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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Dasani Waters
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-05-08 20:08:24 UTC
Is it possible to allow probe launchers to launch an eighth probe? The difference between a seven probe formation and an eight probe formation is only a few percentage points in signal strength, but that usually means the difference between immediately identifying the scan group of your signature or waiting for another scan. Over time, this adds up to a 25-50% increase in scan times for wormhole navigation. Considering that the scanning revamp is supposed to make scanning easier, reducing the total number of probes available amounts to a scanning nerf for wormhole scanners.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#82 - 2013-05-08 20:09:16 UTC
Yeah with the changes, its a good chance things will be even faster without the DSP.

8 probes are still pretty important for combat probing though. I don't understand the 7 probe limit other than as a direct nerf to scanning multiple targets.
CCP Paradox
#83 - 2013-05-08 20:11:18 UTC
Singularity is still being updated, and will be online later today.
I am taking some notes of your questions, so I can present it to the team in condensed form. Nobody is here right now, and tomorrow is a national holiday in Iceland.

On Friday, we should have some answers for most of the questions. For now, please give everything a try on Singularity when it is available. (You can start downloading the client now)

Try what you are expecting, adapt to the system and try using it how you would if it was released as it is. This way we can see your feedback from a better perspective. Speculating on the changes from text form based on how you use the system right now will not carry the same weight as giving feedback after trying out Odyssey.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-05-08 20:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrin Stella Oerndotte
From reading the OP, here are a few suggestions and problems I have:

  1. Being unable to launch less than 7 probes - How about only launching several probes depending if you launch them as a formation? It would be a real pain if you have to self destruct because you for some reason got less than 7 probes but enough to technically scan down the WH. This could also include formations with less than seven probes.
  2. Finding what cloaked ship is being used is going to be harder now, they will only need a few seconds to launch their probes and then cloak up again. However I can see combat probes used somewhat differently in the battlefield now.


Got a few questions but I will wait for SISI to be online first.
Edit: formatted the text a bit.
CCP Paradox
#85 - 2013-05-08 20:15:01 UTC
Dasani Waters wrote:
Considering that the scanning revamp is supposed to make scanning easier, reducing the total number of probes available amounts to a scanning nerf for wormhole scanners.


Not easier, but more accessible. We are not trying to reduce the art of scanning down to a simple click, we are aiming to make scanning more accessible to those who want to use it, but still requires you to master the art.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Niddengolliah
Limit Everyone Nowhere Kingdom
#86 - 2013-05-08 20:15:35 UTC
Just clarifying things:
Will the Sisters DSP be converted into core scanner probe too, or will it become Sisters CSP? I have a fair amount of Sister DSPs and would hate to have them converted into cheap core probes...
blink alt
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-05-08 20:15:59 UTC
CCP Paradox, any ideas on when the new modules will be seeded? It would appear to me those new modules are going to make scanning a lot easier. If that is the case I am not too sure if I mind lossing out on the 8th probe too much.
Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#88 - 2013-05-08 20:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Haseo Antares
Forget the PvE aspect of Deep Scanner Probes. How about using them for scouting? WH dwellers typically use DSPs to check for new ship signatures system wide. D-Scan range should be buffed to 254 AU to compensate for the loss of DSP...assuming D-scan hasn't already been buffed to show ships past 14.35 AU in Oddessy.

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.
mkint
#89 - 2013-05-08 20:22:05 UTC
scanner overlay shows you where the site is (without even having to push a single button) -> put pre-made formations around the site you didn't have to even bother triangulating, push button -> win. so... not 1-button win. 2-button win.

EVE is supposed to be hard. Apparently, it's only supposed to be hard if you aren't site farming in the nullbear blue donut.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#90 - 2013-05-08 20:23:58 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:


Not easier, but more accessible. We are not trying to reduce the art of scanning down to a simple click, we are aiming to make scanning more accessible to those who want to use it, but still requires you to master the art.



Weird, it already had a certain art to master.
Haulie Berry
#91 - 2013-05-08 20:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Amy Garzan wrote:
Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.


Too bad. Skills change without reimbursement all the time.

Quote:
Do not like that you have to launch 7 probes


There might be a valid complaint here, but I'm going to play with it before I get my **** in a twist over it.

Quote:
Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills.


There's no indication that this is the case.

Also, people complaining about virtue being rendered "useless" should think more and post less.
Haulie Berry
#92 - 2013-05-08 20:31:11 UTC
dp
Moth Eisig
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-05-08 20:41:56 UTC
Amy Garzan wrote:
Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.


Bonuses are just moving from the secondary skills to astrometrics. There's no need for reimbursement.

Amy Garzan wrote:
Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills.


That's just . . . wrong.
Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
#94 - 2013-05-08 20:51:30 UTC
So no more cherry-picking of 4/10? If yes, in that case a good change, crossing fingers.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#95 - 2013-05-08 20:54:26 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
You must lauch 7 probes, and have 7 probes in the launch to be able to launch probes. But you can recall select probes if you wish.

Please reconsider this. If for some reason I end up in a WH with fewer than seven probes, but still have enough probes to be able to scan an exit, I should still be able to launch what I have and find my way out instead of being blocked for no apparent reason.

CCP Paradox wrote:
Probes now instantly recall on system jump or station dock

I like this, but could we please also have probes recall when their timer runs out, instead of getting blown up?

Overall looks like interesting changes. I'll have to try them to be sure.
Liltha
Lost My Way Enterprises
#96 - 2013-05-08 21:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Liltha
CCP Paradox wrote:
Honestly guys, I want feedback AFTER you have used the features. Not before!
Singularity will be up shortly.


Here is some feedback that doesn't require testing assuming I have read your post right.

You took away the current use of astrometrics, so to "compensate" you gave it aspects of the other 3 scanning skills. Then realizing that made scanning to easy it would seem you decided to nerf the remaining scanning skills so now I need rank 5 in those skills + rank 5 in astrometrics just to equal the bonus I got before this nerf. This is quite frankly crap, you should consider making the bonus to pinpointing and the like a little higher than half their current values to make the bonus from astrometrics a real bonus instead of a pointless salve.

Another suggestion though it doesn't do a lot for current players is lower the rank of pinpointing and the like so you aren't spending more time post patch to get the same point people were prepatch (assuming you didn't already do that).
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#97 - 2013-05-08 21:05:59 UTC
Oh jeez. The locked-in-formation always-seven-probes thing is obnoxious, plain and simple. Not being able to launch probes at all if you have fewer than seven probes in your launcher is ridiculous. You have probes. You should be able to launch them. Probes shouldn't turn into dead weight if you don't have at least seven of them.
Kai Pirinha
#98 - 2013-05-08 21:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai Pirinha
I'm just testing the new scan system.
On thing that's really bothering me:
I do not seem to move all probes away or closer to the center at once.
The "Pinpoint" (diamond) formation is nice for the default range. But if you change the probe size, then you need to change the relative distance of the probes to each other. With the old system, you could simply do that with one probe and "alt". This is not possible anymore and I have to move each probe seperately: 6 times the work! 6 times the time required!

/never mind, I just found it, you just have to press shift and alt simultaneously -.-'

Also I want to be able to use only one probe so I can quickly identify the wormholes in my system. If I have three wormholes in my system (or more, my record is 7) and I'm just looking for the C4, then I have to probe every wormhole now. With the old system it only took one probe to identify the signatures and see the size.
You might argue: But a C4 is still smaller than a Highsec in a C2. Well yes, but it shows that you don't scan on a daily basis!

If I launch 7 probes and just look for the size, then a signature that is only covered by one instead of 3 or all probes will have a weaker signal strength and I will mistake it with the smaller wormhole signature(s). The "spread" formation doesn't really do it and I don't want to waste time because the probes have to warp 70 AU back and forth so they are not overlapping each other (more time...)

/edit: I'm missing the columns on the system scanner, so I can sort my results by name or type or strength. This is important to me.

Hello World
Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#99 - 2013-05-08 21:40:25 UTC
I'm tempted to say the "new" scanning system is terrible and that you guys should just leave it alone. But I'll just adapt...much less typing that way.

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.
blink alt
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-05-08 21:42:15 UTC
Another thing is that once you scan something down to 100% it doesn't remember it anymore, so once you move onto a different sig you better have bookmarked that first once because now it is back to not having a warpable resolution