EVE General Discussion

I confess I am fascinated with EVE. I still don't know if I actually like the game of the game yet. Still in my noobosity looking for it, but really like the EVErse.

That what is represented in this thread seems to happen again and again is fascinating to me and very distinctive about the game. People enter the game. The game has a lot of deterministic structure, but compared to other games a very limited rule set. People often confuse rules and structure.

I have spent a great deal of time over many years creating RW environments with deep structure and very flexible, or even non-existent rule sets in a wide variety of settings, for a wide variety of purposes. I am a type of designer. Some consistent things happen.

When successful in creating such an environment participants often very rapidly come into contact with a rule system and expectations they are carrying around in their own heads, but usually assume exist outside of themselves. EVE is an amazing environment for this. Responses to this moment vary greatly, but the moment is very consistent and recognizable. EVE tears is one kind of response.

The response in which people cannot come to terms with the self generated nature of their own system of rules, generalized expectations, etc. is usually understood in the context of EVE as 'tears'. Something has occurred which does not fit their model of the world, which they take to exist independently from themselves, but paradoxically is also the basis for their functional identity. It is often the case that people in this moment will insist on some wrongness in the world or others, rather than considering whether or not their model is structurally appropriate to what is occurring. More tears.

Often, as in the case of the OP, this seems to involve some fixed, 'authorized' assertion of meaning. Arguments that are proximal to their prefigured model and meaning making are at least considered. Arguments and data that offer meaning outside of their model are dismissed, if they are perceived at all. Sometimes they will complexify their model. Motives are attributed according their own model. There is a consistent investment in 'other' and 'negation' as a way of reinforcing their now 'threatened' identity and world view. Typically the chance that there may be no meaning involved is viewed as completely impossible. More tears.

This moment involves the possibility of a kind of existential crisis. That journey is really quite something. It is also one of the few moments in which liberation and learning are most profoundly available. Creating access to such moments in a safe environment can be considered a compassionate act, as opposed to say encountering them in a situation where the learning curve is so steep that actually dying individually or in great numbers is the consequence of getting it wrong.

In saying this, I am by no means suggesting that everyone or even anyone is consciously seeking to stimulate or particiapte in such existential crisis, emancipatory process or learning. That is the genius of the the thing. Just playing the game seems to result in this again and again. Whether people navigate it 'successfully' or not is another matter altogether.

It is a relatively open environment where you encounter many people of relative diversity. Because of the nature of the environment what you first encounter, however, is yourself. A journey and narrative become available and can be engaged or actively ignored.

You're an ********

Sooo, finally kicked out of GENTS I see. Still want to tell us how you "won" by making a forum post that got you kicked out of your corp and and how you"didn't want to be in GENTS anyway"?

Obligatory disclaimers to address the ever-present trolls:

1) Yes, you can find a recent kill on the killboards of a noobship impairor, which happened in a 0.4 sec system.

2) No, that incident isn't what "caused" this post. This kind of thing has been going on ever since I first started the game over a month ago. It is just the latest thing to make me chuckle, shake my head, and question exactly what is going on.

3) No, I have half a billion in funds right at the moment, so I could care less about the loss of the free noobship, nor the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

4) No, these aren't "carebear tears" or "noobtears" or blah blah, but if you like to "feast" on such things, and you want to imagine that they are, knock yourself out, and more power to you.

5) No, I don't want anything changed about the game.

6) No, I don't want this, or other practices banned.

7) Yes, I understand that PvP can occur anytime in this game, and that you are never "truly safe," least of all in low-sec or null sec or whatever.

So, is there some relevant point I'm missing to what I will call "seemingly mindless PvP?" I'm asking because I truly don't know the answer (in other words, maybe there is a relevant point and I just don't know what it is).

Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.

Anyway, as far as I know, you don't earn "experience points" in this game by killing stuff, do you? And in the examples I am referring to, there is no piracy happening (stuff isn't taken from the victim - in fact there isn't any stuff to take). There are no assets being defended by the perpetrator because the perpetrator is never in a corp which owns the system in question (in fact, as far as I know 0.4 sec can't be owned by player corps), and the perpetrator seems to be operating as a "lone wolf."

At any rate, anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed by what I have termed "seemingly mindless PvP," meaning I can see no relevant point to being aggressed. It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.

4) Perpetrator always takes huge delight in "winning" this engagement, and really seems to "get off" on it. Perpetrator seems to believe he's made some sort of huge accomplishment.

Usually I'm messaged by the perpetrator. The conversation always goes the same. This was the conversation from a recent engagement:

EDIT: Chat logs may not be posted except in certain forums. General discussion is not one of them. Therefore the chat has been deleted - ISD Tyrozan

Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. However, midway through the process I had to stop playing the game to address a real life concern.

I used to go into these lower-sec systems simply to explore my way around the game (I'm merely talking 0.4 systems, not 0 secs or negative secs). After all, all I ever read on the forums is put-downs of so-called "carebears," high-sec'ers, people who live in high-sec or don't venture into low sec, etc. But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).

Oh, these events happen in different systems, not the same system. And the perpetrators are different, not the same.

To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).