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New drone exploit - instapops everything

First post First post
Author
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#61 - 2013-12-28 14:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Logan Revelore
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad


It seems they forgot to add a sanity check in some of the damage code. Sanity checks can cover and patch a lot of bad code, but in ideal circumstances you shouldn't need them, but in this case it would be pretty simple to just add a sanity check, and if it's detected that a "Wasp II" shouldn't do -11000 damage or 20000 damage for that matter, then recalculate the damage.

But yes, not using unsigned in this part of the code would, imo, be bad coding. But that's not necessarily what's going on here.

It could also be a memory bug, simply fetching the damage from the wrong memAddress, again, a sanity check would solve such a problem.

Trolls aside, as others have said, this is an important bug that needs to be addressed. I'd say it's a rank B bug.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#62 - 2013-12-28 14:33:39 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad


It seems they forgot to add a sanity check in some of the damage code. Sanity checks can cover and patch a lot of bad code, but in ideal circumstances you shouldn't need them, but in this case it would be pretty simple to just add a sanity check, and if it's detected that a "Wasp II" shouldn't do -11000 damage or 20000 damage for that matter, then recalculate the damage.

But yes, not using unsigned in this part of the code would, imo, be bad coding. But that's not necessarily what's going on here.

It could also be a memory bug, simply fetching the damage from the wrong memAddress, again, a sanity check would solve such a problem.

Trolls aside, as others have said, this is an important bug that needs to be addressed. I'd say it's a rank B bug.



Let's not rule out that a pointer to a variable got nuked and when assigned out of the tail end came up long int by default.


Raise your hands if you ever got impaled on your own pointer math in a program. o/

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#63 - 2013-12-28 14:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Found the other post regarding an archon pilot that got alpha'd. Someone said it had to do with refittings.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3836646#post3836646

Yaay!!!!

SPUNKMUNKY
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-12-28 15:39:17 UTC
I was there he was refitting.

Do not reimburse. This clown is trying to exploit CCP into giving him back his dread.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#65 - 2013-12-28 15:45:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad

No, because a long int (same data type they use for Dscan distance) allows values from -2147483648 to 2147483647. The issue here isn't integer overflow.


I don't think we can reasonably rule this out as the cause based on the size of the hit. It could very well be an overflow that happens earlier in the calculation.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
It could possibly be this.

If I have 300 ehp and I get hit by 1000 wrecking hit I get my damage hit as 300 ehp I think.

So if I'm refitting with a mobile depot, and I have a damage control, I have to turn it off to refit, damage control on a dread gives 300k ehp on structure. So 200k goes to 500k, perhaps 500k goes to -300k from 200k + hull damage already taken. Could it be that somehow turning off the DCU gives a negative structure amount, like -21000 and the next hit wether its 1 dps or 1000 dps kills you and the calculation is then -21000 similiar to how the 1000 dps coverts to the remaining hp required to hit zero?


I doubt very much the game's coding relies on "EHP" which is an artificial player construct used for comparison purposes. In practice it would be much more straightforward to just consider a hit, apply damage reduction based on resistances, and subtract hitpoints.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

SPUNKMUNKY
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-12-28 16:03:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SPUNKMUNKY
Messoroz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ACTUALLY:

The one thing in common with this and the other incident is that both victims were refitting at the time.
It's possible that the drone hit you at the exact moment that the server recalculated your ship's resistances, etc. and as a result it did way more damage than it was supposed to.



There was no way the dread could refit. It was hostile and neutral to every carrier on field. In fact it was in the process of murdering said carriers.


Also if you noticed, it was a WASP that did 20k damage. A single wasp can never ever do 20k damage, regardless if the ship has 0% resistances or not.



DO NOT REIMBURSE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRKhWX8d_c&feature=youtu.be 12:11 You can clearly see that there are mobile depots on the field, he even scrolls over one.

This guy is lying thus he is trying to exploit ccp for a new dread. Ban his account.

http://imgur.com/ZC2Daf0

Added a screen shot incase his buddies try to take down the video.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-12-28 17:12:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Magna Mortem wrote:
I believe you. People are don't even get that they don't get you.

I wouldn't be inclined to believe him except for two things. First of all, this isn't the first person to complain about this exact bug. Second of all, the previous person who complained about this had a video showing their ship (I believe it was an Archon) from a third-person perspective losing structure at a slow but steady pace, but then instantly exploding at about 50%. No titans were on field or on that killmail.

I'll have to find that thread.
I just reread my post and I have no idea what I was typing...
Zungen
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2013-12-28 17:15:42 UTC
You were going to die to my doomsday anyways :P
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-12-28 17:18:40 UTC
I love how I'm not the only sane poster in this thread, besides that "are" that somehow sneaked in. Thanks mates!
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#70 - 2013-12-28 17:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisisan
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ACTUALLY:

The one thing in common with this and the other incident is that both victims were refitting at the time.
It's possible that the drone hit you at the exact moment that the server recalculated your ship's resistances, etc. and as a result it did way more damage than it was supposed to.



There was no way the dread could refit. It was hostile and neutral to every carrier on field. In fact it was in the process of murdering said carriers.


Also if you noticed, it was a WASP that did 20k damage. A single wasp can never ever do 20k damage, regardless if the ship has 0% resistances or not.



DO NOT REIMBURSE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRKhWX8d_c&feature=youtu.be 12:11 You can clearly see that there are mobile depots on the field, he even scrolls over one.

This guy is lying thus he is trying to exploit ccp for a new dread. Ban his account.

http://imgur.com/ZC2Daf0

Added a screen shot incase his buddies try to take down the video.



Jesus dude, calm down. You guys lost 4 of your carriers, get over it. First, I think it's established that the rev was refitting. OP was mistaken. Given that OP is not the rev pilot, that's forgivable. It also means that the guy posting has no rev to get back. And given that the rev pilot, even more than most WHers, is rich as ****, this really is not about getting a dread back for free. Not that I would expect rational thought to have any kind of impact on a on someone apparently calling for a person to be banned for reporting a bug/exploit?

The issue here, and it is a reasonable one, is that a handful of Wasps should not, mathematically, be able to alpha a dread through 10-15% armor and all his structure. Whether this had something to do with refitting or not matters only in so far as it helps to identify where the bug occurred. It does not de-legitimize the complaint. There is clearly something wonky going on, and it needs to be addressed by CCP. And it needs to be done publicly, because CCP (as much as I love their hard work) have a bad habit of taking private reports of things that are not every day events and going "Meh, too hard, back to designing new eye candy..." and ignoring it until a titan gets killed or a R&K video gets made and everyone learns about it.

It was probably not done intentionally, that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be fixed. That said, they very likely could have been your Wasps, so maybe the level of shouting you are doing indicates it was intentional? Because if it was, if you in some way intentionally exploited a bug you knew about, then that would be a ban worthy offense. But a goon would never intentionally exploit a bug for personal gain would they?

CCP gave us mobile depots, expecting them to be used in exactly this way. There is no indication that they intentionally came with an insta-random-self-destruct button.
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#71 - 2013-12-28 17:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
I was there he was refitting.

Do not reimburse. This clown is trying to exploit CCP into giving him back his dread.


No, we just want a fifth Goon Thanatos killmail, if goons are happy to provide we will retract the petition.

Zungen wrote:
You were going to die to my doomsday anyways :P


BUT we would've had a fifth thanny KM!

The rev was going to die eventually, duh, anyone with half a brain can see that...but that sweet sweet fifth thanatos kill slipped from our grasp because someone at ccp went all :CCP:
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#72 - 2013-12-28 17:34:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jess Tanner
Tisisan wrote:
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ACTUALLY:

The one thing in common with this and the other incident is that both victims were refitting at the time.
It's possible that the drone hit you at the exact moment that the server recalculated your ship's resistances, etc. and as a result it did way more damage than it was supposed to.



There was no way the dread could refit. It was hostile and neutral to every carrier on field. In fact it was in the process of murdering said carriers.


Also if you noticed, it was a WASP that did 20k damage. A single wasp can never ever do 20k damage, regardless if the ship has 0% resistances or not.



DO NOT REIMBURSE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRKhWX8d_c&feature=youtu.be 12:11 You can clearly see that there are mobile depots on the field, he even scrolls over one.

This guy is lying thus he is trying to exploit ccp for a new dread. Ban his account.

http://imgur.com/ZC2Daf0

Added a screen shot incase his buddies try to take down the video.



Jesus dude, calm down. You guys lost 4 of your carriers, get over it. First, I think it's established that the rev was refitting. OP was mistaken. Given that OP is not the rev pilot, that's forgivable. It also means that the guy posting has no rev to get back. And given that the rev pilot, even more than most WHers, is rich as ****, this really is not about getting a dread back for free. Not that I would expect rational thought to have any kind of impact on a on someone apparently calling for a person to be banned for reporting a bug/exploit?

The issue here, and it is a reasonable one, is that a handful of Wasps should not, mathematically, be able to alpha a dread through 10-15% armor and all his structure. Whether this had something to do with refitting or not matters only in so far as it helps to identify where the bug occurred. It does not de-legitimize the complaint. There is clearly something wonky going on, and it needs to be addressed by CCP. And it needs to be done publicly, because CCP (as much as I love their hard work) have a bad habit of taking private reports of things that are not every day events and going "Meh, too hard, back to designing new eye candy..." and ignoring it until a titan gets killed or a R&K video gets made and everyone learns about it.

It was probably not done intentionally, that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be fixed. That said, they very likely could have been your Wasps, so maybe the level of shouting you are doing indicates it was intentional? Because if it was, if you in some way intentionally exploited a bug you knew about, then that would be a ban worthy offense. But a goon would never intentionally exploit a bug for personal gain would they?

CCP gave us mobile depots, expecting them to be used in exactly this way. There is no indication that they intentionally came with an insta-random-self-destruct button.


Also if memory serves, which it usually never does but I digress, the Rev pilot was dropping heat sinks for addition tank. The whole 40 structure HP shouldn't have mattered since he was still in armor when he 'xploded.

All that however doesn't explain the clearly goon lead exploit for drone damage, as evidenced by goon response to this thread. Tinfoil hat time.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#73 - 2013-12-28 17:41:10 UTC
Tisisan wrote:


***SNIP***

CCP gave us mobile depots, expecting them to be used in exactly this way. There is no indication that they intentionally came with an insta-random-self-destruct button.


You are correct that CCP gave us mobile depots for exactly that reason, however assuming that CCP actually knows what's happening in the underlying code seems ...questionable.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#74 - 2013-12-28 17:53:52 UTC
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
I was there he was refitting.

Do not reimburse. This clown is trying to exploit CCP into giving him back his dread.


A wasp cannot do 20k damage on a refitting dread. A wasp cannot do 20k damage to anything.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-12-28 18:00:36 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
Saltire wrote:
Novice coder here.

Do you think the negative damage values are allowed because whoever wrote the code that controls drones/damage calculator used a regular integer instead of an unsigned int?

I can only hack the Gibson in 13 parsecs Sad


It seems they forgot to add a sanity check in some of the damage code. Sanity checks can cover and patch a lot of bad code, but in ideal circumstances you shouldn't need them, but in this case it would be pretty simple to just add a sanity check, and if it's detected that a "Wasp II" shouldn't do -11000 damage or 20000 damage for that matter, then recalculate the damage.

But yes, not using unsigned in this part of the code would, imo, be bad coding. But that's not necessarily what's going on here.

It could also be a memory bug, simply fetching the damage from the wrong memAddress, again, a sanity check would solve such a problem.

Trolls aside, as others have said, this is an important bug that needs to be addressed. I'd say it's a rank B bug.


yes please, sanity checks in the eve code. i mean, load is not an issue here, right ?
Qweasdy
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#76 - 2013-12-28 18:17:00 UTC
Ok so I've put a bit of thought into this one and have came up with the possible reason for it.

So everyone knows big fights are generally speaking too much for the server to handle and over the years CCP has been trying to reduce the server load through various things such as tidi. If I recall correctly in a presentation at fanfest or a devblog a few years ago they mentioned that one of the things they'd been doing is slicing non essential processes off of the main server thread to lighten the load.

This I believe is the cause of the bug, from what I can tell refitting was one of the processes that was sliced off the main thread onto a concurrent thread. This makes sense as 99% of the time refitting is unlikely to interfere with anything going on in space, however when you start trying to refit in space with either mobile depots or carriers you run the possibility of some of the calculations interfering with variables that are being used by other systems and causing some crazy **** to happen... such as wasp II's blapping a dreadnought...

Issues like this are fairly common in concurrent processing, when variables will essentially overwrite each other and one will be forgotten about entirely, this is why it's so hard to just make TQ multi threaded, crazy **** like this can start to happen if things don't happen in sequential order.

This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon

SPUNKMUNKY
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-12-28 18:55:51 UTC
Ayeson wrote:
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
I was there he was refitting.

Do not reimburse. This clown is trying to exploit CCP into giving him back his dread.


No, we just want a fifth Goon Thanatos killmail, if goons are happy to provide we will retract the petition.

Zungen wrote:
You were going to die to my doomsday anyways :P


BUT we would've had a fifth thanny KM!

The rev was going to die eventually, duh, anyone with half a brain can see that...but that sweet sweet fifth thanatos kill slipped from our grasp because someone at ccp went all :CCP:




Lawl, 5th thanny kill mail. Nice troll. Watch the video and witness your FC stating that reps are holding.

Dead2RattingCarriers
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#78 - 2013-12-28 19:01:17 UTC
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:

Lawl, 5th thanny kill mail. Nice troll. Watch the video and witness your FC stating that reps are holding.

Dead2RattingCarriers


getting reps =/= reps are holding

Critical listening skills, you don't have them.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#79 - 2013-12-28 19:03:00 UTC
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
Ayeson wrote:
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:
I was there he was refitting.

Do not reimburse. This clown is trying to exploit CCP into giving him back his dread.


No, we just want a fifth Goon Thanatos killmail, if goons are happy to provide we will retract the petition.

Zungen wrote:
You were going to die to my doomsday anyways :P


BUT we would've had a fifth thanny KM!

The rev was going to die eventually, duh, anyone with half a brain can see that...but that sweet sweet fifth thanatos kill slipped from our grasp because someone at ccp went all :CCP:




Lawl, 5th thanny kill mail. Nice troll. Watch the video and witness your FC stating that reps are holding.

Dead2RattingCarriers



Yes, Ayeson, damnit. Go listen to the FC you scrub....
SPUNKMUNKY
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-12-28 19:04:46 UTC
Ayeson wrote:
SPUNKMUNKY wrote:

Lawl, 5th thanny kill mail. Nice troll. Watch the video and witness your FC stating that reps are holding.

Dead2RattingCarriers


getting reps =/= reps are holding

Critical listening skills, you don't have them.



Did you even watch the video?

Here let me link it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRKhWX8d_c&feature=youtu.be

and one more time just incase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRKhWX8d_c&feature=youtu.be