Skill Discussions

Beginning the fourth month of the OP's absence from this thread (over 2 months absent from the forums at all), and people are still replying directly to him. This is actually becoming sort of impressive.

OP is long gone ... but felt I needed to post as a new player myself

This is my third attempt @ Eve

The first two times, like the OP, I got frustrated with the perceived "sp wall" and as well as poor choices as to what to do in the game. The fact that I was heavily invested in other MMO's at the time made it easy to walk away from Eve.

This time around ...

I am not involved in any other MMO's

I have reassessed the "SP wall" and can rationally view it no differently than starting as a new subscriber/player in any other established MMO. For example, I never played Age of Conan. I wouldn't expect to be doing end game content in AoC as a brand new player within my first 2-3 months of that game ... and I shouldn't be expecting any differently in Eve.

I have firmly grounded my expectations, that for the first 6 months to perhaps even a year ... that my time spent in Eve will be no different than the time spent leveling a new character in any other MMO. The fact that Eve is a sandbox I think fools many players, that lack of direction (ie quest hubs etc of Theme Park MMOs) leaves them feeling they should be able to jump into a capital ship their first week and be pew pewing people.

Instead, they should always keep in mind that to compare themselves as a brand new player to a capsuler with 50-100mil SP is folly. It should be no different than comparing a level 1 toon in WoW to a level 90 End Game raider who has played religiously since launch. The SP's earned over time are no different than a combination of your level and gear in any other MMO.

This time around, I've come to the realization that my enjoyment of Eve will be based on the goals I set for myself rather than the envy I may have of other players.

You spend a lot of time speaking authoritatively about things that you don't understand very well.

I have a small farm of "narrowly trained alts" and that has ****-all to do with either training time or medclone costs (and really, I don't care how many SPs you have, if your medclone is a major expense to you, you're utterly inept). It revolves more around logistics and basic capacity than anything else.

Logistically, I'm not about to keep my combat pilot in the same region as my POS to plug in jobs around the clock. That would be silly. I'm not going to fly him to Jita every time I need to move some merchandise, either.

Capacity-wise, a given character is limited to, at most, 11 lab slots and 11 manufacturing slots. This is a fraction of what I actually need for an efficient operation. This has nothing to do with training time, it's a hard limitation.

Same goes for PI, market slots, etc.


TL;DR version: You should spend less time whining and more time actually learning about the game so you can avoid making so many abundantly false shitposts.

This game is far from unique in the fact that people have alt accounts for different things..

I have 6 accounts on Dofus still simply because it was easier to run dungeons with my own team rather than rely on others who might screw up the run. It also got me a nice set of different skills to do it.

Also you could only learn 3 professions on a character so with 6 I could max all of them out and not have to find someone in game to make something for me.

No matter which mmo you play you'll see the same similarities in every game.

Yeah... this is a complete fabrication, now. There are no (or very, very few) characters going unused because it's just too expensive to pay the medclone costs. They're just not THAT expensive. At 106 million SPs, mine are on the expensive end of the spectrum at 21 million. I PvP with two +4s plugged in, bringing my total podding expense to about 60 million. I don't really consider myself among the spacerich, and this is entirely affordable.

Most alts tend to be cyno alts, trade alts, manufacturing alts, supercap holding alts, etc. I don't think I've ever heard of an, "I just can't afford to PvP on my main," alt. I'm sure there are a handful of excessively risk-averse numpties that do it, but your characterization of it as being so common that it's effectively THE reason people make alts makes you little more than a garden variety liar.

Which new player is going to have 30mil ISK?

Don't know about you, but even if I did rat in null, or was into moon goo, 30mil ISK is still a lot. To you it may not be, but get podded 2x, and that's nearly 1/5 of a PLEX.

Can you see the issue now -- 1/5 of a PLEX getting podded just twice?

....which new player is going to need 30 mil Isk (21, now) to cover an up-to-120m SP clone? Seriously starting to suspect you are a Tom Gerard alt.

Also, this:



...rather nicely underscores what I suggested earlier about your general level of knowledge about the game.

I don't rat in null, and I don't mine moon goo, and somehow, my clone costs are still inconsequential to me. How can this be?!?

Moon mining is good organizational income. Ratting in null is far from top tier. Neither make good examples for the point you were trying to make.

I expect you've never actually participated in "high level" Eve content, because you keep making arguments premised on fabrications. It's pretty obvious that you spend a lot of time reading the forum, and you've cobbled together this imagined alternate Eve universe from bits and pieces that you've gleaned, but you've done so preferentially, and completely ignore just about any information that doesn't fit into your rather dystopian personal rendition of the game.

Your reasoning for why people typically use alts, for instance, is objectively wrong. You seem to have taken two different data points...

1. Lots of people have lots of alts.
and
2. Some people complain about medclone costs being too high.

...and fallaciously cobbled these two typically-unrelated matters into a causal relationship, which you've then used as the basis for a number of decidedly false statements, e.g.:



The scenario you're describing here just doesn't happen. It's a fiction. A high-SP character is not an antique car that you only take out for the occasional low-velocity drive on an idyllic summer day. Most players, by the time they get to a point where their clone cost is even marginally noteworthy, have also gained a good deal of experience in earning ISK. I explained to you what people actually mostly use alts for and instead of actually responding to that, you just doubled down, reiterating the same work of fiction, as if repetition would somehow magically render it true.

long training time is a good thing. this isnt wow where you can be the best at everything in less than 3 months. the long training seperates the real players from the nubs who wont learn about the game and quit after 3 months. ive been playing this game for quite a long time and im still learning new things about it. i love this game and id say never cut down the training time.

I don't understand the point of your post:

Why do we need to distinguish between a "clueless vet" and a mediocre Noob? A smart player can defeat either one, regardless of SP!

The major counter-point of this thread is that: A low-sp character can kill an older player, which is a major improvement over other MMO's (where a low level character can't do jack to a high level character). Sure, they may not be able to win the mirror match, but EvE PvP rarely centers around mirror matches. A "decent player" should find this very appealing, not the contrary!

Now, who does this "lose appeal to"? The Power Gamer!!!

A power gamer will probably be frustrated because they can't fit the "absolute best" with "perfect skills" quickly, but who cares about them. These are the players that EXPECT their perfectly-skilled BS to take on 10 newbs in dessies and live, and that's simply NOT how EvE functions! Frankly, I don't want CCP to cater to this mentality!

I realize some highly-OCD players probably get frustrated too, but if started catering to their whims, every ship would have to be symmetrical, every prop mod would have to go in midslot #1, and you'd have to click three times to target an object!