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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#301 - 2013-09-24 21:55:44 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
According to you, there is nothing to fix, because you just don't want to admit it that you are safe with no risks at all and want's to abuse the system for your pleasures while others can't do the same without risks. And now, i'm here to let you know that you are weak if you don't see the things i'm talking about. And i'm also here to support a change to the current cloaking mechanic so we can have a way to actually find and destroy afk cloakers with some work.

And if you let the ship orbit a station at 165 km and still sits at the computer and watch it, you are not afk. You would be able to react pretty much instantly if ***** hits the fan or if you are close to get decloaked by something in space.

You wouldn't be able to do this if you are afk doing something else outside of the computer.

See, you don't see the differences from being afk to be active. Wake up dude.


First, sitting cloaked in a system at a safe is in no way an abuse of anything. That is precisely how cloaks were designed. And you can do the same as well. Get in a cloaked ship and sit there at a safe also completely safe.

And that is just a ridiculous claim that people are weak if they simply don't roll over and agree with you. Cloaks were designed this way and have been this way for years despite numerous whine threads about how they are used. That is pretty good evidence that CCP knows how cloaks are bing used, and are just fine with it given existing game mechanics.

And yes, he does know the difference between being AFK and active, what he is pointing out is that you have no knowledge of it so trying to pass of wanting to engage AFK players when you could also possibly engage an active player is not good design.

Quote:
That's according to the cloaker / you. Not according to the others in system. I'm talking about that the others in the system should be able to find the cloaker IF he's afk and nowhere near his computer. Because he can't prevent his ship from declaking then. You can prevent this if you are active.


No, because AFK cloaking and cloaking in general is a counter to the intel local provides. Being able to stop that counter is unbalancing.

Quote:
I have no problems that i have neutrals or hostiles in my sovereign space. The problem is that i don't have a way or tools to remove the cloaked ship / player from the system if he's afk. Like i have said, if you are afk, you will have high risks of getting decloaked and killed. If you are active with your computer and watches eve, you will most likely don't die as it's YOU who are controlling YOUR ship and not the automaticly EVE funtions.

So you can believe all you want that you accidentally my points.

Your problem is that you don't see the problem that a player like you in a cloaked ship can cause so much fear for someone by not being active at the computer. If you can make that much fear by that, then why shouldn't we be allowed to have a tool to give you some fear if you decide to go afk in space, witch is pretty much the only way we can cause fear to the afk cloakers?


You don't have to engage them to beat them. That is part of your failing. Merely adapting your play style along with others in yoru corp/alliance would go along ways towards solving the problem. But you refuse to even consider this.

And the real problem isn't the AFK cloaked pilot. That guy AFK cloaking in your system...he is a symptom of the real problem/mechanic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#302 - 2013-09-24 21:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
I believe you have a false premise. A cloaked ship is 100% safe when its cloak is active because they pose 0 threat to other players, much like a docked player or a player POSed up. Being is space is not the relevant criteria.

It's only safe when a human is controlling the ship and not a function in EVE.

And no, they do not pose 0 threat to other players by being cloaked as it have been said multiple times already. Pretty much everyone will take that cloaked player as a huge threat because they don't know if they will get hot dropped by a cyno or anything. So they will rather will dock up or leave the system. But instead of doing that all the time, let the players who want to do all of this work to find you be able to find you with some work if they really want to try and find out if you are afk or not.

Not only that. But this allows you to even act like you are afk while you are not to let them warp into YOUR trap. And then when the other pilot / pilots in the system finally have found your location, you can suprise him by uncloaking and dropping a cyno and jump other ships in on him like you could do as normal when you are active.

The only difference here for those players is that instead of getting killed with PVE setups because you have all of the advantages on your side while the PVE player have none, he will come after you with a PVP ship instead and can even give you a better fight. It's good for both sides. But i'll guess you are just a lil wimpy girl with no balls that don't like that the the advantages are on the other player / players side as it's them who have been working their asses off to actually find you and destroy you with their advantages while you do nothing more than masturbate while you are afk witch grants you no advantages.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Another false premise is knowlege a person is AFK when in station or a POS, we don't know that either.

The differences here is that you can watch those players in stations or POS'es and you will know if they are staying there or are moving / doing things.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#303 - 2013-09-24 22:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I believe you have a false premise. A cloaked ship is 100% safe when its cloak is active because they pose 0 threat to other players, much like a docked player or a player POSed up. Being is space is not the relevant criteria.

It's only safe when a human is controlling the ship and not a function in EVE.

And no, they do not pose 0 threat to other players by being cloaked as it have been said multiple times already.


No ship, with its cloak active has destroyed another ship.*

As for docked and POSed up players, Yeah, I have to sit there and watch (usually cloaked) to make sure they don't do bad things to me and my ship. Just like you sit there docked up so that my cloaked ship doesn't do bad things to you.

See...once again, balance.

Now, do you really know why those guys AFK cloak?



*Okay, a bombing run could accomplish tihs, but then again these guys aren't supposedly a problem since they aren't AFK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#304 - 2013-09-24 22:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I believe you have a false premise. A cloaked ship is 100% safe when its cloak is active because they pose 0 threat to other players, much like a docked player or a player POSed up. Being is space is not the relevant criteria.

It's only safe when a human is controlling the ship and not a function in EVE.

And no, they do not pose 0 threat to other players by being cloaked as it have been said multiple times already.


No ship, with its cloak active has destroyed another ship.*

As for docked and POSed up players, Yeah, I have to sit there and watch (usually cloaked) to make sure they don't do bad things to me and my ship. Just like you sit there docked up so that my cloaked ship doesn't do bad things to you.

See...once again, balance.

Now, do you really know why those guys AFK cloak?

*Okay, a bombing run could accomplish tihs, but then again these guys aren't supposedly a problem since they aren't AFK.


A cloaked ship poses 0 threat because while cloaked it cannot activate modules and that includes cyno's. The fear of the cloaked ship should be when you can see it as it is then,and only then, that it poses a potential danger e.g. lighting a cyno. The response is to beat that Cov-Ops Pilot with his paper-thin tank to death before his buddies hot drop in if he even has chance to light a cyno.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#305 - 2013-09-24 22:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
First, sitting cloaked in a system at a safe is in no way an abuse of anything. That is precisely how cloaks were designed. And you can do the same as well. Get in a cloaked ship and sit there at a safe also completely safe.

And that is just a ridiculous claim that people are weak if they simply don't roll over and agree with you. Cloaks were designed this way and have been this way for years despite numerous whine threads about how they are used. That is pretty good evidence that CCP knows how cloaks are bing used, and are just fine with it given existing game mechanics.

And yes, he does know the difference between being AFK and active, what he is pointing out is that you have no knowledge of it so trying to pass of wanting to engage AFK players when you could also possibly engage an active player is not good design.

Cloaks was designed to be used as a tool to sneak into others territories and give intel while you are active. Not to cause fear if no one except for EVE's functions is controlling the cloaked ship.

Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?

Your not supposed to get ANY advantages at all against others if you are not active and playing EVE or if you are afk. PERIOD.

Yes, you can do missions afk, you can mine afk, you can actually do alot of things while you are afk. But the differences here is that every part of those afk things have a pretty high risks of being killed by someone while being afk. And so it should be for everyone who are afk.

Why should you get a free pass to not have any risks while you are afk when everyone else have to live in danger while being afk?

Teckos Pech wrote:
No, because AFK cloaking and cloaking in general is a counter to the intel local provides. Being able to stop that counter is unbalancing.

Why is that unbalanced?

And why isn't an afk player who are nowhere near his computer that are causing fear and have alot of advantages against others in the same system who have no advantages on you not unbalanced when others can't be safe as that by being afk or nowhere near our computers while being in space?

Again, we are talking about players who are not at their computers. Why should they get so many advantages on a player when a player that are active while you in a cloaking ship are afk can't get half as many advantages as the afk cloaker?

Teckos Pech wrote:
You don't have to engage them to beat them. That is part of your failing. Merely adapting your play style along with others in yoru corp/alliance would go along ways towards solving the problem. But you refuse to even consider this.

And the real problem isn't the AFK cloaked pilot. That guy AFK cloaking in your system...he is a symptom of the real problem/mechanic.

I have to engage them and risks alot if i want to try and find him my self.

If a cloaker is causing fear that makes the other players in that system to change to a new system, then why can't the others in that system cause fear to you so you don't go afk where others are?

If you can cause fear, then the other players should have a way to cause fear on you.

It will be balanced so both sides have ways to cause fear on each others and not just one of the side that will rather scares away players to a new systems all the time witch isn't really a way for them to cause fear on you.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
A cloaked ship poses 0 threat because while cloaked it cannot activate modules and that includes cyno's. The fear of the cloaked ship should be when you can see it as it is then,and only then, that it poses a potential danger e.g. lighting a cyno. The response is to beat that Cov-Ops Pilot with his paper-thin tank to death before his buddies hot drop in if he even has chance to light a cyno.

That's according to you.

Why shouldn't the others in the same system be able to make it so they can know that you poses 0 threat to them?

If you say you poses 0 threat to them, then they should also be able to say that they can say you poses 0 threat to them by destroying you if you are afk.

This reply is also for the others who replied to me before i managed to write this post.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#306 - 2013-09-24 22:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Let's get down to brass tacks here:

People cry and whine and /O\ about the mysterious and phantom "AFK Cloaker" in threads by the hundreds in this forum and come up with all novel of ways to "counter" it from scanning probes to full out blatant "NERF CLOAK MOOOARRRR!" threads.

The "counter" you seek to nerf is the balance to the free intelligence that you are given before the Cov-Ops Pilot has even entered the system and knows who is in it and it's called LOCAL.

Cloaking is the balance to Local and to change the balance against cloaking is to OP Local.

The side affect of Local + Possibly Cloaked Vessels is fear, fear of the unknown. This fear is due to a pilots failure to be prepared to lose their ship or their failure to be prepared to fight and defend it. Is it this fear that steers them to the forums to create more threads trying to unbalance the balance that was put in place because they don't understand that without Local you wouldn't know who was in system or what state they could possibly be in. As a working example Wormholes.

I wonder how many Wormhole Dwellers post up in these forums about the mysterious and phantom "AFK Cloaker" in their WH's stopping them from doing what they want. I'll bet very few or none as they use their knowledge, team work and ACTIVE intelligence to prevent and deny this from happening.

Simples.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#307 - 2013-09-24 22:32:57 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?


Oh you can't cause me fear if I'm AFK as I don't know what you are doing...but get within 2000m of my ship if I am AFK and you can imagine my face when I come back and wonder WTF I'm doing in station without my implants in Twisted

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#308 - 2013-09-24 22:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
@ Maximus.

I see where you want to go. But the thing that i think most of you don't see is that everyone else have to live with risks and danger everywhere while the cloakers have no risks or dangers. Yes i know the whole point of the cloaking system, but that shouldn't automaticly give you a free pass to avoid risks or dangers.

Right?

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?


Oh you can't cause me fear if I'm AFK as I don't know what you are doing...but get within 2000m of my ship if I am AFK and you can imagine my face when I come back and wonder WTF I'm doing in station without my implants in Twisted

Well, you would still have the risk of letting your ship fly in space while you are afk. Thus it would give you some fear to either dock up, leave system or log off, or simply take the risks.

And lastly. I might not even support the idea the op have in the end. Who knows?. My whole point is to support a change to the cloaking mechanics that lets the cloakers have risks and dangers like everyone else have.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#309 - 2013-09-24 22:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?


Oh you can't cause me fear if I'm AFK as I don't know what you are doing...but get within 2000m of my ship if I am AFK and you can imagine my face when I come back and wonder WTF I'm doing in station without my implants in Twisted


Having to quote as I don't want you to miss that I've added, sorry:

Cov-Ops pilots do feel fear, believe me, I'm one of them and when you jump through that gate and there's a fantastically organise gate camp on the other side or 5 BC's all supporting one who you know is an instant locker with the remote sensor boosts being pumped into his ship and they've all assigned their drones to an Inty who's orbiting so he looks like a comet with a drone tail...believe me...we feel the fear and we're not even where we've got to get to yet!

Now comes the do or die where we drop Gate Invul Cloak and have that 1 tick to activate our Cov-Ops cloak...get it wrong and it's two ticks...and it only takes 1 tick to die as you have 0 tank against the above and when you ship dies you can guarantee your pod's next along with whatever implants you had in your head.

All the above could impact a Corp\Alliance\Coalitions operation as you could be scouting for them, intel gathering or anything really.

Now that's real fear and not imagined...

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#310 - 2013-09-24 22:39:34 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
@ Maximus.

I see where you want to go. But the thing that i think most of you don't see is that everyone else have to live with risks and danger everywhere while the cloakers have no risks or dangers. Yes i know the whole point of the cloaking system, but that shouldn't automaticly give you a free pass to avoid risks or dangers.

Right?

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?


Oh you can't cause me fear if I'm AFK as I don't know what you are doing...but get within 2000m of my ship if I am AFK and you can imagine my face when I come back and wonder WTF I'm doing in station without my implants in Twisted

Well, you would still have the risk of letting your ship fly in space while you are afk. Thus it would give you some fear to either dock up, leave system or log off, or simply take the risks.


See my above comment. I really do appreciate the civil response you gave, some people really lose it over this discussion.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#311 - 2013-09-24 22:44:14 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Cloaks was designed to be used as a tool to sneak into others territories and give intel while you are active. Not to cause fear if no one except for EVE's functions is controlling the cloaked ship.


How do you know? Here is part of the description for the Nemesis,

Quote:
Specifically engineered to fire torpedoes, stealth bombers represent the next generation in covert ops craft. The bombers are designed for sneak attacks on large vessels with powerful missile guidance technology enabling the torpedoes to strike faster and from a longer distance.


Sounds like a weapon of fear to me. From the description of hte Sin:

Quote:
Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further.


Add in Force Recons and you have a whole group of ships that are specifically designed to "get into enemy territory" and cause havoc, mayhem and destruction. Asymmetrical warfare if ever heard it.

Quote:
Asymmetric warfare can describe a conflict in which the resources of two belligerents differ in essence and in the struggle, interact and attempt to exploit each other's characteristic weaknesses. Such struggles often involve strategies and tactics of unconventional warfare, the weaker combatants attempting to use strategy to offset deficiencies in quantity or quality.[1] Such strategies may not necessarily be militarized.[2] This is in contrast to symmetric warfare, where two powers have similar military power and resources and rely on tactics that are similar overall, differing only in details and execution.

The term is frequently used to describe what is also called "guerrilla warfare", "insurgency", "terrorism", "counterinsurgency", and "counterterrorism", essentially violent conflict between a formal military and an informal, less equipped and supported, undermanned but resilient opponent.


Seems like the Devs knew exactly what they were doing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#312 - 2013-09-24 22:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?

Why can't the others cause fear to you if you are afk?


Oh you can't cause me fear if I'm AFK as I don't know what you are doing...but get within 2000m of my ship if I am AFK and you can imagine my face when I come back and wonder WTF I'm doing in station without my implants in Twisted


Having to quote as I don't want you to miss that I've added, sorry:

Cov-Ops pilots do feel fear, believe me, I'm one of them and when you jump through that gate and there's a fantastically organise gate camp on the other side or 5 BC's all supporting one who you know is an instant locker with the remote sensor boosts being pumped into his ship and they've all assigned their drones to an Inty who's orbiting so he looks like a comet with a drone tail...believe me...we feel the fear and we're not even where we've got to get to yet!

Now comes the do or die where we drop Gate Invul Cloak and have that 1 tick to activate our Cov-Ops cloak...get it wrong and it's two ticks...and it only takes 1 tick to die as you have 0 tank against the above and when you ship dies you can guarantee your pod's next along with whatever implants you had in your head.

All the above could impact a Corp\Alliance\Coalitions operation as you could be scouting for them, intel gathering or anything really.

Now that's real fear and not imagined...

Oh, i have gone through so many bubbled gate camps in a Stealth Bomber that i'm not really to concerned about that.

Sure it's a risk and dangerous, but that's just for some seconds or a minute or two. With an afk cloaker in a system with others in it, those have to live with that risk or danger all the time. So, my point is still that "afk" cloakers should get more risks like everyone else who are afk in space have Blink

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#313 - 2013-09-24 22:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Again, why should YOUR ship cause fear if YOU are not playing EVE?


Because you let it.

Quote:
Your not supposed to get ANY advantages at all against others if you are not active and playing EVE or if you are afk. PERIOD.


And AFK player, whether in station, in a POS, or cloaked gains nothing. No isk, no items, no status, no skills, nothing. I've already looked over that part of the EULA/ToS and a cloaked player does not break it. This is true if they are AFK or not. And after all these years, CCP could have ruled on it in your favor and they have not.

Quote:
Yes, you can do missions afk, you can mine afk, you can actually do alot of things while you are afk. But the differences here is that every part of those afk things have a pretty high risks of being killed by someone while being afk. And so it should be for everyone who are afk.


I used to do missions in an ishtar while AFK. I'd warp in, turn on the tank, get aggro, drop drones and go AFK. Come back find all the rats dead, I'd turn in the mission, rinse and repeat. I still mine ice while largely AFK....well okay at my work keyboard, but not watching the game. Oh no! Am I botting? Am I breaking the EULA/ToS? No. Being AFK and gaining in game items/isk is not a violation...it is only a violation if use some sort of automated method.

And guess what, there is very little risk when I ran missions in my ishtar. It was T2 fit and not worth ganking. And my ice mining barge...it fits a tank, so not an easy gank.

Quote:
Why should you get a free pass to not have any risks while you are afk when everyone else have to live in danger while being afk?


Because when at a safe with the cloak on I can do nothing to any other ship. Ever. I'd have to turn of the cloak to do something an then, I'm at risk.

And you don't have to find them and engage them to beat them. Really. All you have to do is the following:

1. Keep utilizing your system.
2. While not presenting an opportunity for them to gank you.

Once you accomplish both 1 and 2 above, you win and they lose. All that time they had their guy AFK in your system(s) and here you don't let it stop you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#314 - 2013-09-24 22:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Oh, i have gone through so many bubbled gate camps in a Stealth Bomber that i'm not really to concerned about that.

Sure it's a risk and dangerous, but that's just for some seconds or a minute or two. With an afk cloaker in a system with others in it, those have to live with that risk or danger all the time. So, my point is still that "afk" cloakers should get more risks like everyone else who are afk in space have Blink


I'm sorry but it's still like saying "I'm a 27 year old Navy SEAL and I'm afraid of the 5 year old that I could kill with one punch who may be around the corner or may not be".

Sorry dude, but:


  • You don't know if that person is a Cov-Ops
  • You don't know what they are doing
  • You don't know and will never know if they are AFK
  • You know that they are in system because Local tells you they are


My question to you is this: "When you enter a system and someone is in it before you what do you do?

EDIT: Oh and I lost my >400mil SB because I fitted it with decent gear to do the job I wanted to do. It happens and it hurts when it does.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#315 - 2013-09-24 22:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
Because you let it.

No i didn't. I didn't let it happen because i want to find out if i could stop you from causing fear on us.

Teckos Pech wrote:
And AFK player, whether in station, in a POS, or cloaked gains nothing. No isk, no items, no status, no skills, nothing. I've already looked over that part of the EULA/ToS and a cloaked player does not break it. This is true if they are AFK or not. And after all these years, CCP could have ruled on it in your favor and they have not.

Again, that's according to the cloakers / you. We gives a damn about what the cloakers thinks. We thinks about what the other players thinks and want to do to neutralize you if you are afk.

Teckos Pech wrote:
I used to do missions in an ishtar while AFK. I'd warp in, turn on the tank, get aggro, drop drones and go AFK. Come back find all the rats dead, I'd turn in the mission, rinse and repeat. I still mine ice while largely AFK....well okay at my work keyboard, but not watching the game. Oh no! Am I botting? Am I breaking the EULA/ToS? No. Being AFK and gaining in game items/isk is not a violation...it is only a violation if use some sort of automated method.

And guess what, there is very little risk when I ran missions in my ishtar. It was T2 fit and not worth ganking. And my ice mining barge...it fits a tank, so not an easy gank.

Wow, just because you have been lucky by not getting suicided by anyone just to take an example, it doesn't mean that it applies to everyone. Again, risks everywhere there.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Because when at a safe with the cloak on I can do nothing to any other ship. Ever. I'd have to turn of the cloak to do something an then, I'm at risk.

Again, that's according to you. According to the other players, you are a huge threat and want to have a tool to neutralize you and make sure they are safe in the same wayas you can make sure to be safe.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#316 - 2013-09-24 22:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
Again, that's according to you. According to the other players, you are a huge threat and want to have a tool to neutralize you and make sure they are safe in the same wayas you can make sure to be safe.


The tool is already there...

1) Fit for possible aggression
2) Get some PVP corp mates to cover your arse
3) GTFO
4) Dock up
5) Watch Local (you already do I can tell Blink) and react
6) Hit the POS like a b*tch in heat
7) Jump systems
8) Gate Camp the gates
9) Get intel channels and contribute

I could keep going all night about the "Tools" that are alluding all these people you claim to represent that are already IG.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#317 - 2013-09-24 23:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Oh, i have gone through so many bubbled gate camps in a Stealth Bomber that i'm not really to concerned about that.

Sure it's a risk and dangerous, but that's just for some seconds or a minute or two. With an afk cloaker in a system with others in it, those have to live with that risk or danger all the time. So, my point is still that "afk" cloakers should get more risks like everyone else who are afk in space have Blink


I'm sorry but it's still like saying "I'm a 27 year old Navy SEAL and I'm afraid of the 5 year old that I could kill with one punch who may be around the corner or may not be".

Sorry dude, but:


  • You don't know if that person is a Cov-Ops
  • You don't know what they are doing
  • You don't know and will never know if they are AFK
  • You know that they are in system because Local tells you they are


My question to you is this: "When you enter a system and someone is in it before you what do you do?

EDIT: Oh and I lost my >400mil SB because I fitted it with decent gear to do the job I wanted to do. It happens and it hurts when it does.

1. I will find out fast if he's in a cloaking ship. That's the whole point. It's not just about Cov-Ops.

Because if i can't find him with probes, then i know he's cloaked somewhere.

2. No, i don't know what they are doing. But if they are doing nothing, then it should be a way for us others to try and find out if they are doing something we don't know or if they are doing nothing where they risks of getting decloaked.

Being afk should not harm anyone or have any advantages over other players. Now i looks at the perspective of the other players in the system and not what you as a cloaker thinks, because this issue is not about you. It's that simple. Doesn't matter if he have a cloak fitted. As long as he's not playing EVE, he should in no ways be able to cause fear on others. That's why i think it will be nice if those players actually have the tool to try and find those if they actually are afk and cause fear on them.

Again, a cloak should not grant you a free pass to have no risks or dangers. Using a cloak on a ship is just another type of tactic used.

3. But it should be a way to "be able" to "try" and find that out if he's afk as an afk player shouldn't place any fears on others. That's just unfair tactic. Can i cause fear on others in another way than using cloaks while being afk?

No?

4. Yeah, they are in local in the same way as i'm in local. But that shouldn't prevent those others from TRYING to figure out if the cloaked player are afk or not.

What's the problem?

If the cloaker is active, no one will find you and cause no danger on you. Problems?

If you are not playing EVE while being logged on in space, you shouldn't prevent others from trying to find you. Again, you can prevent this if you are active.

And i'm also pretty sure that CCP them self doesn't like afk playing where it gives advantages to the afk players and no advantages to the other part.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#318 - 2013-09-24 23:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Again, that's according to you. According to the other players, you are a huge threat and want to have a tool to neutralize you and make sure they are safe in the same wayas you can make sure to be safe.


The tool is already there...

1) Fit for possible aggression
2) Get some PVP corp mates to cover your arse
3) GTFO
4) Dock up
5) Watch Local (you already do I can tell Blink) and react
6) Hit the POS like a b*tch in heat
7) Jump systems
8) Gate Camp the gates
9) Get intel channels and contribute

I could keep going all night about the "Tools" that are alluding all these people you claim to represent that are already IG.

So basicly, i have to go around like an idiot doing all of that because i take that cloaker for being active while you on the other hand can be afk all you want and be all chilled with all of your risk free advantages and just watch some porn movies on your TV and masturbate to that while we have to suffer all the time. How is that balanced?

Again, i don't care if the op's idea or others idea will be used as i only care about getting a way to find out if you are afk or not. I have to spend alot of time and risks alot in the process of finding you. Why shouldn't i be allowed to do that if i want to do that?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#319 - 2013-09-24 23:25:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
If you are not playing EVE while being logged on in space, you shouldn't prevent others from trying to find you. Again, you can prevent this if you are active.

And i'm also pretty sure that CCP them self doesn't like afk playing where it gives advantages to the afk players and no advantages to the other part.


But "AFK" Cloakers don't have an advantage, only the advantage that you give them by fearing they are active = working as intended. Assuming that they are active, which we always should (Oh I've just gone AFK in Hek with a Improved Cloaking Device as I was on a market run to reply to this) then the fear you have is real and you should act upon it...see one of the 9 other points of how to react or find your own.

It's all a matter of perception. Yes I post as a Cov-Ops Pilot who flies in a flimsy ship which is nerfed in every way because of the nature of it's business: Cloaking and being undetectable.

Hence the description here:

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
EVE Online wrote:
A very specialized piece of technology, the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with specific covert ops vessels. Although it could theoretically work on other ships, its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations will overwhelm non-specialized computing hardware.


Now look at a Cheetah (Cov-Ops Frigate):

EVE Online wrote:
Name: Cheetah
Hull: Probe Class
Role: Covert Ops Frigate

Designed for commando and espionage operation, its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavorable encounters.


its main strength is the ability to travel unseen through enemy territory and to avoid unfavourable encounters period. That's what it's designed to do and to counter it...Local and naff all defences.

EDIT:

Stats for that fear-inducing beast:

Base Armour: 387HP
Base Shield: 281HP
Base Structure: 528 (I should hull tank this beast)

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#320 - 2013-09-24 23:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
So basicly, i have to go around like an idiot doing all of that because i take that cloaker for being active while you on the other hand can be afk all you want and be all chilled with all of your risk free advantages and just watch some **** movies on your TV and ********** to that while we have to suffer all the time. How is that balanced?

Again, i don't care if the op's idea or others idea will be used as i only care about getting a way to find out if you are afk or not. I have to spend alot of time and risks alot in the process of finding you. Why shouldn't i be allowed to do that if i want to do that?


I can be active and you still wouldn't find me even if you did all that...but doing just one of those things means there is balance.

You want a way to find out if I am AFK or not...because you don't like the uncertainty that I'm not and I'm about to hot drop the fracking lot on top of you. If you did one of the 9 points I posted you wouldn't fear the wet paper bag that is in system. Again, balanced.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!