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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping
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NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#361 - 2013-09-25 13:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I'll explain why afk timers hurt active players: Because they then, by definition, mean that anyone who is in local is active. A player cannot pretend to be afk and can not trick anyone using that basis because the mechanics would definitively prove that is wrong. You are removing the ability for active players to try and trick people into think they aren't a threat when they are, and vice versa - tricking them into thinking they are a threat when they aren't.

You have yet to give a good reason as to why this would be needed. If an AFK player is no threat, then why do you need to have them removed?

And you think that's a fair way to go by tricking players into many things while you can fap to a p*rn movie while not even playing or not even by being with your computer at all?

You don't even have to be at home to abuse this system.

If you want to trick players, then play the game like everyone else. It's not hard to see the reasons on this. Only idiots would not.

Again, no one will be affected by an afk timer except for those who are not playing EVE. And those who are not playing EVE should not be able to trick others or to gain any advantages over others who are playing.If you want to gain advantages and trick players, then you have to PLAY the game.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#362 - 2013-09-25 13:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
EVE is an MMO and so is WoW. They both are the same there. And why wouldn't it work for EVE?

Explain.

And why would an afk timer affect anyone who is playing EVE actively?

Explain.

And if it doesn't affect any active players, then why shouldn't we get it?

Haha, that answer is nothing more than a troll. Yes he lost his ship to an ACTIVE player witch isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about those who are not at their computers.

An AFK timer doesn't affect ANYONE except for those who aren't playing EVE.

Why shouldn't we get that when it actually works without hurting anyone who are actively playing EVE?

Why would it hurt you when you aren't even at the computer?

Answer me this.


Oh you are tiresome...searching for previous posts on this as typing it all again is a PITA:

EVE Online is a completely different genre, learning, style, game fit to WoW. The only similarity is that they are both MMO's.

And why would an afk timer affect anyone who is playing EVE actively?

This: Sitting perched above star gates logging traffic reports for hours\possibly days while cloaked and not AFK except to the outside world they might have appeared to be AFK as according to some people someone is AFK cloaked when they, the "hunter", are flying to every celestial and D-Scanning and never finding a ship and thus that person MUST BE, ABSOLUTELY MUST BE AFK CLOAKED!

So because I don't touch my keyboard or mouse for what 15 mins? 30 mins? I'm forcibly logged from the server? Ridiculous, what if I'm logged in and awaiting a cyno up to jump but that guys delayed so I'm sat waiting for my other buddies to form up chatting on TS for a few hours...am I AFK for too long in your eyes or am I just not moving?

Exactly, you don't know and would never know.

So now, say you have your AFK Kicker and I've been logged from my perch for doing what I spent RL time training for and money on a Cov-Ops frigate with it's paper-thin tank. Now I log back in and I'm e-warped to where I was sat all nicely cloaked up again...only I have to get my cloak on before I land on grid or whoever is there will see me and thus I will lose the element of surprise that I am supposed to have been afforded with my training and specialised equipment and hull.

Couple that with the fact that when I clicked on my character I was immediately loaded on the Pilot Roster in LOCAL and you know I'm in there somewhere so you've now hit D-Scan and know what ship I'm in before I have even got my UI up.

And you just broke Cov-Ops because you don't like the fear of the unknown.

Wall of text.

EVE Online (MMO) is like a Koenigsegg Agera R while WoW (MMO) is a Toyota Yaris. Both are cars (the same thing), but they are just different types of cars in the same way as EVE Online and WoW are MMO's but are different types of MMO's.

And to the thing that you can get seen if you have to log back in and warp back to your positions. Then don't go afk in space then. Play the game like everyone else if you don't want to be seen.

You still haven't answered my questions on why an afk timer hurts you when you don't play EVE and why we shouldn't have it?


You say "Wall of text" yet fail to read the answer you seek. RTFS you idiot! Good god, I'm in the mood just to find you and AFK Cloak you to death just for the idiotic trolling comments you are now posting.

Next you'll be all "Come at me bro!"

If you can't be arsed to read the answers then GTFO and STFU. I'm not wasting my time replying in a constructive manner when you can't be arsed reading and just troll.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#363 - 2013-09-25 13:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
You say "Wall of text" yet fail to read the answer you seek. RTFS you idiot! Good god, I'm in the mood just to find you and AFK Cloak you to death just for the idiotic trolling comments you are now posting.

Next you'll be all "Come at me bro!"

If you can't be arsed to read the answers then GTFO and STFU. I'm not wasting my time replying in an constructive manner when you can't be arsed reading and just troll.

What you said is not the answers i'm asking after.

I'm asking, WHY should YOU who are NOT playing EVE be able to trick peoples minds and gain advantages by not even be at your computer?

Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online game and why would be fair for those who actually are playing EVE?

Answer me this.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#364 - 2013-09-25 13:27:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
You say "Wall of text" yet fail to read the answer you seek. RTFS you idiot! Good god, I'm in the mood just to find you and AFK Cloak you to death just for the idiotic trolling comments you are now posting.

Next you'll be all "Come at me bro!"

If you can't be arsed to read the answers then GTFO and STFU. I'm not wasting my time replying in an constructive manner when you can't be arsed reading and just troll.

What you said is not the answers i'm asking after.

I'm asking WHY should you who are not playing EVE be able to trick peoples minds and gain advantages by not even be at your computer?

Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online gameand fair for those who actually are playing EVE?

Answer me this.


RTFS yet again FFS! It's all there in white letters. Define your version of AFK for me...

In case you missed it both time:

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sitting perched above star gates logging traffic reports for hours\possibly days while cloaked and not AFK except to the outside world they might have appeared to be AFK as according to some people someone is AFK cloaked when they, the "hunter", are flying to every celestial and D-Scanning and never finding a ship and thus that person MUST BE, ABSOLUTELY MUST BE AFK CLOAKED!

So because I don't touch my keyboard or mouse for what 15 mins? 30 mins? I'm forcibly logged from the server?Ridiculous, what if I'm logged in and awaiting a cyno up to jump but that guys delayed so I'm sat waiting for my other buddies to form up chatting on TS for a few hours...am I AFK for too long in your eyes or am I just not moving?


EDIT:

And abuse? Who is abusing the game? If anyone is absuing anything it is you who are abusing the forum with this argument that you want less risk and want to know if that person in Local is active. If not you want them logged from the server so that you don't have to fear that they might be..possibly because you are too lazy or fearful of damaging your ISK\Hour rate.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#365 - 2013-09-25 13:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
NightmareX wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I'll explain why afk timers hurt active players: Because they then, by definition, mean that anyone who is in local is active. A player cannot pretend to be afk and can not trick anyone using that basis because the mechanics would definitively prove that is wrong. You are removing the ability for active players to try and trick people into think they aren't a threat when they are, and vice versa - tricking them into thinking they are a threat when they aren't.

You have yet to give a good reason as to why this would be needed. If an AFK player is no threat, then why do you need to have them removed?

And you think that's a fair way to go by tricking players into many things while you can fap to a p*rn movie while not even playing or not even by being with your computer at all?

You don't even have to be at home to abuse this system.

If you want to trick players, then play the game like everyone else. It's not hard to see the reasons on this. Only idiots would not.

Again, no one will be affected by an afk timer except for those who are not playing EVE. And those who are not playing EVE should not be able to trick others or to gain any advantages over others who are playing.If you want to gain advantages and trick players, then you have to PLAY the game.


The point, my dense little friend, is that such a timer would prevent ACTIVE players from tricking people into thinking they were AFK. The entire reason this strategy exists is so that someone will think you are afk when you actually arent. This would no longer be possible. That means ACTIVE players wouldn't be able to do certain stuff anymore.

So your continued protests that this would only affect those who are "not playing eve" is demonstrably false. It affects those who are active too - it provides guaranteed intel about them to other players, and they cannot influence or misrepresent themselves.

Why are you punishing active players, bro?
Anthar Thebess
#366 - 2013-09-25 13:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Again afk camper thread.
I love arguments raised by both sides.

Lets satisfy both of them. Twisted
Each cloaking device will have two modes.

- Normal mode ( the way it works now ) - the only change is that if cloaked player don't change grid every 15 minutes it can be probed by a person on max skills + proper implant set.

- Full Cloack Mode - can be activated if there is any thing else on grid.
- in this mode you are totally unprobable , and you loose all timers on your character ( pvp timer, pve timer)
- you cannot use probes
- you cannot use dscan
- local for you is not updated
- you are not seen on local as a normal player - but just some generic icon.
- exiting full cloak mode takes 3min ( and after this 3 min you can again warp , probe, scan) , and this operation instantly changes your icon on local , and you are not uncloaking after this 3 min but entering normal mode.


Both sides satisfied.
This will change nothing for active cloak hunters, and for all the rest adult people that constantly walk away from PC and cloak ( like me ) allow to keep current state of free play.

Both sides are right - but this will keep fire up.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#367 - 2013-09-25 13:32:56 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
You say "Wall of text" yet fail to read the answer you seek. RTFS you idiot! Good god, I'm in the mood just to find you and AFK Cloak you to death just for the idiotic trolling comments you are now posting.

Next you'll be all "Come at me bro!"

If you can't be arsed to read the answers then GTFO and STFU. I'm not wasting my time replying in an constructive manner when you can't be arsed reading and just troll.

What you said is not the answers i'm asking after.

I'm asking WHY should you who are not playing EVE be able to trick peoples minds and gain advantages by not even be at your computer?

Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online gameand fair for those who actually are playing EVE?

Answer me this.


RTFS yet again FFS! It's all there in white letters. Define your version of AFK for me...

In case you missed it both time:

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sitting perched above star gates logging traffic reports for hours\possibly days while cloaked and not AFK except to the outside world they might have appeared to be AFK as according to some people someone is AFK cloaked when they, the "hunter", are flying to every celestial and D-Scanning and never finding a ship and thus that person MUST BE, ABSOLUTELY MUST BE AFK CLOAKED!

So because I don't touch my keyboard or mouse for what 15 mins? 30 mins? I'm forcibly logged from the server?Ridiculous, what if I'm logged in and awaiting a cyno up to jump but that guys delayed so I'm sat waiting for my other buddies to form up chatting on TS for a few hours...am I AFK for too long in your eyes or am I just not moving?

Still doesn't answer why you can't make sure to be active every 30 / 60 mins. This is not a problems in any ways.

Yes it's ridiculous to you, because you are lazy and you know you can abuse the game this way and don't want to be active to achieve something.

Make alot of safespots in the system you are in around in different places where you want to log traffic and such and then just make sure to either do something in EVE or just move from safespots to safespots so you don't get kicked out of EVE while you can log the traffics.

It's simple, be active or STFU.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#368 - 2013-09-25 13:35:57 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
You say "Wall of text" yet fail to read the answer you seek. RTFS you idiot! Good god, I'm in the mood just to find you and AFK Cloak you to death just for the idiotic trolling comments you are now posting.

Next you'll be all "Come at me bro!"

If you can't be arsed to read the answers then GTFO and STFU. I'm not wasting my time replying in an constructive manner when you can't be arsed reading and just troll.

What you said is not the answers i'm asking after.

I'm asking WHY should you who are not playing EVE be able to trick peoples minds and gain advantages by not even be at your computer?

Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online gameand fair for those who actually are playing EVE?

Answer me this.


RTFS yet again FFS! It's all there in white letters. Define your version of AFK for me...

In case you missed it both time:

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sitting perched above star gates logging traffic reports for hours\possibly days while cloaked and not AFK except to the outside world they might have appeared to be AFK as according to some people someone is AFK cloaked when they, the "hunter", are flying to every celestial and D-Scanning and never finding a ship and thus that person MUST BE, ABSOLUTELY MUST BE AFK CLOAKED!

So because I don't touch my keyboard or mouse for what 15 mins? 30 mins? I'm forcibly logged from the server?Ridiculous, what if I'm logged in and awaiting a cyno up to jump but that guys delayed so I'm sat waiting for my other buddies to form up chatting on TS for a few hours...am I AFK for too long in your eyes or am I just not moving?

Still doesn't answer why you can't make sure to be active every 30 / 60 mins. This is not a problems in any ways.

Make alot of safespots in the system you are around in different places where you want to log traffic and such and then just make sure to either do something in EVE or just move from safespots to safespots so you don't get kicked out of EVE while you can log the traffics.


Again I have to put in extra effort while you don't have to do anything? I risk not logging someone I may be waiting on going through a gate while you get the safety blanket you require? No. Fit for the appropriate environment.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#369 - 2013-09-25 13:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Again I have to put in extra effort while you don't have to do anything? I risk not logging someone I may be waiting on going through a gate while you get the safety blanket you require? No. Fit for the appropriate environment.

You have to be active and put in effort to achieve something like everyone else have to do.

Plain and simple.

EDIT: By just putting one letter in any of your chats or just pressing on one of the chat windows to take an example, will reset your afk timer back to 30 / 60 mins or whatever it would be. Or it could even be as easy as just alt-tabbing into EVE is enough to reset that timer.

How is that so hard to do?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#370 - 2013-09-25 13:44:56 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Yes it's ridiculous to you, because you are lazy and you know you can abuse the game this way and don't want to be active to achieve something.

It's simple, be active or STFU.


I'm not going to get into a trollfest of insults with you as it's so clear you are so risk averse that you want the person who trained and skilled in Cov-Ops to have to jump through more hoops than you the PVE fitted pilot who doesn't want to damage there ISK\Hour by:

Option:

1) Fitting appropriately
2) Get some PVP corp mates to cover your arse
3) GTFO
4) Dock up
5) Watch Local (you already do I can tell Blink) and react
6) Hit the POS like a b*tch in heat
7) Jump systems
8) Gate Camp the gates
9) Get intel channels and contribute
10) Baiting a hot drop and counter hot-dropping

Maybe you don't have any friends IG, maybe you can't afford to hire mercs or have an alt account and maybe you shouldn't be somewhere you fear one person in a wet paper bag tanked ship that can be instapopped as soon as he does try to affect you.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#371 - 2013-09-25 13:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Again I have to put in extra effort while you don't have to do anything? I risk not logging someone I may be waiting on going through a gate while you get the safety blanket you require? No. Fit for the appropriate environment.

You have to be active and put in effort to achieve something like everyone else have to do.

Plain and simple.

EDIT: By just putting one letter in any of your chats or just pressing on one of the chat windows to take an example, will reset your afk timer back to 30 / 60 mins or whatever it would be. Or it could even be as easy as just alt-tabbing into EVE is enough to reset that timer.

How is that so hard to do?


Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.

EDIT: You have a whole market to choose modules ships hulls from as a non-cloaking pilot but as a Cov-Ops Pilot I am so restricted to what I can fit and with very little tank I am further disadvantaged. I accept this as I have a the ability to cloak and that is the balance I have to accept however you cannot accept that to be able to prevent me from directly affecting you you should fit some modules to counter me should I appear? There's the imbalance that you speak of.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#372 - 2013-09-25 13:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Yes it's ridiculous to you, because you are lazy and you know you can abuse the game this way and don't want to be active to achieve something.

It's simple, be active or STFU.


I'm not going to get into a trollfest of insults with you as it's so clear you are so risk averse that you want the person who trained and skilled in Cov-Ops to have to jump through more hoops than you the PVE fitted pilot who doesn't want to damage there ISK\Hour by:

Option:

1) Fitting appropriately
2) Get some PVP corp mates to cover your arse
3) GTFO
4) Dock up
5) Watch Local (you already do I can tell Blink) and react
6) Hit the POS like a b*tch in heat
7) Jump systems
8) Gate Camp the gates
9) Get intel channels and contribute
10) Baiting a hot drop and counter hot-dropping

Maybe you don't have any friends IG, maybe you can't afford to hire mercs or have an alt account and maybe you shouldn't be somewhere you fear one person in a wet paper bag tanked ship that can be instapopped as soon as he does try to affect you.

When you can't explain what i was asking for earlier, i'm not gonna waste my time with you.

I'm gonna write it down one more time and i hope to see a good explainations on this......

I'm asking, WHY should YOU who are NOT playing EVE be able to trick peoples minds and gain advantages by not even be at your computer while the active players can't trick you or gain advantages at all on you WHILE they are being active?

Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online game this way and why would be fair for those who actually are playing EVE and puts alot of efforts into what they are doing?

Answer me this.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.

EDIT: You have a whole market to choose modules ships hulls from as a non-cloaking pilot but as a Cov-Ops Pilot I am so restricted to what I can fit and with very little tank I am further disadvantaged. I accept this as I have a the ability to cloak and that is the balance I have to accept however you cannot accept that to be able to prevent me from directly affecting you you should fit some modules to counter me should I appear? There's the imbalance that you speak of.

Active means you have to do something INSIDE EVE to let the client know that you are playing it. It's not rocket science to do that.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Anthar Thebess
#373 - 2013-09-25 14:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.


So you just admit, that you are AFK camping others - not nice you are braking EULA and TOS!
Well someone can report you now.
You cannot AFK Camp other players - as this is Griefing.
( That is why we have so many true AFK players and active cloaky hunters )


What are you braking?
http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Quote:

Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#374 - 2013-09-25 14:04:07 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Again I have to put in extra effort while you don't have to do anything? I risk not logging someone I may be waiting on going through a gate while you get the safety blanket you require? No. Fit for the appropriate environment.

You have to be active and put in effort to achieve something like everyone else have to do.

Plain and simple.

EDIT: By just putting one letter in any of your chats or just pressing on one of the chat windows to take an example, will reset your afk timer back to 30 / 60 mins or whatever it would be. Or it could even be as easy as just alt-tabbing into EVE is enough to reset that timer.

How is that so hard to do?


How can I, an active player, manage to convince a resident that I am not a threat and that they can go about their business (at which point I turn out to actually be a threat and catch them)?

Currently, people do this by appearing to be AFK. They're in system so long that people think "they must be afk" and start doing stuff.

With a timer, they would know for certain that I am not afk.

Why are you punishing active players bro, why are you reducing acitve players abilities to play the game and mislead other players (which is a big part of EVE)?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#375 - 2013-09-25 14:04:29 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.


So you just admit, that you are AFK camping others - not nice you are braking EULA and TOS!
Well someone can report you now.
You cannot AFK Camp other players - as this is Griefing.
( That is why we have so many true AFK players and active cloaky hunters )


What are you braking?
http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Quote:

Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

Thank you for showing that.

+1 to you.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#376 - 2013-09-25 14:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Again I have to put in extra effort while you don't have to do anything? I risk not logging someone I may be waiting on going through a gate while you get the safety blanket you require? No. Fit for the appropriate environment.

You have to be active and put in effort to achieve something like everyone else have to do.

Plain and simple.

EDIT: By just putting one letter in any of your chats or just pressing on one of the chat windows to take an example, will reset your afk timer back to 30 / 60 mins or whatever it would be. Or it could even be as easy as just alt-tabbing into EVE is enough to reset that timer.

How is that so hard to do?


How can I, an active player, manage to convince a resident that I am not a threat and that they can go about their business (at which point I turn out to actually be a threat and catch them)?

Currently, people do this by appearing to be AFK. They're in system so long that people think "they must be afk" and start doing stuff.

With a timer, they would know for certain that I am not afk.

Why are you punishing active players bro, why are you reducing acitve players abilities to play the game and mislead other players (which is a big part of EVE)?


No one takes an afk cloaker for afk anyways. So why would they take you for afk?

The point is, as long as you are not playing EVE, you should not harm anyone at all. That's the point you don't seems to graps.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#377 - 2013-09-25 14:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Active means you have to do something INSIDE EVE to let the client know that you are playing it. It's not rocket science to do that.


If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.

If you are mining and activate your lasers there is nothing to say that you are active. Until your cargo hold fills up you could be sat there watching the pretty lights as they bore into the asteroid mesmerised by the sound...you are no longer active and should be logged form the server?

What about the people who dock up in Low Sec ad stay there AFK? Are they abusing the mechanics that the station doesn't expel them when they have been idle for 60 mins? No. That's working as intended

I'm playing EVE, I'm just not playing how you want me to play because it's called a sandbox environment and emergent game play comes about through people playing outside of what other people think is the norm...it's what makes EVE so damn good Smile

NightmareX wrote:
Why do you think this is a fair way to abuse an online game this way and why would be fair for those who actually are playing EVE and puts a lot of efforts into what they are doing?


Again, no-one is abusing an online game. We are using tactics against people who know we are there because a free 0 effort intelligence display channel tells them that we are: Local.

NightmareX wrote:
Answer me this.


Answered.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#378 - 2013-09-25 14:10:17 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.


So you just admit, that you are AFK camping others - not nice you are braking EULA and TOS!
Well someone can report you now.
You cannot AFK Camp other players - as this is Griefing.
( That is why we have so many true AFK players and active cloaky hunters )


What are you braking?
http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Quote:

Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.


I thought you guys were saying that afk players weren't playing the game, and weren't putting in any effort... but the definition of griefing you have there explicitly states it is only when a player devotes an extreme amount of his time... so which is it? Are they not putting in any time or effort, or are they putting in an extreme amount of time and effort? Anti-cloakers can't quite keep their stories straight!

Aside from the time/devotion aspect, it isn't griefing to sit in a system and do nothing. The fact you think it is is hilarious. They cannot do anything while they are cloaked or afk, so they cannot possibly be considered to be denying you anything or ruining your play - they cannot affect your play if they are not playing.

And, as a bonus, if the person who is cloaking does it to try and get kills, or trying to interfere with the industry or isk generation of an enemy, then it clearly has a goal, at which point it cannot be griefing as it is achieving an in game result.

so basically, your pathetic claim fails on each and every aspect of the "griefing" rule

hope this helps :)
Anthar Thebess
#379 - 2013-09-25 14:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
NightmareX wrote:

Thank you for showing that.

+1 to you.


Think again.
From my perspective , there should be additional Covert Cloak.
It will make you invisible on local chat ( while cloaked ) , but at the same time you cannot fit cyno or covert cyno on your ship.


TheGunslinger42 wrote:


Well if someone admits that he have char logged in in some system, cloaked, to prevent people from playing (ratting/ mining) and 95% of the time this char is idle.
Sometimes for days - then yes this is braking EULA/TOS.

You are spending most of your time , hurting other players and at the same time gaining nothing more than pleasure from making other players game time miserable.

Yes you kill sometimes with this alt. But at the same time on your main you kill 200x times more doing all the stuff you want at the same time.

Eve is not perfect , and no one from CCP will do any thing about this - afk camper problem.
No one from CCP will read this thread - still let keep the flame burning :)

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#380 - 2013-09-25 14:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Who says I do? What defines "active"? If I am playing the meta-game is that not active enough? Don't I pay the same as you and have the same sandbox environment free to play as I wish without governance (within the TOS\EULA OFC)? Who are you to decree how I should play as I am no-one to decree how you should play? No-one, exactly.


So you just admit, that you are AFK camping others - not nice you are braking EULA and TOS!
Well someone can report you now.
You cannot AFK Camp other players - as this is Griefing.
( That is why we have so many true AFK players and active cloaky hunters )


What are you braking?
http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Quote:

Grief play
What is grief play?
Griefing
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.


Please provide proof that 1) I admitted to AFK Camping in any of that quote 2) Video footage that I am AFK camping systems and am not active.

Thank you.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!