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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#121 - 2013-10-16 13:49:38 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
I can safely do L4s solo with one account whenever I want and the session doesn't end with "I wish D-scan had a key-bind"


Post of the day.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#122 - 2013-10-16 13:50:18 UTC
Is this an advertizement for renting a system from the Goons?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#123 - 2013-10-16 13:53:35 UTC
it is a sandbox game so you can do what you like but carebears in null sec should realise that most of the rest of us are just grinding PvE for PLEX or ships and not particularly trying to build a vast space empire. ISK is a means to an end not an end in itself. of course we take the low hanging fruit why woudl we not? whatever i buy with that ISK dies a fiery death at the weekend.

I should be frikkin rich from my mandarin lifestyle in higshec but i don't think i've passed a billion wallet. it gets spent on whatever i had planned that required grinding ISK.

forums.  serious business.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-10-16 13:53:41 UTC
About 4 years ago I sat in on a lecture given to E-Uni by the leader of the IT alliance out of nullsec. He covered a variety of topics including earnings and such.

While you can earn very high income in null, the fact of the matter is that when things go south (wars & such), your income goes away. So you may make a lot for a time then you won't make diddly - sometimes for weeks on end.

As such he said that working highsec was a better way to earn. it's reliable and steady income that you can do any time you feel like it and if things get ugly, at the worst, you dump out to an NPC corp to keep rolling vs stuck waiting in a station or the like.

There is more to earning than just spike income - there is how much you can rely upon that income source and null... it tends to be reliable "enough" most of the time but when it gets rough -- you aren't earning squat.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#125 - 2013-10-16 13:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hypercake Mix wrote:
I can safely do L4s solo with one account whenever I want and the session doesn't end with "I wish D-scan had a key-bind"


Post of the day.


There are a shtload of empty systems where you dont need to use a dscan ;-)

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#126 - 2013-10-16 14:01:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
i only addressed his misconception there as it is both a widespread and appalling mantra amongst Eve-O forum warriors. the point is that people complaining about people dropping corp, logging out or whatever way to 'dodge wars' haven't really grasped what wars are for, which is attacking a corporate entity. if people drop corp then you're achieving your aim, if you realised what it was in the first place.


Yeah, no. I'm not a dojo challenger, I am not there to take the sign above their door so they can't use it again. (the analogy being, they drop corp)

I am there to kill them. Plan and simple, if I wardec someone, I want kills.

There exists a broken mechanism that allows them to avoid any and all combat they do not choose to engage in(suicide ganking aside). That goes against the fundamental philosophy of EVE.

So, basically, I still do not understand why you, or anyone, thinks they should be able to just drop corp to avoid wardecs. Let alone how you claim to justify the abuse of this mechanic on a nigh constant basis.


well it's simple. your corpmates are noobs, spanners or carebears and you need to get out ASAP because you're going to fight a fleet on your own for the next week.

which is why i have my own corp until i can get a vouch for a decent one.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#127 - 2013-10-16 14:07:01 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


well it's simple. your corpmates are noobs, spanners or carebears and you need to get out ASAP because you're going to fight a fleet on your own for the next week.

which is why i have my own corp until i can get a vouch for a decent one.


I'd question the judgement of someone who ended up in a corp like that in the first place. That action, also, should have consequences. Nothing more than a couple of killrights, of course, but even so.

I mean, if you actually let wardecs have a serious impact on people (that is, the only people it has impact on now are people who are bound and determined to defend their corp name), then it helps eliminate those pointless corporations from the game, rather than just letting them drop at no cost to themselves and reform some new can-advertisement spamming 5 man nublet corp over and over again.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#128 - 2013-10-16 14:08:59 UTC
Mocam wrote:
About 4 years ago I sat in on a lecture given to E-Uni by the leader of the IT alliance out of nullsec. He covered a variety of topics including earnings and such.

While you can earn very high income in null, the fact of the matter is that when things go south (wars & such), your income goes away. So you may make a lot for a time then you won't make diddly - sometimes for weeks on end.

As such he said that working highsec was a better way to earn. it's reliable and steady income that you can do any time you feel like it and if things get ugly, at the worst, you dump out to an NPC corp to keep rolling vs stuck waiting in a station or the like.

There is more to earning than just spike income - there is how much you can rely upon that income source and null... it tends to be reliable "enough" most of the time but when it gets rough -- you aren't earning squat.


This post illustrates the actual reality of the situation. I've never had Goons kick me out of my lvl 4 mission base lol, but I have been kicked out of SOV null more times than i can remember.

Of course I sometimes ninja rat, but the point is that no one can take High sec from me, not even with a wardec. Sure, NPC null is simlar, but you have to still deal with things like bubbles and trying to mission in a nullified tech3 is doable but not optimal.

This is why a LOT of null sec folks have high sec alts. When you are trying to keep the isk flowing to keep PVPing, disrutions don't just cost money, they cost you fun time. So the slightly lower isk of high sec (except incursions which is better isk) is acceptable because you can just keep doing it.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-10-16 14:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


well it's simple. your corpmates are noobs, spanners or carebears and you need to get out ASAP because you're going to fight a fleet on your own for the next week.

which is why i have my own corp until i can get a vouch for a decent one.


I'd question the judgement of someone who ended up in a corp like that in the first place. That action, also, should have consequences. Nothing more than a couple of killrights, of course, but even so.

I mean, if you actually let wardecs have a serious impact on people (that is, the only people it has impact on now are people who are bound and determined to defend their corp name), then it helps eliminate those pointless corporations from the game, rather than just letting them drop at no cost to themselves and reform some new can-advertisement spamming 5 man nublet corp over and over again.


who cares, you're supposed to do it to get rid of their starbases and soon their POCOs. if they have no assets they're just a chat channel.

forums.  serious business.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#130 - 2013-10-16 14:18:27 UTC
Some reality to the situation:

1. Run first two stages of FSP
2. Spend fuel and time getting capital to final stage
3. Loot 100m worth of OSE

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of _____
2. Run second room
3. No faction spawn, shoot stuff, no escalation

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of ______
2. Run second room
3. Faction Spawn! Yay! Dropped....a tag
4. Escalation Yay!
5. Fly to first escalation
6. Run first esc
7. No faction spawn, oh well on to next one!
8. Fly to second esc
9. Run second esc
10. A faction spawn!! Dropped....tags.
11. Well, at least it escalated, right?
12. Fly to third escalation, by now you are in some NPC region, drone lands, or jove space.
13. Run third (final this time) esc
14. Barely tank it, but as expected all is well, 3 hours later.
15. Loot...100m OSE. Or a 70m hardener.


Methinks you haven't completed enough exploration to truly see the pattern. It is essentially make-work gambling, and the payouts are great, if you get them. When you don't, you sincerely wish you had spent the time doing just about anything else. No the bounties are not that good, if people even ran exploration for the bounties.

Great you had some luck but don't get peoples' hopes up expecting 1b/hour because that's not the reality.

On the other hand, I absolutely love this thread, since it may bring juicy loot pinatas like that ishtar into a region near me!!

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#131 - 2013-10-16 14:19:28 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


well it's simple. your corpmates are noobs, spanners or carebears and you need to get out ASAP because you're going to fight a fleet on your own for the next week.

which is why i have my own corp until i can get a vouch for a decent one.


I'd question the judgement of someone who ended up in a corp like that in the first place. That action, also, should have consequences. Nothing more than a couple of killrights, of course, but even so.

I mean, if you actually let wardecs have a serious impact on people (that is, the only people it has impact on now are people who are bound and determined to defend their corp name), then it helps eliminate those pointless corporations from the game, rather than just letting them drop at no cost to themselves and reform some new can-advertisement spamming 5 man nublet corp over and over again.


who cares, you're supposed to do it to get rid of their starbases and soon their POCOs. if they have no assets they're just a chat channel.


You seem to think that I need to have a reason to attack them, or that they need to have some assets worth attacking, etc.

No.

People don't do it for economic reasons(at least not right now). They do it to kill people. I don't care if all they are is a chat channel. I want to shoot at them. But because the method for me to do that is broken, then it does not matter what my intentions are, because they can just dodge it and avoid any PvP at all unless I suicide gank them. In which, my targets are considerably constrained.

I don't care if they aren't bothering me, or if they have any assets worth attacking, or whatever. Why should they be allowed to avoid PvP in a game like EVE?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#132 - 2013-10-16 14:23:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


well it's simple. your corpmates are noobs, spanners or carebears and you need to get out ASAP because you're going to fight a fleet on your own for the next week.

which is why i have my own corp until i can get a vouch for a decent one.


I'd question the judgement of someone who ended up in a corp like that in the first place. That action, also, should have consequences. Nothing more than a couple of killrights, of course, but even so.

I mean, if you actually let wardecs have a serious impact on people (that is, the only people it has impact on now are people who are bound and determined to defend their corp name), then it helps eliminate those pointless corporations from the game, rather than just letting them drop at no cost to themselves and reform some new can-advertisement spamming 5 man nublet corp over and over again.


who cares, you're supposed to do it to get rid of their starbases and soon their POCOs. if they have no assets they're just a chat channel.


You seem to think that I need to have a reason to attack them, or that they need to have some assets worth attacking, etc.

No.

People don't do it for economic reasons(at least not right now). They do it to kill people. I don't care if all they are is a chat channel. I want to shoot at them. But because the method for me to do that is broken, then it does not matter what my intentions are, because they can just dodge it and avoid any PvP at all unless I suicide gank them. In which, my targets are considerably constrained.

I don't care if they aren't bothering me, or if they have any assets worth attacking, or whatever. Why should they be allowed to avoid PvP in a game like EVE?


look man, if you can't find PvP in a PvP oriented MMO then it might be time to hit that button. i'll gladly accept your stuffs.

i mean really, if you're looking to grief unexperienced players or carebears then that's a good reason why no.

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#133 - 2013-10-16 14:30:00 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


look man, if you can't find PvP in a PvP oriented MMO then it might be time to hit that button. i'll gladly accept your stuffs.

i mean really, if you're looking to grief unexperienced players or carebears then that's a good reason why no.


So, are we really playing the e-honor card? "go fight people who can fight back"?

You even just told me that it's a PvP oriented MMO, right? So why are a certain subset of players able to make themselves immune to PvP? They're not special, the entirety of highsec is not the noob area. And if we're going to treat it like it is, then we do in fact need to devastate their ability to make money there to encourage them to leave and play the real game.

Because you don't get it both ways.

Also, since when is "because I can" not a good enough reason in a videogame?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ryder 'ook
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2013-10-16 14:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryder 'ook
+1 to post No. 132


Your attitude alone is the reason why.

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#135 - 2013-10-16 14:32:05 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Some reality to the situation:

1. Run first two stages of FSP
2. Spend fuel and time getting capital to final stage
3. Loot 100m worth of OSE

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of _____
2. Run second room
3. No faction spawn, shoot stuff, no escalation

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of ______
2. Run second room
3. Faction Spawn! Yay! Dropped....a tag
4. Escalation Yay!
5. Fly to first escalation
6. Run first esc
7. No faction spawn, oh well on to next one!
8. Fly to second esc
9. Run second esc
10. A faction spawn!! Dropped....tags.
11. Well, at least it escalated, right?
12. Fly to third escalation, by now you are in some NPC region, drone lands, or jove space.
13. Run third (final this time) esc
14. Barely tank it, but as expected all is well, 3 hours later.
15. Loot...100m OSE. Or a 70m hardener.


Methinks you haven't completed enough exploration to truly see the pattern. It is essentially make-work gambling, and the payouts are great, if you get them. When you don't, you sincerely wish you had spent the time doing just about anything else. No the bounties are not that good, if people even ran exploration for the bounties.

Great you had some luck but don't get peoples' hopes up expecting 1b/hour because that's not the reality.

On the other hand, I absolutely love this thread, since it may bring juicy loot pinatas like that ishtar into a region near me!!



This one made me laugh. Good post. Reminds me of why I don't do unrated plexes and also why I dislike that CCP took an unrated plex and turned it into "the 9/10" (Fleet Staging Point).

We're talking about the same issue in the Missions and complexes section. it's a bit funny to see one guy talking about his 1 bil an hour and others saying that the same plexes have been nerfed somehow.

I make OK isk from exploration, but it's so hit or miss that I usually stick to farming anomalies and doing the occasional escalation. Even still, it's way easier to generate the same or even more isk in high sec.

The OP doesn't understand this, like most prejudiced against null, he for some reason thinks that just jumping into null gifts you with so much loot and isk that you can't carry it all, when everyone with any sense knows that it just doesn't work that way (if it did, everyone would be doing it).
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-10-16 14:34:20 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Some reality to the situation:

1. Run first two stages of FSP
2. Spend fuel and time getting capital to final stage
3. Loot 100m worth of OSE

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of _____
2. Run second room
3. No faction spawn, shoot stuff, no escalation

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of ______
2. Run second room
3. Faction Spawn! Yay! Dropped....a tag
4. Escalation Yay!
5. Fly to first escalation
6. Run first esc
7. No faction spawn, oh well on to next one!
8. Fly to second esc
9. Run second esc
10. A faction spawn!! Dropped....tags.
11. Well, at least it escalated, right?
12. Fly to third escalation, by now you are in some NPC region, drone lands, or jove space.
13. Run third (final this time) esc
14. Barely tank it, but as expected all is well, 3 hours later.
15. Loot...100m OSE. Or a 70m hardener.


Methinks you haven't completed enough exploration to truly see the pattern. It is essentially make-work gambling, and the payouts are great, if you get them. When you don't, you sincerely wish you had spent the time doing just about anything else. No the bounties are not that good, if people even ran exploration for the bounties.

Great you had some luck but don't get peoples' hopes up expecting 1b/hour because that's not the reality.

On the other hand, I absolutely love this thread, since it may bring juicy loot pinatas like that ishtar into a region near me!!



Only thing missing is the two hours setting up cynos all over three regions to chase that escalation....and40 mil or so in topes.

.....hope you have a lot of room to roam around because its a real ***** trying to work out of cloaked carrier because you don't have a POS in system.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-10-16 14:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
Another obvious factor is the sheer amount of Guristas space. So, if you're running anything there, and you happen to chance across a loot drop...well chances are those nice shinies are a dime a dozen in jita.

I don't know how many (dozens? hundreds?) of times I've wished that hardener was a DG invuln, just to get another thermic hardener for the pile.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#138 - 2013-10-16 14:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


look man, if you can't find PvP in a PvP oriented MMO then it might be time to hit that button. i'll gladly accept your stuffs.

i mean really, if you're looking to grief unexperienced players or carebears then that's a good reason why no.


So, are we really playing the e-honor card? "go fight people who can fight back"?

You even just told me that it's a PvP oriented MMO, right? So why are a certain subset of players able to make themselves immune to PvP? They're not special, the entirety of highsec is not the noob area. And if we're going to treat it like it is, then we do in fact need to devastate their ability to make money there to encourage them to leave and play the real game.

Because you don't get it both ways.

Also, since when is "because I can" not a good enough reason in a videogame?


i didn't seem to be immune to PvP last week.

in fact i'm pretty sure they hung my space goolies on their space mantlepiece and they weren't kind enough to declare war on the previous day.

and yes i think you probably do want to shoot those who can't or won't defend themselves as otherwise you would obviously go to low/null and enjoy being schooled by real PvPers as i am. Blink

forums.  serious business.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-10-16 14:42:59 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

As it is now, I can choose 120-150 mil an hour with a machariel in null sec where I have to react to threats, or 180 mil (120 mil isk plus LP selling at 1.1k isk per CONCORD LP) an hour in high sec doing HQ sites in a shiney incursion fleet. That's heavily broken.

completely agree: remove incursions from high-sec and be done with all whine.



I've heard that only 2 or 3 Low Sec Incursions have ever been completed, and absolutely not one ever in Null.

Yeah....that sure sounds appealing.

as long as people measure high-sec income by incursions i don't care if people will run it somewhere outside of high-sec or just abandon. I agree - this is very bad "pretty average high-sec income". Remove it. And we'll be fine

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#140 - 2013-10-16 14:43:27 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

and yes i think you probably do want to shoot those who can't or won't defend themselves as otherwise you would obviously go to low/null and enjoy being schooled by real PvPers as i am. Blink


I dunno, when in null you run the risk of finding someone mining or plexing or running anoms. Then since they "can't defend themselves" you have to fly all the way back with no kills.

Bushido.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.