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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#221 - 2013-05-12 02:03:22 UTC
The reason your noobship died is because it was there. If I'm sitting somewhere, in my ship, and I see a noobship, I'm gunna shoot it. I'm going to shoot anything that poses no threat. And it's not because its some sort of leet PvP, its because it is there, and I get a killmail.

Actually, I have a rule, you ALWAYS shoot noobships.


Because they drop PLEX's.


Anyways, the way I see PvP is its a challenge.
It's about proving you're better than the other guy, and no, killing a noobship in an insta cane is not proving that you're better.

It's about engaging ******** odds, like 3v1, because when you win, it's the best feeling in the world.
It's about the adrenaline rush of the fight, where you're clutch tanking in your structure, overheating everything. This adrenaline rush beats most adrenaline rushes you get IRL.
It's about those moments when your corpmates ask you on ts "are you dead yet?" and you proudly take a deep breath and proclaim "they're dead".

That is what PvP is, killing noobships isn't PvP, it's opportunity kills.

This is PvP

P.S. I have actually successful done duo pvp in noobships before.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2013-05-12 02:44:45 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

Easy prey will always get killed first.
It's natural. Except when babies are involved.

Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion."

However, most of your points are fine except for the spy/scout/cyno-alt suggestion, which I believe is inaccurate in these cases as this happens to me in 0.4 "non player-corp owned" systems (but I could totally see this logic in null-sec corp. owned systems).


OP, your assumption is incorrect. Normal corps can easily cyno into NPC owned systems. As I regularly PvP in Syndicate, you might find it interesting that noobships are indeed decent scouts - cheap, fast with an MWD, good align. All you need to scout is DSCAN. Noobships also make cheap but decent cyno ships. Also, many corps actively PvP in NPC-owned nullsec and low sec regions, so even though it may look like some people are Kill mail whoring, keep in mind that for all they know, you could be a threat.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-05-12 03:10:06 UTC
Shao Huang wrote:
I confess I am fascinated with EVE. I still don't know if I actually like the game of the game yet. Still in my noobosity looking for it, but really like the EVErse.

That what is represented in this thread seems to happen again and again is fascinating to me and very distinctive about the game. People enter the game. The game has a lot of deterministic structure, but compared to other games a very limited rule set. People often confuse rules and structure.

I have spent a great deal of time over many years creating RW environments with deep structure and very flexible, or even non-existent rule sets in a wide variety of settings, for a wide variety of purposes. I am a type of designer. Some consistent things happen.

When successful in creating such an environment participants often very rapidly come into contact with a rule system and expectations they are carrying around in their own heads, but usually assume exist outside of themselves. EVE is an amazing environment for this. Responses to this moment vary greatly, but the moment is very consistent and recognizable. EVE tears is one kind of response.

The response in which people cannot come to terms with the self generated nature of their own system of rules, generalized expectations, etc. is usually understood in the context of EVE as 'tears'. Something has occurred which does not fit their model of the world, which they take to exist independently from themselves, but paradoxically is also the basis for their functional identity. It is often the case that people in this moment will insist on some wrongness in the world or others, rather than considering whether or not their model is structurally appropriate to what is occurring. More tears.

Often, as in the case of the OP, this seems to involve some fixed, 'authorized' assertion of meaning. Arguments that are proximal to their prefigured model and meaning making are at least considered. Arguments and data that offer meaning outside of their model are dismissed, if they are perceived at all. Sometimes they will complexify their model. Motives are attributed according their own model. There is a consistent investment in 'other' and 'negation' as a way of reinforcing their now 'threatened' identity and world view. Typically the chance that there may be no meaning involved is viewed as completely impossible. More tears.

This moment involves the possibility of a kind of existential crisis. That journey is really quite something. It is also one of the few moments in which liberation and learning are most profoundly available. Creating access to such moments in a safe environment can be considered a compassionate act, as opposed to say encountering them in a situation where the learning curve is so steep that actually dying individually or in great numbers is the consequence of getting it wrong.

In saying this, I am by no means suggesting that everyone or even anyone is consciously seeking to stimulate or particiapte in such existential crisis, emancipatory process or learning. That is the genius of the the thing. Just playing the game seems to result in this again and again. Whether people navigate it 'successfully' or not is another matter altogether.

It is a relatively open environment where you encounter many people of relative diversity. Because of the nature of the environment what you first encounter, however, is yourself. A journey and narrative become available and can be engaged or actively ignored.

Yooooooo EVE has smart people! /thread
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#224 - 2013-05-12 16:25:41 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Translation: "I'm a badplayer, i want to know why everyone is so mean to me when I fly around in a game with space ships and guns and wonder why i got shot, and everyone must adhere to my value system or they are doing it wrong".

You hide behind troling and insult, but the real truth is plain for everyone (but you) to see: You're about 100 iq points less smart than you think you are.

If an entire FORUM of adult game players comes to the same conclusion, what does that mean, Admodai, Xodai? it either means 100% of us are stupid, or you are exccedingly bad at communicating. At every single turn you've proven to not have a real good grasp of reality or any skill at communicating. And everytime someone demonstrates to you your flaws, you try to turn it around, as if theres something wrong with everyone else.

Can you not see your problems. Do you not have ANY moral courage , even that tiny bit that would allow you to look in a mirrior and see why everyone you come across (and I'll bet you cash money in U.S.currency that this happens to you IRL too) dislikes you? Do you think you are some kind of mental genius that NO ONE is smart enough to get what you are saying?

I said in the other thread you are deserving of the ridicule you get, but you also deserve a great deal of pity too, because it seems your problems go way deeper than losing Drakes and noobships in a video game.


You, Sir, Madame, whatever you are... are quite a piece of work. No, really, I mean it. I've never quite seen such a rabid bulldog of a troll before, grabbing a-hold of the trouser leg and shaking like there's no tomorrow. No matter where I go on these forums, no matter what I do, there you are right behind me, feverishly hurling insults, accusations, trollisms, and whatever else. I almost imagine you in a red-faced fury, fingers whacking away on the keyboard like a madman, spittle flying from your lips as you troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.


You're like a troll version of the terminator. If I may borrow a line from the movie, you absolutely WILL NOT STOP! EVER! IT'S WHAT YOU DO! IT'S ALL YOU DO!

The astute among us will note that I've never once in my life addressed you; rather it was you who first addressed me on these forums. And then kept on addressing me. And addressing me. And addressing me. Oh, I've responded a few times here and there, at about a 1 to 10 ratio (once per your 10 times addressing me). But the truth is, it's all been pretty much you.

At any rate, I give up. You win. No, seriously, I mean it. Even if I wanted to (I don't), there's no way I could ever keep up with such purely psychopathic behavior. I mean, the single-minded dedication, the time, the energy expenditure, the SOUL you pour into your efforts.

The bottom line is, I simply could never CARE enough about some human being on the other side of the internet I don't even know, to hate them that much. But you do. You are a far better man, woman, whatever, than I am. And I sincerely mean that.

Well played Sir, Madame, whatever. Well played.


And with every post, you demonstrate your inability to grasp reality or deal with your own problems.

Did Jenn aSide create the original post? Did Jenn aSide write so mayn begining disclaimers that it clued everyone else in on the fact that you KNOW what's wrong with your way of thinkning before you even post? Did Jenn aSide make not one but TWO posts asking the exact same stupid question (ie, why do people PVP in a PVP game?) in the most insanely butthurt fashion possible?

No, you did all of that. There is an old saying around these parts: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Allow me to translate. If you can't stand honest (if blunt and direct) criticisim of your ideas, EVE Oline's General Discussion forum simply isn't the place for you. If you can't stand to lose ships (or don't want to understand why people would shoot you in NULL or LOW sec), you shold not play EVE online at all.

And when LEGIONS (not just Jenn aSide) of your fellow players explain to you (in blunt, direct, adult fashion) the mutiple errors of your ways, well, hell, it's just the forum is full of bad people. THAT's the conculsion you come to. And all the while you lie and proclaim "I don't care" when it's more than obvious that you do, because if you didn't care you wouldn't post, nor would you have called attention to your loses in the 1st place..

And you end by slow clapping and saying i'm a psycho and that I "win".

Well, I did do win. Not in this video game, but in LIFE, compared to you. Why? because I can play a video game, lose, and not only not get butthurt about it, but also not post about it on a publicly accessible internet forum.

Perhaps one day you'll realize that while I was laughing at the utter cluelessness of your postings (I was by the way), i was also tryign to help you. Learning to take responsibility for one's own actions (posting crazy things on the internet then getting butthurt when it doesn't go you way are examples of your actions) isn't something you do for other,s its something you do for YOU in order to improve and prevent future ridicule. Hoepfully one day you'll grow up and understand what i just told you.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#225 - 2013-05-12 16:29:25 UTC
You're an ********

This is why.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#226 - 2013-05-13 03:06:06 UTC
Still not locked? Crickey, it just keeps going, and going, and going....

Come on, everybody: Fifteen Twenty pages, you know you want to!

But more realistically:

In before lock, and almost-certainly impending OP ban.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2013-05-13 05:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Interestingly enough, the old tales spreaded among random people (not involved into the game, those who were just taking notes from news) were driving the idea that nothing in EVE is without a reason, there's always something bigger to it etc. Well, that turned out to be a part of viral marketing or could be called that way. Very few people here actually bother with shady deals and political causes, there are much more people who view this game as a pvp "arena" (for the purpose of reasons, not ToE ofc) with obligatory farm inbetween.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#228 - 2013-05-13 12:38:14 UTC
Asmodai Xodai
Amarr Empire

Sooo, finally kicked out of GENTS I see. Still want to tell us how you "won" by making a forum post that got you kicked out of your corp and and how you"didn't want to be in GENTS anyway"?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#229 - 2013-05-13 13:18:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Asmodai Xodai
Amarr Empire

Sooo, finally kicked out of GENTS I see. Still want to tell us how you "won" by making a forum post that got you kicked out of your corp and and how you"didn't want to be in GENTS anyway"?

Does that make GENTS look any better? Or was it a desperate last chance grab to maintain their sanity?
#230 - 2013-05-13 13:41:44 UTC
A noob ship in low sec equals one of 3 things.

A scout

A noob who is about to learn about low sec.

Someone moving high value items thinking they are being smart.

When a predator sees easy prey they don't go "Ahh ill pass it up for something harder"

Its just how EVE is.
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#231 - 2013-05-13 15:59:13 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Obligatory disclaimers to address the ever-present trolls:

1) Yes, you can find a recent kill on the killboards of a noobship impairor, which happened in a 0.4 sec system.

2) No, that incident isn't what "caused" this post. This kind of thing has been going on ever since I first started the game over a month ago. It is just the latest thing to make me chuckle, shake my head, and question exactly what is going on.

3) No, I have half a billion in funds right at the moment, so I could care less about the loss of the free noobship, nor the loss of the half-a-mil venture I lost right before it, nor the loss of another venture before that one, nor... (blah blah).

4) No, these aren't "carebear tears" or "noobtears" or blah blah, but if you like to "feast" on such things, and you want to imagine that they are, knock yourself out, and more power to you.

5) No, I don't want anything changed about the game.

6) No, I don't want this, or other practices banned.

7) Yes, I understand that PvP can occur anytime in this game, and that you are never "truly safe," least of all in low-sec or null sec or whatever.

So, is there some relevant point I'm missing to what I will call "seemingly mindless PvP?" I'm asking because I truly don't know the answer (in other words, maybe there is a relevant point and I just don't know what it is).

Definition of terms:

RELEVANT POINT - Something that serves a strategic, tactical, or economic gaming purpose (procurement of resources; acquiring a strategic, tactical, or economic advantage; denial of such things to a rival; etc). Examples: 1) Piracy where you actually take somebody's stuff. 2) Killing mining (or other) ships in a system claimed by a corporation you work for (i.e. defending assets). 3) Hell, even honing your skills by taking on a ship that might offer some sort of challenge to you.

SEEMINGLY MINDLESS PVP - PvP which seems to have no relevant point (see above). Examples: 1) Attacking and blowing up noobships with ships that are ridiculously overpowered compared to noobships when there is absolutely nothing to gain economically, militarily, strategically, tactically, or otherwise.

Anyway, as far as I know, you don't earn "experience points" in this game by killing stuff, do you? And in the examples I am referring to, there is no piracy happening (stuff isn't taken from the victim - in fact there isn't any stuff to take). There are no assets being defended by the perpetrator because the perpetrator is never in a corp which owns the system in question (in fact, as far as I know 0.4 sec can't be owned by player corps), and the perpetrator seems to be operating as a "lone wolf."

At any rate, anytime - I repeat anytime - I venture into a system with less than 0.5 security, I get killed by what I have termed "seemingly mindless PvP," meaning I can see no relevant point to being aggressed. It always occurs in the exact same fashion, with the exact same hallmarks:

1) Perpetrator's ship is hilariously overpowered compared to mine - Drakes, Tengus, etc. vs. noobships.

2) Perpetrator's ship is always cloaked.

3) Perpetrator always uses some kind of hilariously overpowered missle or torpedo or bomb which essentially one-shots my noobship.

4) Perpetrator always takes huge delight in "winning" this engagement, and really seems to "get off" on it. Perpetrator seems to believe he's made some sort of huge accomplishment.

Usually I'm messaged by the perpetrator. The conversation always goes the same. This was the conversation from a recent engagement:

EDIT: Chat logs may not be posted except in certain forums. General discussion is not one of them. Therefore the chat has been deleted - ISD Tyrozan

Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. However, midway through the process I had to stop playing the game to address a real life concern.

I used to go into these lower-sec systems simply to explore my way around the game (I'm merely talking 0.4 systems, not 0 secs or negative secs). After all, all I ever read on the forums is put-downs of so-called "carebears," high-sec'ers, people who live in high-sec or don't venture into low sec, etc. But nowadays, I simply venture to these places once in a while to count down how long it takes to be killed in the exact same fashion as mentioned above (usually less than 2 minutes).

Oh, these events happen in different systems, not the same system. And the perpetrators are different, not the same.

To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).

Tl:dr...whine, more whine with a rage topping.

Noobships are a threat in lowsec/null...they carry cynos everywhere they go.

If you want risk free gaming go to (insert name of other mainstream MMO here).

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