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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping

Author
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-23 16:07:57 UTC
I know this has been posted on before but I am tossing an idea out there to be considered.

Several years ago a game was created by Wolfpack studios called Shadowbane. In that game there were stealth classes of character; thief, assassin, scout, etc etc. Now Wolfpack determined that stealth was a very powerful thing and limited in certain ways. I am suggesting an idea here that is similar to theirs.

Scout class ship:

In shadowbane the scout was the ONLY class that could see hidden characters. This wasn't a passive skill but one that required that the scout track down and get close enough to its target before he could see them. This idea could easily be implemented into a ship design. The scout was no more or less powerful than the average stealth character, and thus this new scout class ship would be a frigate in design, with roughly the same power as a single bomber.

How it would work:

The idea would be simple. This ship would be able to scan systems with probes, like combat probes but would be able to find a general location of a cloaked ship, say a 25KM radius around the ship, and decreasing to 5KM as you train skills. Now once the scout class ship has located the general area the cloaked ship might be, he can warp to that area but then he would have to manually fly around to locate the cloaked ship. Once the scout is within 5k of the cloaked ship, the player AND ONLY THAT PLAYER, would be able to see the cloaked ship. He would not be able to bookmark the ship or someone broadcast the location to his fleet while the cloaked ship is still cloaked. He would have to get within the standard 2.5k to decloak the ship. Once the cloak is dropped, BOTH ships are decloaked, and then normal combat can begin. NOW the scout ship would have one major advantage. A targeted cyno jammer. It only works on a single ship, only has a range of 5k and would be fueled by something like heavy water or something of that nature. Quick cycle time and fairly high use of materials to power it, so that its not used as a crutch to stop all cyno fields. The idea is a skilled player has to work to lock down a cloaked ship AND if they succeed, they need to have an advantage. The jammer is that advantage.

What this ship would do:

This would allow for PVP which is what CCP wants. It would combat AFK cloaked camping of a system. Anyone that is AFK is at risk of losing their ship. I feel that a cloak shouldn't be a safe guard. Be active or don't play. AFK cloak camping of a system is cheap tactic and requires 0 skill level to accomplish. I am purposing to add some skill back into an already skill dependent game. Most cloak campers are in ships that are worthless and they are preying on expensive ships that people have invested large amounts of time and effort into. I personally feel that if I am going to be at risk of attack, I want it to be on a level playing field.

I realize that PVPers hate care bears and CCP wants to increase the amount of PVP in the game. Well if they want that then they need to level the playing field. This ship design does that, especially with a cyno jammer.

Like I said. This is an idea. It can be and will be refined, BUT I think its a easily implemented solution that every side could agree is fair.
Christopher AET
Lethal Injection Inc.
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2013-06-23 16:13:21 UTC
So long as it can be countered and evaded by an active cloaked player. Cloaking is not in itself overpowered. The invulnerability granted even when afk is.

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.

Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-23 16:14:36 UTC
Yes. This ship would have a very hard time locating an ACTIVE cloak character. That's the idea.
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#4 - 2013-06-23 16:30:57 UTC
+1 for this idea.

We need something to make these afk cloakers either stay at the keyboard or die in a blaze of fire.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#5 - 2013-06-23 16:44:10 UTC
Not supporting. Makes gate camping very easy.

Also... OP... check out the stats for cloaking specialized ships. They are already "pre-nerfed" by being weaker than in direct combat than their basic class variants.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#6 - 2013-06-23 16:47:01 UTC
So i get decloaked and killed while i walk the dog, take a crap or have a cigarette break? No thanks.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-23 16:47:25 UTC
What?? Gate camping is already stupid easy. Pop bubble and wait...... I am not sure you understood what I purposed.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-23 16:48:42 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
So i get decloaked and killed while i walk the dog, take a crap or have a cigarette break? No thanks.


Log off, dock up, but if you are AFK you run the risk of being blown up. It happens in EVERY SHIP. Get over it. Stop using a cloak as a crutch
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#9 - 2013-06-23 16:59:26 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Log off, dock up


Why don't you log off or dock up if a cloaked ship bothers you that much?

Quote:
but if you are AFK you run the risk of being blown up. It happens in EVERY SHIP.


Nope. Never had that problem in a cloaky ship. And that's one of the reasons to fit a cloak in the first place.
I pay for this convenience with lower dps and tank. So it's all fair.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#10 - 2013-06-23 17:02:28 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
What?? Gate camping is already stupid easy. Pop bubble and wait...... I am not sure you understood what I purposed.

You are proposing an idea that would allow people to see and catch cloaked ships that are attempting to run bubbled camps. Right now there is a margin of success. With this idea the scouts would run point to decloak the cloaker ship (with dozens of drones in tow).

It also allows fleets to see if/where bombers are about to perform a bombing run... which makes one of the few counters against larger, more superior forces ineffective...

It also renders the "sneak up and tackle/kill" tactics that some cloaking ships (Proteus, Pilgrim) are restricted to completely obsolete.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-23 17:07:12 UTC
I think you're also missing the point. My idea is not to stop cloaking, but it is to stop the idea of cloak AFK camping in systems. I dont care about active cloaked ships, those dont bother me. What bothers me is the 3 month old character, sitting afk in a system with a rookie ship, a cyno and a cloak.

If you think cloak AFK camping of a system is a good idea then that's a different issue.


Shahfluffers.

No I am not. This ship would have a very difficult time locating an active cloaked ship. It would be useless as a point runner cause it would need probes in space, time to warp to a location, time to manually locate its target and then attack.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#12 - 2013-06-23 17:09:01 UTC
no, afk cloaking is fine and just a result of local as OP intel tool.

afk cloaking just reflects the power of local back on its abusers, this is all right.
Tecate
Special Tactics Force Unit Gits
#13 - 2013-06-23 17:09:59 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:

Why don't you log off or dock up if a cloaked ship bothers you that much?



CCP wants more interaction and combat. Your not doing either. Either play or logoff. AFK Cloaky sitting is not playing.

Johan Toralen wrote:

Nope. Never had that problem in a cloaky ship. And that's one of the reasons to fit a cloak in the first place.
I pay for this convenience with lower dps and tank. So it's all fair.



CCP has put in the logoff of afker's but seems people have figured the way around it by either keymapping or macroing something to interact with the key board.

I think it's time there was a way to counter the cloak altogether. So either your pilot skills get better or you just lose your ship because you couldn't fight or flee when your suppose too.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-23 17:14:43 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
no, afk cloaking is fine and just a result of local as OP intel tool.

afk cloaking just reflects the power of local back on its abusers, this is all right.



So let's say that Local is taken from the game so that no one knows who is in system. The idea of my ship would be EVEN MORE needed cause then the cloakers would have true rule of every system. You wouldnt be able to undock from any station without fear of a cloaked group of players waiting on you. CCP would never allow this. WHY? cause people would start logging off and then simply stop playing.

Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-23 17:15:56 UTC
the single afk stealth bomber preventing you from mining crokite is interacting with you, you just dont like the result
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#16 - 2013-06-23 17:18:41 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
So let's say that Local is taken


if local is nerfed (I dont demand complete removal of it), cloak should be nerfed too then, thats right. But your ideas all come up on forums about afk cloaking completely ignore this true issue initially.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-23 17:21:39 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
the single afk stealth bomber preventing you from mining crokite is interacting with you, you just dont like the result


No that doesn't bother me. That's active game play. The guy in a rookie ship with a cyno bothers me and if you are going to say on the forums that things like that don't happen then you're crazy.

This tactic is more and more common. Why should I have to risk my ships that I invested time on to some troll that's in a 3 month old alt, with a cyno, and will blob a hulk just for giggles?

It's shear ignorance to think this is fun or even fair game play. The only reason you snap back at my idea is that I am suggesting that you actually have to fight the good fight instead of picking at the scraps and padding your kill boards with easy kills.

You think I am suggesting a nerf to cloaks or something similar. I am not. I am suggesting a counter to the AFK cloak camper that sits in a system for 8 hours a day, never does anything.



Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-23 17:24:58 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
So let's say that Local is taken


if local is nerfed (I dont demand complete removal of it), cloak should be nerfed too then, thats right. But your ideas all come up on forums about afk cloaking completely ignore this true issue initially.


I cant think of any game that has allowed a cloak class to go completely undetected or doesn't have a counter. Local isn't the issue and you know it. The cloaky campers depend on local. It's how they work. They want people to know they are there. Why else do it? AFK camping would be useless without local. You would have to be ACTIVE to be a treat and that's all I suggest. Be active.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#19 - 2013-06-23 17:26:51 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
no, afk cloaking is fine and just a result of local as OP intel tool.

afk cloaking just reflects the power of local back on its abusers, this is all right.

Local is abused both ways, no one would "afk" cloak an empty system.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#20 - 2013-06-23 17:27:19 UTC
Tecate wrote:
CCP wants more interaction and combat. Your not doing either. Either play or logoff. AFK Cloaky sitting is not playing.


You guys are like players screaming for ban of margin trading skill because of margin scams.
Me having a short cigarette break is not the same as someone afk cloaking in a system 23/7 for days and weeks. You want the later removed from the game then come up with ideas that only adresses that issue and not some bull that makes life harder for everyone else using a cloak.

It's not unfair to anyone that i can take a short cloaked afk break when i'm operating deep in hostile territory with no stations to dock. And btw your presence in local might annoy me just as much as my presence annoys you but you don't see me asking for an easy button to remove others from the system so i can go on with my business undisturbed. It's all fair as it is.
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