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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Author
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2013-05-11 18:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

Just an observation here. But throughout this thread you don't seem to have taken on board the many reasons people have given to you for your ships being killed. You seem to be focused upon picking out a small sub section with psychological problems and have tarred the whole of the eve player base with this label.


Not true. The reason I have dismissed many (albeit well-intentioned) reasons people have given is that they don't fit the situation I already described. Basically, people aren't reading my post carefully. For instance, I continue to hear explanations involving 'gate camps,' but I have already said that these aren't gate camps I am encountering. I continue to hear explanations involving loot that could be dropped, but (I think) I already said that they don't even sift through the loot - I know this because I come right back again after being killed only to find my cargo that was dropped unopened.

I also said that these folks don't seem to be defending corporate owned space, because these 0.4 systems I visit aren't corporate owned. Basically, I put a lot of thought into my original post which pre ruled-out a lot of reasons people would give, because I didn't want to waste time and text space.

Now, I didn't initially focus on the psycho or sociopath element. In fact I was initially wondering whether "experience points" were awarded for this kind of thing. It was others who said they loved to feast on tears or whatever, and others pointed out that lots of these kind of people exist. Basically, it has been pointed out that a group of people enjoy being assholes just to imagine the look on the 'victim's' face. So far, this explanation is the only one that seems to fit with the data I have given so far. It is what it is.

Quote:
Calling every player who enjoys hunting and blowing up other ships a sociopath is a foolish generalisation at best.




I'd love to see you quote me where I said this.


Doesn't have to be corporate owned to be corporate ran.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#202 - 2013-05-11 19:47:38 UTC
Low sec isn't about your ship, they are tanking gates.
Chances are they are hiding something. It might be a reactions POS, it might be Capital production but they have something in that system or systems that sanction the paranoia of meta game counter strategy.

What New people need to appreciate is, there is no more ISK in lows sec than there is in high sec. Not in mining, not in ratting, not really in looting. Don't waste your time going there. It is something most new players need to learn for themselves though. As you said, it didn't cost you much. You did it right. Just suffice it to say, there is a reason, you just don't know it.

tldr: It isn't you, it's the guy pretending to be you but really out to wreck other peoples years of work. Welcome to the biggest meta scam in the MMO Genre, EVE Online.
Maruan Ibnis
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-05-11 19:54:15 UTC
Cyno alts.

Cyno alts everywhere.
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-05-11 19:57:18 UTC
oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying?

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#205 - 2013-05-11 20:25:59 UTC
Shao Huang wrote:
I confess I am fascinated with EVE. I still don't know if I actually like the game of the game yet. Still in my noobosity looking for it, but really like the EVErse.

That what is represented in this thread seems to happen again and again is fascinating to me and very distinctive about the game. People enter the game. The game has a lot of deterministic structure, but compared to other games a very limited rule set. People often confuse rules and structure.

I have spent a great deal of time over many years creating RW environments with deep structure and very flexible, or even non-existent rule sets in a wide variety of settings, for a wide variety of purposes. I am a type of designer. Some consistent things happen.

When successful in creating such an environment participants often very rapidly come into contact with a rule system and expectations they are carrying around in their own heads, but usually assume exist outside of themselves. EVE is an amazing environment for this. Responses to this moment vary greatly, but the moment is very consistent and recognizable. EVE tears is one kind of response.

The response in which people cannot come to terms with the self generated nature of their own system of rules, generalized expectations, etc. is usually understood in the context of EVE as 'tears'. Something has occurred which does not fit their model of the world, which they take to exist independently from themselves, but paradoxically is also the basis for their functional identity. It is often the case that people in this moment will insist on some wrongness in the world or others, rather than considering whether or not their model is structurally appropriate to what is occurring. More tears.

Often, as in the case of the OP, this seems to involve some fixed, 'authorized' assertion of meaning. Arguments that are proximal to their prefigured model and meaning making are at least considered. Arguments and data that offer meaning outside of their model are dismissed, if they are perceived at all. Sometimes they will complexify their model. Motives are attributed according their own model. There is a consistent investment in 'other' and 'negation' as a way of reinforcing their now 'threatened' identity and world view. Typically the chance that there may be no meaning involved is viewed as completely impossible. More tears.

This moment involves the possibility of a kind of existential crisis. That journey is really quite something. It is also one of the few moments in which liberation and learning are most profoundly available. Creating access to such moments in a safe environment can be considered a compassionate act, as opposed to say encountering them in a situation where the learning curve is so steep that actually dying individually or in great numbers is the consequence of getting it wrong.

In saying this, I am by no means suggesting that everyone or even anyone is consciously seeking to stimulate or particiapte in such existential crisis, emancipatory process or learning. That is the genius of the the thing. Just playing the game seems to result in this again and again. Whether people navigate it 'successfully' or not is another matter altogether.

It is a relatively open environment where you encounter many people of relative diversity. Because of the nature of the environment what you first encounter, however, is yourself. A journey and narrative become available and can be engaged or actively ignored.


This is an academic paper level post, and very well said.

I can't say it enough, you just described EVERY.SINGLE.PLAYER who losst a ship under totally legitimate (ie EULA legal) situation and posted about on this forum. I mean, they are actuially SURPRISED that somone would shoot them in a game where the vast majority of ships desings are combat ships and were msot ships actually flown have guns on them..

Some people seek comfort in "their own little world/bubble" and if you violate that, they get kind of crazy. Yet they chose to play a game that is ABOUT bursting other people's bubbles (and I say EVE is "about" that because, again, look who made the game, look at the core structure and ruleset of the game and look at all the ships with guns).

Again, well reasoned post, good job.
Drunken Bum
#206 - 2013-05-11 20:36:29 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying?

That last thread was pure gold. This one, eh, he could do better.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie

Fragwit
Tellurian Works
United Federation of Conifers
#207 - 2013-05-11 21:29:46 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying?


It would appear he is.
I met him in null he didn't seem happy then.
He mailed me and promised me he would be bringing a 100 sigils for me to shoot. I haven't seen him yet and I stocked up on ammo, I feel cheated.
Asmodai, as one of the troubled few who take great delight in disturbing your game play, you want my reason for shooting noob ships.
Sometimes they have loot (yes i do check), sometimes they are scouts, I collect corpses (I have yours) and ultimately because I can.
Jarod Garamonde
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-05-11 21:35:18 UTC
Fragwit wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying?


It would appear he is.
I met him in null he didn't seem happy then.
He mailed me and promised me he would be bringing a 100 sigils for me to shoot. I haven't seen him yet and I stocked up on ammo, I feel cheated.
Asmodai, as one of the troubled few who take great delight in disturbing your game play, you want my reason for shooting noob ships.
Sometimes they have loot (yes i do check), sometimes they are scouts, I collect corpses (I have yours) and ultimately because I can.



NBSI... nooblets should avoid areas where that law is in place.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Arduemont
The State of War.
#209 - 2013-05-11 21:41:50 UTC
There is no point in PvPing. There is no point in mining. There is no point in running missions. There is no point in building ships. There is no point in running corporations, or creating empires, or helping other players.

Eve is a game. We do these things because we enjoy them.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Asmodai Xodai
#210 - 2013-05-11 21:45:30 UTC
Do you realize you guys are writing in a three month old thread? I guess there aren't rules about that around here?

At any rate, the topic remains quite relevant. But what I've realized is, most any topic with any 'highbrow' component at all (like, anything beyond 3rd grade reading comprehension level) is way too sophisticated for these forums. At least 80% of all posters on these forums are trolls (and not even particularly good or clever ones). The remaining 20% have serious reading comprehension issues, and can't read, understand, and respond to what is written (they think you wrote something you didn't write, and respond to that instead).

I like to discuss strategy, game theory, things like that (what this thread is essentially about, and others). What I've learned is, it's impossible to do that here. The mindless trolls just attack and troll. The reading-comprehension challenged misunderstand you.

I actually don't blame the mindless trolls so much. That's like blaming a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake. I blame CCP for allowing this toilet of a forum to exist in the state that it does.
Asmodai Xodai
#211 - 2013-05-11 22:20:12 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
Late to another gem of a Gents thread.

Damn


I'm pretty much immune to the actions and words of forum idiots. I normally just don't care. However, congratulations to you, and my hat's off to you. You, quite accidentally, hit me in the soft spot. You win.

Trash my name all you want (and you will!). But I won't have Gents, or my corp., trashed because of me. They are the coolest bunch of guys I've ever met. Extremely professional, smart, very skilled pilots, willing to share knowledge and help out friends, etc.

They had nothing to do with this thread. This thread was created by me before I ever joined them. So, after posting this I will willingly resign from the corp. If you want to trash someone, trash me. If you want to troll someone, troll me. But don't tarnish their good reputation - they are a great bunch of guys who just made the mistake of helping out someone who inadvertently made himself the target of the forum trolls. And that was entirely my fault, not theirs.

And with that being said, I will make a 1 mil ISK donation to you, good sir. I know it isn't much, but I just spent half a billion or thereabouts and have nothing else to spare.

Well played, sir. Well played.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#212 - 2013-05-11 22:23:35 UTC
If you hate the forums so much, why are you here? That's not a troll by the way, that's a legitimate question.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#213 - 2013-05-11 22:34:30 UTC
You said you started the game "over a month ago", have acquired an amount usually not available to people barely a month old without selling a plex, and you want to know if there is any relevant point that you're missing?

Yes, you are. It's called perspective. You can't possible profess to know all you claim to with barely a month's experience.

Oh, yeah, the other one is 'adapt'. That's what we all do with every changing situation or patch...we adapt.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#214 - 2013-05-11 22:48:50 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Do you realize you guys are writing in a three month old thread? I guess there aren't rules about that around here?

At any rate, the topic remains quite relevant. But what I've realized is, most any topic with any 'highbrow' component at all (like, anything beyond 3rd grade reading comprehension level) is way too sophisticated for these forums. At least 80% of all posters on these forums are trolls (and not even particularly good or clever ones). The remaining 20% have serious reading comprehension issues, and can't read, understand, and respond to what is written (they think you wrote something you didn't write, and respond to that instead).

I like to discuss strategy, game theory, things like that (what this thread is essentially about, and others). What I've learned is, it's impossible to do that here. The mindless trolls just attack and troll. The reading-comprehension challenged misunderstand you.

I actually don't blame the mindless trolls so much. That's like blaming a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake. I blame CCP for allowing this toilet of a forum to exist in the state that it does.


Translation: "I'm a badplayer, i want to know why everyone is so mean to me when I fly around in a game with space ships and guns and wonder why i got shot, and everyone must adhere to my value system or they are doing it wrong".

You hide behind troling and insult, but the real truth is plain for everyone (but you) to see: You're about 100 iq points less smart than you think you are.

If an entire FORUM of adult game players comes to the same conclusion, what does that mean, Admodai, Xodai? it either means 100% of us are stupid, or you are exccedingly bad at communicating. At every single turn you've proven to not have a real good grasp of reality or any skill at communicating. And everytime someone demonstrates to you your flaws, you try to turn it around, as if theres something wrong with everyone else.

Can you not see your problems. Do you not have ANY moral courage , even that tiny bit that would allow you to look in a mirrior and see why everyone you come across (and I'll bet you cash money in U.S.currency that this happens to you IRL too) dislikes you? Do you think you are some kind of mental genius that NO ONE is smart enough to get what you are saying?

I said in the other thread you are deserving of the ridicule you get, but you also deserve a great deal of pity too, because it seems your problems go way deeper than losing Drakes and noobships in a video game.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#215 - 2013-05-11 23:03:43 UTC
I've never seen a thread complaining about the "mindless" violence in call of duty multiplayer.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#216 - 2013-05-11 23:05:00 UTC
Holy ****, still not locked?

But then the whinging bad's other thread went twelve pages if memory serves, so I'm just going to call it now:

Ha-ha: IN!!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Dub Step
Death To Everyone But Us
#217 - 2013-05-11 23:09:30 UTC
Props to the OP. Most clueless peoples threads don't last this long.

Effective troll 10/10.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#218 - 2013-05-11 23:12:06 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Do you realize you guys are writing in a three month old thread? I guess there aren't rules about that around here?

At any rate, the topic remains quite relevant. But what I've realized is, most any topic with any 'highbrow' component at all (like, anything beyond 3rd grade reading comprehension level) is way too sophisticated for these forums. At least 80% of all posters on these forums are trolls (and not even particularly good or clever ones). The remaining 20% have serious reading comprehension issues, and can't read, understand, and respond to what is written (they think you wrote something you didn't write, and respond to that instead).

I like to discuss strategy, game theory, things like that (what this thread is essentially about, and others). What I've learned is, it's impossible to do that here. The mindless trolls just attack and troll. The reading-comprehension challenged misunderstand you.

I actually don't blame the mindless trolls so much. That's like blaming a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake. I blame CCP for allowing this toilet of a forum to exist in the state that it does.


You forgot the elitist jackass quota who feel obligated to talk down to everyone.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Asmodai Xodai
#219 - 2013-05-12 00:02:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Translation: "I'm a badplayer, i want to know why everyone is so mean to me when I fly around in a game with space ships and guns and wonder why i got shot, and everyone must adhere to my value system or they are doing it wrong".

You hide behind troling and insult, but the real truth is plain for everyone (but you) to see: You're about 100 iq points less smart than you think you are.

If an entire FORUM of adult game players comes to the same conclusion, what does that mean, Admodai, Xodai? it either means 100% of us are stupid, or you are exccedingly bad at communicating. At every single turn you've proven to not have a real good grasp of reality or any skill at communicating. And everytime someone demonstrates to you your flaws, you try to turn it around, as if theres something wrong with everyone else.

Can you not see your problems. Do you not have ANY moral courage , even that tiny bit that would allow you to look in a mirrior and see why everyone you come across (and I'll bet you cash money in U.S.currency that this happens to you IRL too) dislikes you? Do you think you are some kind of mental genius that NO ONE is smart enough to get what you are saying?

I said in the other thread you are deserving of the ridicule you get, but you also deserve a great deal of pity too, because it seems your problems go way deeper than losing Drakes and noobships in a video game.


** SLOW CLAP **

You, Sir, Madame, whatever you are... are quite a piece of work. No, really, I mean it. I've never quite seen such a rabid bulldog of a troll before, grabbing a-hold of the trouser leg and shaking like there's no tomorrow. No matter where I go on these forums, no matter what I do, there you are right behind me, feverishly hurling insults, accusations, trollisms, and whatever else. I almost imagine you in a red-faced fury, fingers whacking away on the keyboard like a madman, spittle flying from your lips as you troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.

Endlessly.

You're like a troll version of the terminator. If I may borrow a line from the movie, you absolutely WILL NOT STOP! EVER! IT'S WHAT YOU DO! IT'S ALL YOU DO!

The astute among us will note that I've never once in my life addressed you; rather it was you who first addressed me on these forums. And then kept on addressing me. And addressing me. And addressing me. Oh, I've responded a few times here and there, at about a 1 to 10 ratio (once per your 10 times addressing me). But the truth is, it's all been pretty much you.

At any rate, I give up. You win. No, seriously, I mean it. Even if I wanted to (I don't), there's no way I could ever keep up with such purely psychopathic behavior. I mean, the single-minded dedication, the time, the energy expenditure, the SOUL you pour into your efforts.

The bottom line is, I simply could never CARE enough about some human being on the other side of the internet I don't even know, to hate them that much. But you do. You are a far better man, woman, whatever, than I am. And I sincerely mean that.

Well played Sir, Madame, whatever. Well played.

** SLOW CLAP **
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#220 - 2013-05-12 00:19:45 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Translation: "I'm a badplayer, i want to know why everyone is so mean to me when I fly around in a game with space ships and guns and wonder why i got shot, and everyone must adhere to my value system or they are doing it wrong".

You hide behind troling and insult, but the real truth is plain for everyone (but you) to see: You're about 100 iq points less smart than you think you are.

If an entire FORUM of adult game players comes to the same conclusion, what does that mean, Admodai, Xodai? it either means 100% of us are stupid, or you are exccedingly bad at communicating. At every single turn you've proven to not have a real good grasp of reality or any skill at communicating. And everytime someone demonstrates to you your flaws, you try to turn it around, as if theres something wrong with everyone else.

Can you not see your problems. Do you not have ANY moral courage , even that tiny bit that would allow you to look in a mirrior and see why everyone you come across (and I'll bet you cash money in U.S.currency that this happens to you IRL too) dislikes you? Do you think you are some kind of mental genius that NO ONE is smart enough to get what you are saying?

I said in the other thread you are deserving of the ridicule you get, but you also deserve a great deal of pity too, because it seems your problems go way deeper than losing Drakes and noobships in a video game.


** SLOW CLAP **

You, Sir, Madame, whatever you are... are quite a piece of work. No, really, I mean it. I've never quite seen such a rabid bulldog of a troll before, grabbing a-hold of the trouser leg and shaking like there's no tomorrow. No matter where I go on these forums, no matter what I do, there you are right behind me, feverishly hurling insults, accusations, trollisms, and whatever else. I almost imagine you in a red-faced fury, fingers whacking away on the keyboard like a madman, spittle flying from your lips as you troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.

And troll me.

Endlessly.

You're like a troll version of the terminator. If I may borrow a line from the movie, you absolutely WILL NOT STOP! EVER! IT'S WHAT YOU DO! IT'S ALL YOU DO!

The astute among us will note that I've never once in my life addressed you; rather it was you who first addressed me on these forums. And then kept on addressing me. And addressing me. And addressing me. Oh, I've responded a few times here and there, at about a 1 to 10 ratio (once per your 10 times addressing me). But the truth is, it's all been pretty much you.

At any rate, I give up. You win. No, seriously, I mean it. Even if I wanted to (I don't), there's no way I could ever keep up with such purely psychopathic behavior. I mean, the single-minded dedication, the time, the energy expenditure, the SOUL you pour into your efforts.

The bottom line is, I simply could never CARE enough about some human being on the other side of the internet I don't even know, to hate them that much. But you do. You are a far better man, woman, whatever, than I am. And I sincerely mean that.

Well played Sir, Madame, whatever. Well played.

** SLOW CLAP **


So are you actually going to answer any of the points Jenn raised or is a much wordier 'U TROLLING, LOL!!' the best you can come up with?

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome