Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Oh no, this is not that powerful.

They have to be within the range of your ship to lock onto them, just like you would any other ship under normal circumstances.

Anything outside of your range you can still see, but you cannot expose unless you get in range.

And you cannot use MWD, or any module that a cloaked vessel could not also use.

Also, the ship you target can see your effort to target them, and is not exposed until the lock is complete. No active sensor booster can be used either, since a cloaked vessel cannot use them.

Not shooting for easy. Trying to balance by duplicating the limits and requirements used by cloaking, and it turns out this actually makes more sense the more I get into it.

Now, if you actually read the OP, or even understood the thread title's context, you would see this thread is about a method to hunt cloaked vessels.
The qualifying requirement is that local no longer report cloaked vessels for no effort, which explains said title.

But still, let's answer your points.


Disingenuous much?

Here is something that is difficult for many to grasp, but is an important detail that those hunting will not have an advantage because of local being missing.

The advantage will always belong to whoever has sov, simply because the intel channels and patrols supplying them will be a huge advantage.

Those hunting in hostile territory will be on their own, and with no local to artificially tell them where everyone is, chances are they will have no idea.
They can, of course, guess, or do research to learn where people usually hang out, but unless someone spies for them and tips them where to look, they will be effectively blind.

Local is never the friend of PvE. PvE has a far more obvious advantage trading it in for an intel channel while the hunters are blind.


Big places to hide, big challenges to control.


I get that worm holes do not have local.
The argument that those wanting to remove local should move into a wh, falls flat due to the other differences between the two play areas.

I also acknowledge these differences make wormholes unique. This does not, however, mean that the delayed local mechanic can only work in this environment. It just means wormholes have multiple mechanics designed to isolate them and limit them to what can happen inside.

If you want to discuss local further, it's the first link in my signature below.

So local is gone, hu? Exciting thought... let's see.

1) Interstellar communication would only be possible with and to stations... and directly between ships... if the ships use the same channel and are actually broadcasting.
2) Direct communication (chat) would only be possible inside the same station.
3) There could be a "comm burst" every ship, system wide would hear... but if a ship has all it's comms down, the only way to find it would be to scan it down.

That sounds pretty exciting!

Yea, I know, the biggest issue, in my opinion, always was the "local chat" where everyone is visible... well, almost everyone. Not only is it unrealistic, it also makes no sense from a gameplay point of view.

Uncertain what you mean, you do know this thread is describing a means to hunt cloaked ships, and the title refers to the condition being met, I hope.

While I see why you people don't want local, think about the industrials for christ sake. without local, null sec industry would die. Ganking miners would be the equivalent to shooting a suspect flagged freighter in high sec. Easy, and without fear of being shot back.

As for AFK cloakers being able to shut down null sec money making operations completely for fear of hotdrops, the risk would be far greater than the current null sec rewards are if local was removed. There would definitely have to be a counter for cloaking ships in a system in which Sov is controlled.

They pay the (sov) bills while you get free kills?

Uh, no. There would need to be a home field advantage of some kind.

Oh, they have a fleet on standby or even on grid with the miners? A fleet of 3 bombers would simply lol at them as they drop bombs on their way to a celestial they were pre-aligned to. And oh? They had a hictor? Well last time I checked a single hulk is worth about triple those 3 stealth bombers. Easy trade to make. Not to mention the manpower required to get so little isk while risking several billion in a mining op.

I don't really have any suggestions other than to keep local the way it is, and leave the nullybears alone, its dangerous enough for them now that ore sites are able to be warped to instantly, rather than requiring any planning or preparation to probe out and bookmark these sites ahead of time.

While I do agree AFK cloaking is pretty OP when you look at it from a tactical standpoint, I mean 1 person shuts down an entire system, I also say that no local is not the OP part of that relationship, after all it is the home field of the inhabitants. And yes, cyno jammers are a line of defense against afk cloakers, it can still be bypassed by harder-to-track covert ops hot drops with the same bridge range, not to mention easier to escape from the system via exit bridge from a BLOPS BS.

However, any real counters to cloaking seem to make the inhabitants completely invincible against engagements they don't want to happen. So there has to be a balance point somewhere, I'm just not the one with the answer to that XD.

Details explained more, copied from another thread for this module:
Basing off of my cloak hunting module specifically, as referenced in the thread linked in my sig:

With the hunter module active, you can see the cloaked ship, if you would have been able to see it uncloaked.
With the hunter module active, you can lock the cloaked ship, if you would have been able to lock it uncloaked.
With the hunter module active, you can probe the cloaked ship, if you would have been able to probe it uncloaked.

Let's say you are going for maximum effect here, and using a falcon to hunt with.
You can target up to 120 KM away, but if they are in a frigate you won't catch them unless they are AFK.

You have to target and lock them first. This keeps them uncloaked so long as you are in range to maintain that lock.
After they are locked, others can see them and then lock them too. OR, you can shut down your hunting module, and try to shoot them yourself.
At the time you finish locking them, others can also begin trying to lock them. They will also know you uncloaked them.
Given a frigate's low signature, and time to warp, they will most likely be able to get off grid before DPS can be applied.

Ok, so lets say you want the ultimate scanning ship type, and use a Buzzard to hunt with. (Ultimate is a relative term, in this context, any ship able to mount a covert ops cloak can also use the hunting module uninterrupted by warping)
You can target up to 50 KM away, and you might be able to keep up with a frigate too.
But if they are in a cruiser, they can pop you, and you probably showed up on target before any cruisers you had supporting you.
They have to follow you, after all.

This is not only cat and mouse, it is rock / paper / scissors.
If you try to catch the wrong cloaked ship, it either will have an easy time evading you, or be a serious threat to take you out before help arrives in time.

I would suggest that the gate cloak effect leaves a lingering protection on ships newly arrived, guesstimated at twice the duration of a current gate cloak, which blocks ships from being detected in a system while still at gate vicinity.
This effect would drop once off grid from the gate, or the timer, whichever came first.

We can hope.

Meanwhile, don't forget to visit the sister thread to this one, which details a version of local that meets the balance needs for this thread's idea.
It also grants two other tactics immunity from local, with a price.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=186549&p=1

You want the other thread, this one details an idea related to hunting cloaked ships, and relies on local already being modified for balance.

This point was already responded to.
It is a misconception regarding the impact on cloaked vessels, assuming nothing is being gained, only lost in the form of greater risk.

Who said anything about cloaky nerfs?

In order for this to occur, local must not display cloaked pilots as being present.

Many cloaked pilots have indicated interest in trading this free intel in exchange for being able to actually hunt.

The only thing stopping PvP on both sides is local itself. If local goes fully delayed, or really any variation where cloaked vessels are left out, then this is the trade off for that.

Now, instead of instantly knowing a cloaked pilot is present, but being unable to do anything about it... (current situation that results in a stalemate until one side gives up and logs / leaves)
People will never know a cloaked vessel is present, unless it does something to draw attention to itself. Then, they can hunt for it, on the assumption it has not left and is still present to be found.
They can also perform routine hunts, on the off chance a cloaked vessel succeeded in sneaking in without being seen.

All aspects require effort, noone is being broadcast for free.

This game aspect would finally require effort, not dumbed down into ending in a predictable stalemate.