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just out of interrest...don't u ppl think that there is sth fundamentaly broken with projectiles when people start to fit them on all ships? or on generaly on hulls from races never intended to fit projectiles...??

*SNUGGLE*

OMG! Reasonable effective changes.... o.O

Tallest, I want you to have my child....




....seriously... I don't want it anymore... You can name it Bob...

\o/

there is not such a limitation in this game every hull can be fitted with everything, you are only limited by fitting requirement like cpu and powergrid, by cap usage, by how many turret or missile slot the hull have and in the end by the hull bonus; ship like the abbadon don't have a very good bonus on the firepower so you can fit projectile turret easly with a gain in efficiency due to the lack of cap usage, good damage, and thanks to the bonus on the resistances a very good tank.
But it's ok if a ship is very good the problem is that currently this ship is 100 time more efficent thant the others except the pest probably.

Railgun tracking is still too low. If you want to shoot at range I should be enhancing optimal and not tracking when over 70km.

DPS is still crap, If I traded volleys (adjusting for RoF) with a Tornado even standing still I'll still be out-DPS's at range. Rails should do fantastic at range, crap up close. If you want to keep tracking like it is, then boost optimal and damage more.

Pattern you're hitting it dead on that many of these changes have to do with damage at extreme range and the types of ships.

If a Rokh is to be used as a sniper ship, give it the agility to warp out faster. Reduce the sig penalty of shield extenders (making sniping ships harder to hit for full damage) or give them a tracking bonus so that they can hit while moving themselves.

BUT, that being said there is an issue with the ammo.

No matter what, here's what you have with projectiles:

3 range modifiers- 50%, 0, -50%
EM bonused Proton ammo (if Caldari are shield tankers, you make them easiest to hit at long range)
tracking speed multiplier

Rails you're running either a range penalty of -60% to -12% with only 3 range bonuses and 1... ONE at range. All the rest reduce the range.

Longest range hybrid ammo does least damage, and antimatter most but with penalty. These should be reversed in essence.

dont wanna sound like a broken record here, but a lot of people's subs depend on these balancing changes. anything happening over there?

If only there was a way of keeping the tanking bonus too... Or maybe just add midslots in return for the lost resist bonus...

It pains me to see the last 100 posts. I see a lot of players darting around the issue entirely. It pains me even more to see we've gone on for about a week and not a peep from CCP. There are a significant amount of players making some rather absurd suggestions, suggestions which, if implemented, would effectively obsolete MWDs, or require damps be fit on all blaster boats to get the most out them (WHAT???). Please PLEASE stop trying to the fix the problem with other modules or other passive "Gallente-only" bonuses. All you're doing is letting hybrids remain the stagnant and stale weapon systems they already are. You've contributed nothing. You've fixed nothing. Please stop.

This also goes for CCP. Please remove the notion increasing damage, tracking, and ship speeds is the end-all-beat-all answer to hybrid shortcomings. Yes, they need these things, but even with these changes, no one is going to choose hybrids because there is no native benefit to them. Hybrids need to provide something to the pilot simply for being fitted, something realized and applied BEFORE a shot is fired. Hybrids must appeal to the pilot because of some native benefit. This was very plainly conveyed in post #548, citing numerous players who agree hybrids are simply lacking. Hybrids absolutely need something to contend with the following:

• Projectiles: alpha, cap free use, relies only on falloff to become viable , choose damage type, on the fastest ships in the game
• Lasers: instant ammo swap and effective range, no reload, dominant optimal range further magnified by scorch, highest EHP ships in the game

The above traits of lasers and projectiles are, and always will be, the selling points and it is why they are chosen over hybrids. Hybrids MUST be given something to compete with the above; something in addition to and beyond improving hybrid turret stats. They must provide the pilot with a passive benefit, a role, a niche, a concept. Call it whatever you want. Many players have stated repeatedly hybrids are missing this. Without this, there is no reason to use hybrids, in spite of the proposed changes, and in spite of the effort by CCP to address the overwhelming amount of complaints stating hybrids are weak.

Just as much, I think it is equally accurate to say hybrid turrets lack personality!!!

Please CCP/Tallest/devs, whoever is listening, please state you understand there is a fundamental shortcoming of hybrids and something will be done to address this. It's something beneath damage increases, beyond tracking increases, and much simpler than modifications to Gallente/Caldari ships. Hybrids need to give the pilot some inherent advantage just for being used, and if it does, then it WILL be used. Failure to recognize this will mean hybrids remain unpopular and unused. This is not rocket surgery....

To give you an idea, hybrids could:

• be the only weapon system to apply true omni damage, even all of its total volley to each em/thr/kin/exp damage type
• operate with instant ammo swapping AND no cap requirements, while retaining most or all of their currently deplorable statistics
• drain the receiving end's capacitor by one-to-five percent of the volley damage
• have ammo types exceeding competitive projectile/laser turret stats; imagine all t2 rail and blaster ammo as impactful/effective as scorch

Each of these four suggestions don't actually change anything beyond the turrets. They give hybrids a unique and APPLICABLE personality. These are the kinds of fundamental changes hybrids need for a pilot to ask himself "Hrm, hybrids would be PERFECT for XYZ!" Sure, blasters are top notch in the DPS world, but realistically, that damage never gets applied because Gallente ships are armor tanked and are simply too slow (yes, even after considering the proposed changes). Sure, railguns can reach some pretty incredible ranges with Caldari bonuses, but because of warp-to range limitations and pathetic railgun damage, the approach is impossible to realize.

Put your thinking caps on. These suggestions are the kind which could bring life back to the hybrid platform. It goes beyond turret stat increases. It goes beyond ship stat increases. It's even beyond ammo in most cases. Hybrids must appeal to the pilot for providing passive benefits. Hybrids must do something which cannot be done by projectiles or lasers!!! Hybrids must fill a role. Hybrids need an applicable personality, a niche. I am stating the same thing several different ways. The lacking of the yet-to-be-determined traits is the biggest difference between hybrids and projectiles/lasers. Failure to give hybrids some real flair will result in no change; a continuation of hybrids residing in a sub-par league of its own.

Again, the player community has stated this many times, and a summary of such can be found here. Read it, understand it, and please do something about it.

Having hybrids reduce a target's capacitor instead of a damage buff would be interesting. It's a really good idea and nice twist to the game but it would require a lot of :effort: that CCP can't put forth.

Maybe Tallest is not working full time on this problem?
I think, it's not about if someone is smart or not, it's all about resources...

Just my 2 cents.