EVE General Discussion

I'm a girl. I think if they get WIS online where we can go SHOPPING, hang out at the club, and make more clothing/hair options so we can be HAWTER than ever it may draw more of us in :)

Seriously, the games that women play (facebook games) seem to be the homemaking, clothes buying, farming type of games. I've always loved those things, but I also love things like skydiving, rappelling, and snorkeling. So maybe it's an adventurous type female that would be more drawn to this game. If some of the women would just give it a month and get their feet wet they may end up liking it here though.

In short: your attitude that if 8 of your corp members act like jerks to 2 of your other corp members, then it's the fault of the 2 for being in the minority, not the fault of the 8 for being jerks.

I'm fortunate to be in an alliance where the leadership takes a very different attitude to yours, and believe me we rip on each other plenty, but we manage to do it without alienating our female members, or blaming them for feeling excluded.

Some suggestions:

1) Make PI more graphical and allow slaver hounds to chase after tiny DUST guys on planets (think: Happy Farm... er.. Planets).
2) Interactive WIS, chats and allow fellow capsuleers to hug/carry each other around (to be fair, allow same gender huggings etc as well).
3) Allow engagement, marriage and birthday parties (and sell wedding rings that beeps/glows when the partner logs on).
4) Allow capsuleers who are married ability to combine 2 ships into Voltron that offers special attacks.
5) Eve beauty contests.

That. Is a lot of question marks.

So, what is it with calling people cavemen lately? What is that supposed to imply?

Well, if this thread was posted on the front page of eveonline, you can effectively say it's not recruitment material for women.

First issue is PvP in itself, when PvE is more fun. PvE offers more activities as well, especially the activities ladies prefer to do.

So that's a major barrier to overcome in itself. Especially when CCP is adamant that the game is about PvP.

The other barrier is dealing with the "I HATE GIRLz!!!" stage guys be it natural (junior high boys), or from experience (fallout with girlfriends; divorces). Will ladies pay to play in that environment? Especially when little details about VOIP convos turn out to be an issue against all women.

The other issues are the dynamics. Do they want to deal with players that resemble little brothers or hen picked guys? How's the policies with creeps, as geeks tend to be, to put it nicely, "off" on the other sex?

Then there's activities in a set culture that's pretty old and dinosaur like. What can EvE offer that won't upset the apple cart, nor insult the intelligence of ladies?

And if folks aren't willing to honestly confront these details, the chances of women even making 20% of the population will be pretty nil. Especially when other games don't have these roadblocks.

Well I haven't even touched the aurum I got for free from CCP which is I believe a total of 5500. I'm really not interested in the Nex Store. Though I must say when the red shirt came out, a lot of men were hunting the shirt to add to their collection.

As for character customization ... I only touch that one if I'm beyond bored and really don't know or don't feel like I want to do anything.

It would however help if men wouldn't be so patronizing. I understand their need to protect women and if they can't protect they'll have to attack, you know how that works. It's just really old fashion.

Also there is a major difference between the tough men chatter (measuring weener sizes), which I have absolutely no issues with, and the flat out blabbing idiots who scream stuff about women belong in kitchens and what not ... getting so old and boring.

Men require females to act like women as do women require males to act like men.

I have cleaned up this topic and am unlocking it. Refrain from anything that's sexist or the like and we'll be fine.

I'd say that a large part of the problem is you and people like you. You explicitly say that you're not willing to change your culture. That culture is largely responsible for keeping women away (it's utter bullshit to say that women don't like sci-fi, or that EVE can't be an appealing game for women, so let's not even go down that route).

It goes back to my first remark: Everything is peachy for you and people like you. You don't have a problem so you can't see why anyone else should have a problem. No one in your corp is saying anything that offends you, so if anyone else is offended then that's their problem.

But it doesn't maybe occur to you that, at the very least, you're losing out on good recruits because you're not willing to confront a problem within your corp. Instead, you're defending and enabling the people who are acting like jerks to potential female recruits.

When I said that we don't do that in our alliance, that's true now, but it didn't used to be that way. I recruited a very good in game friend of mine to VANIS a couple of years ago, but after a few months he left, and I was pretty disappointed. It turned out that he left because, when I wasn't around, there were a few players in INIT. who were making really offensive anti-American comments, and after a while he understandably got sick of it. He didn't mention it to me because he assumed that we'd take the attitude that you're taking - that it was up to him to adapt to the majority, so our corp lost a top-tier prober and I lost a good in game friend.

Later he told me why he left and I passed the info on to our leadership who came down on the offenders hard. Now we have US players again and things are good because we don't tell them that it's their fault for "causing trouble" for being offended by anti-American remarks.

When your guys can't stop tripping over their dicks and act like idiots to female players, I don't care if its 20 of your guys acting that way over 1 woman; they're in the wrong for acting that way, not her for not liking it, and you're in the wrong for not calling them on it. As the corp CEO it's supposed to be exactly your job to tell people who are being ****** to your members to back off, even if the offenders are also your members.

Why on earth would you defend a corp member's right to be crappy to another corp member, instead of confronting them? Because you'd rather side with 8 guys than 2? Wow. I'm glad I'm not in your corp, because who the hell could rely on you to back them up when they were in a tight spot? Awesome leadership you're showing there mate.

Well … you can't discuss sexism without pointing out some of the more egregious displays of such

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_essentialism#Essentialism_and_society_and_politics

tl;dr: No you're wrong and wrong in a horrible way.

Women aren't all the same, and there are a percentage of them who are or would be quite happy to play EVE the way it is. Of those of them who would like to play EVE but don't, a very large fraction aren't playing because people like Kaarous.

I'm perfectly willing to agree that not many women would want to play EVE, but then again, not all that many men want to either. EVE is already a niche game because it's sandboxy, FFA PvP, full loot, dark & merciless. But that's no reason to allow it to be pushed into the even tighter niche of FFA PvP, sandboxy, full loot, dark, merciless and culturally hostile to women.

If there are 10,000 women playing EVE right now, then I don't think it's a great stretch to believe that there are another 10k out there who'd play if they could log onto comms without hearing "**** or gtfo".