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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping

Author
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#281 - 2013-09-24 15:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
And why do you think it's fair that you as an afk cloaker can live in total safety while being in space while others can't live in safety except for in stations?


Let us take the above and examine it in closer details. The "total safety" you speak off comes with these drawbacks:


  • Paper thin tank
  • Lose your defence (Cloak) if anything gets inside 2000m of you
  • Cannot fire weapons or activate modules while cloaked
  • Cannot transition between Gate Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak seemlessly giving instalocking gate campers a chance to catch you


Now please point to which part is the "total safety" part of flying a Cov-Ops Ship cos I'm dying to know.

EDIT:

And the "AFK Cloaker" status is a myth as you can't for certainty say anyone is AFK as there is no AFK Status for anyone in New Eden so quit with the AFK Cloaker this and AFK Cloaker that. Maybe he isn't active, then again, maybe he and he's about to land a world of hurt on you cos you failed to prepare and so prepared only to fail. HTFU son and get on with it.

If you are in a system I jump into the server loads me into the Local chat channel before I even get to see the grid. This gives you decision time and if you are on the gate you'll have engagement opportunities or be able to post up in an intel channel...that is all before I even get to see what's on the other side and when I do...I'm vulnerable as a wet paper towel while I transition from Gate Invul Cloak to Cov-Ops cloak.

"Assume no-one is AFK, everyone is an enemy unless explicitly set otherwise and prepare accordingly" NBSI, terms and conditions apply Smile
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#282 - 2013-09-24 15:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
And why do you think it's fair that you as an afk cloaker can live in total safety while being in space while others can't live in safety except for in stations?


Let us take the above and examine it in closer details. The "total safety" you speak off comes with these drawbacks:


  • Paper thin tank
  • Lose your defence (Cloak) if anything gets inside 2000m of you
  • Cannot fire weapons or activate modules while cloaked
  • Cannot transition between Gate Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak seemlessly giving instalocking gate campers a chance to catch you


Now please point to which part is the "total safety" part of flying a Cov-Ops Ship cos I'm dying to know.

EDIT:

And the "AFK Cloaker" status is a myth as you can't for certainty say anyone is AFK as there is no AFK Status for anyone in New Eden so quit with the AFK Cloaker this and AFK Cloaker that. Maybe he isn't active, then again, maybe he and he's about to land a world of hurt on you cos you failed to prepare and so prepared only to fail. HTFU son and get on with it.

If you are in a system I jump into the server loads me into the Local chat channel before I even get to see the grid. This gives you decision time and if you are on the gate you'll have engagement opportunities or be able to post up in an intel channel...that is all before I even get to see what's on the other side and when I do...I'm vulnerable as a wet paper towel while I transition from Gate Invul Cloak to Cov-Ops cloak.

"Assume no-one is AFK, everyone is an enemy unless explicitly set otherwise and prepare accordingly" NBSI, terms and conditions apply Smile

Again, you fail totally by understanding what i'm trying to say here. What i'm saying is that it's not about what YOU think about yourself or your cloaked ships, it's about what the other players in that system thinks of you as a threat. The point here is that the other players have to live in danger and fear to someone who might be afk. Why is that?

Why can't the cloaker who are afk feel the danger and the risk to from the others in local by going afk?

Why should everyone else feel the danger and risk and not you just because you are afk in a cloaked ship?

You are supposed to be safe in that ship as long you are active, not when you are afk. That's the point.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#283 - 2013-09-24 16:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
NightmareX wrote:
The point here is that the other players have to live in danger and fear to someone who might be afk. Why is that?

Why can't the cloaker who are afk feel the danger and the risk to by going afk?

Why should everyone else feel that and not you just because you are afk in a cloaked ship?

You are supposed to be safe in that ship as long you are active, not when you are afk. That's the point.


Highlighted the important parts...you fear someone who, in your mind, is AFK...and if they truly are (which you'll never know and should never assume they are) then you have nothing to worry about as someone who is AFK cannot do anything to you.

What you really should be saying if you are completely honest is that you fear the ACTIVE CLOAKER, the Cov-Ops Pilot who knows what he is doing, who is the watcher on the gate, the logger in the darkness of space and who is watching you, haunting you while you run your max ISK\Hour PVE setup not willing to risk the damage to your cash flow by just preparing a little bit more.

You should fear me more than an AFK'er whether they be cloaked or otherwise cos I am an active Cov-Ops pilot and I like watching and waiting...
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* Cyno Up - It's Hot Drop o'Clock *
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#284 - 2013-09-24 16:11:32 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
The point here is that the other players have to live in danger and fear to someone who might be afk. Why is that?

Why can't the cloaker who are afk feel the danger and the risk to by going afk?

Why should everyone else feel that and not you just because you are afk in a cloaked ship?

You are supposed to be safe in that ship as long you are active, not when you are afk. That's the point.


Highlighted the important parts...you fear someone who, in your mind, is AFK...and if they truly are (which you'll never know and should never assume they are) then you have nothing to worry about as someone who is AFK cannot do anything to you.

What you really should be saying if you are completely honest is that you fear the ACTIVE CLOAKER, the Cov-Ops Pilot who knows what he is doing, who is the watcher on the gate, the logger in the darkness of space and who is watching you, haunting you while you run your max ISK\Hour PVE setup not willing to risk the damage to your cash flow by just preparing a little bit more.

You should fear me more than an AFK'er whether they be cloaked or otherwise cos I am an active Cov-Ops pilot and I like watching and waiting...
...
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...
...
...
...
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* Cyno Up - It's Hot Drop o'Clock *

Le me ask you this then. Why do you want to be safe in space while being afk?

Yes, i'm asking you the question on when you actually are afk in space. Why can you be safe in space there and nobody else?

Shuldn't it be equal to everyone?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#285 - 2013-09-24 16:18:56 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Alright, so if it's about being equal, then the afk cloaker also should dock up in stations to be safe like everyone else have to do.

That's a straw man. You know perfectly well you could block stations being established, and that would certainly narrow the play options in game too.

Be much safer for PvE, all around.

I am sure you can think of something more fair, but will you suggest something that costs YOU something for a benefit YOU seek?

It's not a straw man, it's how it should be. And no, by blocking the station so you can't dock means you have to be active to be able to be 100% sure that you wont end up killed in the same way as i have to be aware of the local all the time even when there is no danger there when no hostiles or neutrals are there, until some hostiles or neutrals actually are jumping in.

So if we are going for the same principle here for the cloaker, he also have to be aware / active all the time so he don't die or get busted.

No, I said the stations could be blocked from being established. That means anchored.
At what point would you permit hostile forces to anchor a POS in systems you hold sov in?

And following that logic, the former hostile being denied cloak and POS, cannot remain in system.
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#286 - 2013-09-24 16:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Nikk Narrel wrote:
No, I said the stations could be blocked from being established. That means anchored.
At what point would you permit hostile forces to anchor a POS in systems you hold sov in?

And following that logic, the former hostile being denied cloak and POS, cannot remain in system.

Well if you are in a system with no stations, then you can simply move to another system who have stations then and dock up if you can so you can be safe. If not, you have to find a place to dock up anyways or simply just log off to be safe.

It's very simple. No one in eve should never ever be safe by being afk in space. It's this for everyone else, but not for the cloakers who are afk, why is that?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#287 - 2013-09-24 17:07:18 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
No, I said the stations could be blocked from being established. That means anchored.
At what point would you permit hostile forces to anchor a POS in systems you hold sov in?

And following that logic, the former hostile being denied cloak and POS, cannot remain in system.

Well if you are in a system with no stations, then you can simply move to another system who have stations then and dock up if you can so you can be safe. If not, you have to find a place to dock up anyways or simply just log off to be safe.

It's very simple. No one in eve should never ever be safe by being afk in space. It's this for everyone else, but not for the cloakers who are afk, why is that?

Oh, that's quite simple.

The cloaked pilots are present to act as a threat to the PvE ships in a system.

It is common and obvious knowledge that they need to overcome being reported by local, if they expect to catch a PvE pilot who is paying attention.

In order to overcome being reported, they need the PvE pilot to believe they are not active, and therefore not a threat sufficient to avoid by remaining docked or behind POS shields.

For the PvE pilot to believe they are not active, the cloaked pilot needs to remain present beyond reasonable play session limits, creating the impression they simply must be AFK in order to eat / sleep / do other real life activities.
Malception
Dutch Rudder Trading Company
#288 - 2013-09-24 17:30:12 UTC
I'll be honest: I haven't read all 13 pages of this monstrosity before making my reply. I'll go and flog myself later.

It seems like a lot of the pro-AFK-Cloaking crowd are saying that because cloaked ships aren't as powerful as non-cloaked ships in general PvP that there shouldn't be a problem. It may have been said, but I seriously doubt that anyone gives a crap about a single cloaked ship - it's the fleet waiting to jump through the Cyno-Of-Certain-Death attached to that ship they're concerned about. So a cloaked ship being weak in the PvP arena is a pretty feeble argument in my opinion.

On the other hand, the anti-AFK-Cloaking crowd seems to be angry that they have to constantly be looking over their shoulder because Tiny Tim, whom they know is in system somewhere, is cloaked up and could be lighting that cyno any second now. By their own admission, this crowd doesn't have a problem with the cloaker who is in system (regardless of whether or not he's going to cyno up), but rather the one who isn't at his keys. I'm a bit confused as to why this crowd cares about whether or not someone is at the keyboard when the end result could be the same.

Either way, why not satisfy both crowds by simply putting Local chat in delayed mode? The AFK cloakers can do their thing all day long (if that's really their gig, which we all know it isn't). Overnight the AFK cloaking problem will disappear and the only cloaky cyno's the null-bears need fear are the ones that are actually at the keys, which is what they really care about anyway.
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#289 - 2013-09-24 18:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The cloaked pilots are present to act as a threat to the PvE ships in a system.

That should only apply if you are active.

So basicly, you want full advantage over the PVE ships / players while the PVE'ers can't have any advangates on you?

I'm baffeled over that you can't see why this is unfair.

The only way the PVE'ers or whatever will have an advantage or chance here is to be able to take you down when you have your pants down, aka when you are afk and are responsible for the loss because you didn't dock up where it's safe or logged off.

The cloaked ship should ONLY be a threat to the PVE ships if the person behind that player / cloaking ship are active in the same way as i have to be active to be a threat to anyone else with any other ships.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#290 - 2013-09-24 19:08:24 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The cloaked pilots are present to act as a threat to the PvE ships in a system.

That should only apply if you are active.

So basicly, you want full advantage over the PVE ships / players while the PVE'ers can't have any advangates on you?

I'm baffeled over that you can't see why this is unfair.

So you say the ability for an alert PvE pilot to avoid all hostile contact, is NOT an advantage?
Therefore, cloaking must be some rogue game mechanic CCP randomly decided to inflict on PvE this way.

That is your argument here?
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#291 - 2013-09-24 19:12:07 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The cloaked pilots are present to act as a threat to the PvE ships in a system.

That should only apply if you are active.

So basicly, you want full advantage over the PVE ships / players while the PVE'ers can't have any advangates on you?

I'm baffeled over that you can't see why this is unfair.

The only way the PVE'ers or whatever will have an advantage or chance here is to be able to take you down when you have your pants down, aka when you are afk and are responsible for the loss because you didn't dock up where it's safe or logged off.

The cloaked ship should ONLY be a threat to the PVE ships if the person behind that player / cloaking ship are active in the same way as i have to be active to be a threat to anyone else with any other ships.



fine that's logical. Now how do you know they aren't active. They aren't a real threat if they are AFK weather in space or in POS or station. If you want the benefits of being safe in space drop a gun for a cloak or use a ship with a utility high slot for a cloak. It requires a mod to be "safe" in space and its a mod that every ship in the game can fit (excluding shuttles, freighters and jump freighter)
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#292 - 2013-09-24 19:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lady Rift wrote:
Now how do you know they aren't active.

By using the OP's idea with a new ship class. If they are active, then we wont be able to find them and decloak them with the new ship class as they are moving around. If they infact are afk, then we can find the ship and decloak them with the new ship class with some work.

The same thing will ofc apply to any cloaked ships that are afk.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#293 - 2013-09-24 19:52:35 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Now how do you know they aren't active.

By using the OP's idea with a new ship class. If they are active, then we wont be able to find them and decloak them with the new ship class as they are moving around. If they infact are afk, then we can find the ship and decloak them with the new ship class with some work.

The same thing will ofc apply to any cloaked ships that are afk.

If there was a level of effort needed to become aware of the cloaked vessel, this might be practical.

All it will achieve otherwise, is the following chain:

1. Local reports a hostile
2. PvE ships dock up
3. Hostile goes to unknown location, cloaked
4. These hunting ships patrol the system until the hostile is either popped or forced out.
5. PvE resumes.

The reduced risk to PvE ships effectively eliminates non consensual PvP from consideration for them.
As long as they operate in sov space, they are safe.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#294 - 2013-09-24 19:56:46 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Now how do you know they aren't active.

By using the OP's idea with a new ship class. If they are active, then we wont be able to find them and decloak them with the new ship class as they are moving around. If they infact are afk, then we can find the ship and decloak them with the new ship class with some work.

The same thing will ofc apply to any cloaked ships that are afk.

So then to defeat this idea and invalidate your point...all one must do is setup their max orbit distance on a gate or other static object in space and orbit while cloaked forever and go back to doing whatever it was that they were doing (intel gathering, posting on EVE-O, reddit, pron, watching movie, chatting in in-game channels, sending ingame mail, managing orders, manipulating market, using PI interface, etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum - because you have no idea what they are doing while they are cloaked and you shouldn't - because cloak). Good luck finding a relatively small sphere/cube/vector/whatever in space that is moving at a minimum of ~150m/s that you cannot see.

Right back where you started aren't you?

I'm right behind you

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#295 - 2013-09-24 19:57:53 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
You don't have to try to find the guy. You don't have to deal with him directly. Not all PvP is with guns blazing. Hell, that AFK camper is beating you and he hasn't fired a shot...can't so long as his cloak is active. But he's chased you all into station.

Undock in PvP ships and make isk. Fleet up and go kill anomalies as a group. Will you make less isk/hour? Probably, but less isk/hour >> 0 isk/hour. That defeats AFK cloaking right there. If 4-5 guys are in PvP ships he wont engage, even if he has a cyno. And even if they do...you'll still gain something: intel. You'll know about ship types and get a better idea of when they are active.

Instead you simply give up. Don't give up, adapt and beat them. Even if they don't engage, but eventually leave...you win. Declare victory and get out that min/maxed PvE ship and earn more isk/hour.

Edit:

And for the love of God, stop complaining about asymmetry in this game. That is one of the defining features of the game. If a smaller more dedicated group of players can become a persistent thorn in a larger alliances side...good on them. That is to be encouraged and held up as what makes this game different and even better than other MMOs where everything is symmetrical and fairness is "forced" onto the players by artificial means. This "unfairness" is often presented as a feature of this game, not a bug. Stop acting like it is a bug when it suddenly bites you where it hurts. Harden up, look for a solution and implement it. Don't come crying to the forums and the Devs saying, "Help me Obi Wan!"

You still haven't explained me why afk cloakers should be 100% safe all the time while everyone else have to live in danger with tons of risks?

And why do you think it's fair that you as an afk cloaker can live in total safety while being in space while others can't live in safety except for in stations?


They are 100% for the same reason you are 100% safe when docked or in a POS forcefield. You can do nothing to them, they can do nothing to you. Balance.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#296 - 2013-09-24 20:04:37 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
And why do you think it's fair that you as an afk cloaker can live in total safety while being in space while others can't live in safety except for in stations?


Let us take the above and examine it in closer details. The "total safety" you speak off comes with these drawbacks:


  • Paper thin tank
  • Lose your defence (Cloak) if anything gets inside 2000m of you
  • Cannot fire weapons or activate modules while cloaked
  • Cannot transition between Gate Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak seemlessly giving instalocking gate campers a chance to catch you


Now please point to which part is the "total safety" part of flying a Cov-Ops Ship cos I'm dying to know.

EDIT:

And the "AFK Cloaker" status is a myth as you can't for certainty say anyone is AFK as there is no AFK Status for anyone in New Eden so quit with the AFK Cloaker this and AFK Cloaker that. Maybe he isn't active, then again, maybe he and he's about to land a world of hurt on you cos you failed to prepare and so prepared only to fail. HTFU son and get on with it.

If you are in a system I jump into the server loads me into the Local chat channel before I even get to see the grid. This gives you decision time and if you are on the gate you'll have engagement opportunities or be able to post up in an intel channel...that is all before I even get to see what's on the other side and when I do...I'm vulnerable as a wet paper towel while I transition from Gate Invul Cloak to Cov-Ops cloak.

"Assume no-one is AFK, everyone is an enemy unless explicitly set otherwise and prepare accordingly" NBSI, terms and conditions apply Smile

Again, you fail totally by understanding what i'm trying to say here. What i'm saying is that it's not about what YOU think about yourself or your cloaked ships, it's about what the other players in that system thinks of you as a threat. The point here is that the other players have to live in danger and fear to someone who might be afk. Why is that?

Why can't the cloaker who are afk feel the danger and the risk to from the others in local by going afk?

Why should everyone else feel the danger and risk and not you just because you are afk in a cloaked ship?

You are supposed to be safe in that ship as long you are active, not when you are afk. That's the point.


Me, me, me, me.

If you are going to talk about cloaks, then discussiong cloaks is reasonable.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#297 - 2013-09-24 20:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Alundil wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Now how do you know they aren't active.

By using the OP's idea with a new ship class. If they are active, then we wont be able to find them and decloak them with the new ship class as they are moving around. If they infact are afk, then we can find the ship and decloak them with the new ship class with some work.

The same thing will ofc apply to any cloaked ships that are afk.

So then to defeat this idea and invalidate your point...all one must do is setup their max orbit distance on a gate or other static object in space and orbit while cloaked forever and go back to doing whatever it was that they were doing (intel gathering, posting on EVE-O, reddit, pron, watching movie, chatting in in-game channels, sending ingame mail, managing orders, manipulating market, using PI interface, etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum - because you have no idea what they are doing while they are cloaked and you shouldn't - because cloak). Good luck finding a relatively small sphere/cube/vector/whatever in space that is moving at a minimum of ~150m/s that you cannot see.

Right back where you started aren't you?

Then the new ship vessel needs a tool to fix that to. Again, no one should be able to stay in space with no risks, not even cloakers. The only time where you can be more sure that you are more safer is only when YOU as a person is controlling the ship and not where EVE is controlling your ship.

As i also said earlier in this topic, the idea might be a bit different than the op already have put together before it eventually would get to the final part. And like i have said many times already, no one should be safe in space no matter what ship you are in as long you are outside of a POS or a station. PERIOD.

There needs to be adjustments for the cloaking mechanic so those who use cloaks can have more risks when they are afk and not controlling the ships in the same way as everyone else have risks in space when they would go afk where no one is controlling their ships except for some EVE Online functions.

Teckos Pech wrote:
They are 100% for the same reason you are 100% safe when docked or in a POS forcefield. You can do nothing to them, they can do nothing to you. Balance.

The difference here is that if they are in a POS or a station, they KNOW they are there being afk, because they can watch them with others or with alts. So they know when they are moving out of station and so on.

Yes, everyone else have to dock up to be safe, why shouldn't you?

Oh, you can't dock you say?

Then find another system where you can dock or log off. You know, EVE isn't easy mode.

This is a totally different case than the case with afk cloaking.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Alundil
Rolled Out
#298 - 2013-09-24 20:46:54 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

Then the new ship vessel needs a tool to fix that to. Again, no one should be able to stay in space with no risks, not even cloakers.The only time where you can be more sure that you are more safer is only when YOU as a person is controlling the ship and not where EVE is controlling your ship.


There is nothing to fix. I am controlling my ship.....as far as you or anyone else, including CCP, knows. I set my cloaked ship to orbit a stationary object 165km away travelling at 450m/s. I, the pilot, am still at my computer. I am not touching my keyboard. I am not AFK as far as anyone knows (now or ever). That's the point you (and others) don't understand.

PERIOD.

NightmareX wrote:
As i also said earlier in this topic, the idea might be a bit different than the op already have put together before it eventually would get to the final part. And like i have said many times already, no one should be safe in space no matter what ship you are in as long you are outside of a POS or a station. PERIOD.


AKF Rat/Mine more?
Because if YOU are paying attention and playing the game, YOU won't be caught and killed by any cloaked ship.

NightmareX wrote:
There needs to be adjustments for the cloaking mechanic so those who use cloaks can have more risks when they are afk and not controlling the ships in the same way as everyone else have risks in space when they would go afk where no one is controlling their ships except for some EVE Online functions.


I am using the module and ingame navigational tools provided by CCP to pilot my ship in a automatically repeating, neverending orbit around an object CCP placed in space, with a GUI tool CCP provided to all pilots making use of a module CCP developed and which can be utilized by all pilots on all ships with few exceptions. If I choose to orbit an object and then stare at the scenic vista provided by the art team's nebulas I am fully within my right to do so. No one can gainsay that. I am not breaking any rules, violating any ToS, or negatively interacting with any other player(s).

And the best part is I am present at my keyboard, as far as you or anyone else is concerned, going about my business floating in your space cloaked handling my business.

You don't like non-blue people in your sovereign space doing things you don't know about. But you lack the game smarts and intestinal fortitude to do anything at all about it so you choose to "legislate" your desires onto those around you via developer intervention. That's petty and wrong. You're, of course, entitled to do so but that doesn't change the fact that it's a pretty petty attempt at dictating to others how they should play the game.

I accidentally your point.

I'm right behind you

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#299 - 2013-09-24 21:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Alundil wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Now how do you know they aren't active.

By using the OP's idea with a new ship class. If they are active, then we wont be able to find them and decloak them with the new ship class as they are moving around. If they infact are afk, then we can find the ship and decloak them with the new ship class with some work.

The same thing will ofc apply to any cloaked ships that are afk.

So then to defeat this idea and invalidate your point...all one must do is setup their max orbit distance on a gate or other static object in space and orbit while cloaked forever and go back to doing whatever it was that they were doing (intel gathering, posting on EVE-O, reddit, pron, watching movie, chatting in in-game channels, sending ingame mail, managing orders, manipulating market, using PI interface, etc etc etc etc etc ad nauseum - because you have no idea what they are doing while they are cloaked and you shouldn't - because cloak). Good luck finding a relatively small sphere/cube/vector/whatever in space that is moving at a minimum of ~150m/s that you cannot see.

Right back where you started aren't you?

Then the new ship vessel needs a tool to fix that to. Again, no one should be able to stay in space with no risks, not even cloakers. The only time where you can be more sure that you are more safer is only when YOU as a person is controlling the ship and not where EVE is controlling your ship.

As i also said earlier in this topic, the idea might be a bit different than the op already have put together before it eventually would get to the final part. And like i have said many times already, no one should be safe in space no matter what ship you are in as long you are outside of a POS or a station. PERIOD.

There needs to be adjustments for the cloaking mechanic so those who use cloaks can have more risks when they are afk and not controlling the ships in the same way as everyone else have risks in space when they would go afk where no one is controlling their ships except for some EVE Online functions.

Teckos Pech wrote:
They are 100% for the same reason you are 100% safe when docked or in a POS forcefield. You can do nothing to them, they can do nothing to you. Balance.

The difference here is that if they are in a POS or a station, they KNOW they are there being afk, because they can watch them with others or with alts. So they know when they are moving out of station and so on.

Yes, everyone else have to dock up to be safe, why shouldn't you?

Oh, you can't dock you say?

Then find another system where you can dock or log off. You know, EVE isn't easy mode.

This is a totally different case than the case with afk cloaking.


I believe you have a false premise. A cloaked ship is 100% safe when its cloak is active because they pose 0 threat to other players, much like a docked player or a player POSed up. Being is space is not the relevant criteria.

Another false premise is knowlege a person is AFK when in station or a POS, we don't know that either.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#300 - 2013-09-24 21:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Alundil wrote:
There is nothing to fix. I am controlling my ship.....as far as you or anyone else, including CCP, knows. I set my cloaked ship to orbit a stationary object 165km away travelling at 450m/s. I, the pilot, am still at my computer. I am not touching my keyboard. I am not AFK as far as anyone knows (now or ever). That's the point you (and others) don't understand.

PERIOD.

According to you, there is nothing to fix, because you just don't want to admit it that you are safe with no risks at all and want's to abuse the system for your pleasures while others can't do the same without risks. And now, i'm here to let you know that you are weak if you don't see the things i'm talking about. And i'm also here to support a change to the current cloaking mechanic so we can have a way to actually find and destroy afk cloakers with some work.

And if you let the ship orbit a station at 165 km and still sits at the computer and watch it, you are not afk. You would be able to react pretty much instantly if ***** hits the fan or if you are close to get decloaked by something in space.

You wouldn't be able to do this if you are afk doing something else outside of the computer.

See, you don't see the differences from being afk to be active. Wake up dude.

Alundil wrote:
Because if YOU are paying attention and playing the game, YOU won't be caught and killed by any cloaked ship.

That's according to the cloaker / you. Not according to the others in system. I'm talking about that the others in the system should be able to find the cloaker IF he's afk and nowhere near his computer. Because he can't prevent his ship from declaking then. You can prevent this if you are active.

Alundil wrote:
I am using the module and ingame navigational tools provided by CCP to pilot my ship in a automatically repeating, neverending orbit around an object CCP placed in space, with a GUI tool CCP provided to all pilots making use of a module CCP developed and which can be utilized by all pilots on all ships with few exceptions. If I choose to orbit an object and then stare at the scenic vista provided by the art team's nebulas I am fully within my right to do so. No one can gainsay that. I am not breaking any rules, violating any ToS, or negatively interacting with any other player(s).

And the best part is I am present at my keyboard, as far as you or anyone else is concerned, going about my business floating in your space cloaked handling my business.

You are not afk then. You will alt-tab in and out of EVE to check if you are all fine if you are doing something else on the computer then.

When you leave the computer, you leave the ship to the EVE's functions and not to your own funtions that is you body. See the differences?

Alundil wrote:
You don't like non-blue people in your sovereign space doing things you don't know about. But you lack the game smarts and intestinal fortitude to do anything at all about it so you choose to "legislate" your desires onto those around you via developer intervention. That's petty and wrong. You're, of course, entitled to do so but that doesn't change the fact that it's a pretty petty attempt at dictating to others how they should play the game.

I accidentally your point.

I have no problems that i have neutrals or hostiles in my sovereign space. The problem is that i don't have a way or tools to remove the cloaked ship / player from the system if he's afk. Like i have said, if you are afk, you will have high risks of getting decloaked and killed. If you are active with your computer and watches eve, you will most likely don't die as it's YOU who are controlling YOUR ship and not the automaticly EVE funtions.

So you can believe all you want that you accidentally my points.

Your problem is that you don't see the problem that a player like you in a cloaked ship can cause so much fear for someone by not being active at the computer. If you can make that much fear by that, then why shouldn't we be allowed to have a tool to give you some fear if you decide to go afk in space, witch is pretty much the only way we can cause fear to the afk cloakers?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama