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Dev Blog: CSM8 Election Statistics

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Author
Frying Doom
#61 - 2013-05-08 00:12:12 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Very possibly, but it is nice to see as a persons preferred candidate should be in their first place. Unless they were voting like sheep of course.

No, you don't really get it: it's in FPTP that strategic voting is so important, not in STV.

You might want to tell that to the members of TEST Lol

hey they got the candidates they wanted, the candidates just didn't want them lawl

Well it is a very good leason for next year.

Vote who you want elected, not who you are told too.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Powers Sa
#62 - 2013-05-08 00:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
Katrina Bekers wrote:
So our ticket was used to elect two PL guys, in the name of a dissolved coalition - and we voted right before they left. Or they left just after getting our vote - same deal.

And keep a true ~wordsmaster~ like Banlish, with a knowledge rivaling the official wiki AND e-uni wiki, and a dedication to write words second only to Tolkien, out of the tables.

Lorded and screwed over.

Again.

So Montolio originally had banlish as the top vote followed by Sala, then Sort. We made the mistake of negotiating bloc votes with blocs instead of individual alliances. When Montolio stepped down and Sort took over, he fully re-arranged the ballot to put himself, sala, and then banlish on.

The ballot would have been fine if test prioritized itself.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

Frying Doom
#63 - 2013-05-08 00:39:45 UTC
Ok maybe it is because I just woke up but

What the hell does "Finding this number for CSM7 is a little more difficult. 14,813 votes were cast for candidates that did not make the top 14. These are "under-votes" and had no effect on the final council. The more difficult area is determining “over-votes” (votes cast for a victorious candidate that did not affect their standing and could have been used to elect a different candidate). If you consider being in the top 14 to be “unaffected standing” then there were 26,348 over-votes cast in the CSM7 elections. If you feel that being one of the top 7 delegates is "unaffected standing" (as many do) then there were 12,495 votes cast for those in the top 7 that did not affect the election outcome. This means that of the 59,109 ballots cast in the election, 31,801 ballots affected the outcome of the top 7 and 17,948 ballots affected the outcome of the top 14; That comes out to be 53% and 30.3% enfranchised votes respectively."
mean:

For example how does disenfranchised voters compare between the 14 members of CSM7 and the 14 on CSM8?
Not worrying about the CSM 7 top 7 as it is kind of irrelevant, considering 12 of the 14 CSM8 candidates can be considered below the top 7, in comparison.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#64 - 2013-05-08 00:58:19 UTC
Um, I know you have to be all ~Frying Doom~ and all, but do you really not understand that top 7 was important for CSM7?

If you want to just look at getting elected at all, you use the lower number (17,948 or 30.3%).

What they didn't do was look at top 7 for CSM 7 vs voted that mattered for top 2 in CSM 8. Only 25,647 votes mattered for the top 2 for CSM 8, but that is pretty darn close to the 31,801 that mattered for top 7.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2013-05-08 00:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
Frying Doom wrote:
Ok maybe it is because I just woke up but

What the hell does "Finding this number for CSM7 is a little more difficult. 14,813 votes were cast for candidates that did not make the top 14. These are "under-votes" and had no effect on the final council. The more difficult area is determining “over-votes” (votes cast for a victorious candidate that did not affect their standing and could have been used to elect a different candidate). If you consider being in the top 14 to be “unaffected standing” then there were 26,348 over-votes cast in the CSM7 elections. If you feel that being one of the top 7 delegates is "unaffected standing" (as many do) then there were 12,495 votes cast for those in the top 7 that did not affect the election outcome. This means that of the 59,109 ballots cast in the election, 31,801 ballots affected the outcome of the top 7 and 17,948 ballots affected the outcome of the top 14; That comes out to be 53% and 30.3% enfranchised votes respectively."
mean:

For example how does disenfranchised voters compare between the 14 members of CSM7 and the 14 on CSM8?
Not worrying about the CSM 7 top 7 as it is kind of irrelevant, considering 12 of the 14 CSM8 candidates can be considered below the top 7, in comparison.


That's probably the most pessimistic way you could look at who had an enfranchised vote in the CSM7 and CSM8 election, but I will work with it I guess.

So if you want to say that the old Top 7 is equivalent to the new STV-2 vote then let's look at the math. In CSM7 the quota to make it into the top 7 was 2,845 votes for Seleene. That mean that there were 7 * 2845 = 19,915 enfranchised votes split amongst those 7 candidates that were not "over-votes".

Now let's look at the STV-2 election in CSM8. Mynnna was elected with 10,348 enfranchised votes and Ripard Teg was elected with 10,301 enfranchised votes. Together that is 20,649 enfranchised votes to elect the STV-2 winners.

So in conclusion, in the CSM8 elections there were still more enfranchised votes to elect 2 people than would have been required to elect the entire top 7 in CSM8. Additionally, while we are now using an STV system and ballots are far more likely to have any one candidate on them, both of the STV-2 winners names appeared on more ballots than The Mittani did during his victory in CSM7.

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls

Frying Doom
#66 - 2013-05-08 02:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Two step wrote:
Um, I know you have to be all ~Frying Doom~ and all, but do you really not understand that top 7 was important for CSM7?

If you want to just look at getting elected at all, you use the lower number (17,948 or 30.3%).

What they didn't do was look at top 7 for CSM 7 vs voted that mattered for top 2 in CSM 8. Only 25,647 votes mattered for the top 2 for CSM 8, but that is pretty darn close to the 31,801 that mattered for top 7.

Never mind I figured it out.

Wasted votes in CSM 7, 14813 as especially given that the 10,058 votes were specifically there to give a message and as people actually know who they voted for, so over votes are not really wasted in the eyes of the voters.

Wasted votes CSM 8, 7403.

So CSM 7 had 25% wasted votes and CSM8 had 14.9% wasted votes. So to put them on par in numbers if CSM8 had as many people vote as CSM7 then 8807 would have been wasted.

So no bad all in all.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#67 - 2013-05-08 02:37:54 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Frying Doom
#68 - 2013-05-08 02:43:14 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.

He also missed it was bloc candidates not Null blocs, so you might want to add on Wormholes as well. (Who are only 5% of the population of EvE)

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-05-08 03:21:00 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.


Your claims regarding how many players hail from which areas of space is not only wrong (as it is dependent on characters rather than people) but irrelevant, as STV is not intended to represent the population as a whole, but the voting population.

Frying Doom wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.

He also missed it was bloc candidates not Null blocs, so you might want to add on Wormholes as well. (Who are only 5% of the population of EvE)


And as to you, my dear Frying Doom, I very explicitly highlighted the null blocs, not the wormhole bloc. Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Frying Doom
#70 - 2013-05-08 03:33:21 UTC
mynnna wrote:
And as to you, my dear Frying Doom, I very explicitly highlighted the null blocs, not the wormhole bloc. Blink

Maybe it is just one of those days, I just don't remember anyone talking about the STV handing the CSM to Null sec blocs, but blocs. Hell I could be and probably are wrong.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-05-08 03:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Well, there were two from HBC and two from CFC, one from N3 and one from wormholes. Then you've got Trebor, Ripard, Malcanis, Mangala, and Mike from the ECCE, as well as Ali, Korvin and James respectively representing both Provi Bloc/Russians/wormholes and ECCE.


Sacrebleu! You were right all along! STV handed the election to the blocs!


Roll

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#72 - 2013-05-08 04:21:50 UTC
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
Nathan was eliminated last, the WH bloc almost got 3 candidates on 5...


And silly Mittani thought the wormhole vote was inconsequential because we were "divided." Lol

I did very well for a first time running, and I am thankful for all the support I received along the way. I am encouraged, not disheartened, by the results; and I'll see you all again on the campaign trail next year!

Best of luck to James and Chitsa!

http://www.wormholes.info

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2013-05-08 04:23:41 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.

Null players are a majority.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-05-08 04:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Astonishing how close w-space came to electing THREE of their own to the CSM (even if Banlish would have been the next, Nathan would still have been CSM member no. 16).
Frying Doom
#75 - 2013-05-08 04:59:50 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.

Null players are a majority.

Unfortunately the profanity blocker prevents people from saying what you are a majority ofLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-05-08 05:00:41 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Null bloc votes, as identified by Two Step: 9823+10957+5999 = 26799, 53.9% of the votes

Null bloc candidates: Five (Myself, Kesper, Sort, Sala and Progodlegend), which is about 35% of the council. I suppose you could count Malcanis as well, as the HBC ballot was instrumental in electing him and he is technically part of the bloc, but even that's only 42%.

Basically, I'm saying that I think the people who were claiming that STV is all about rigging it for nullsec (ya'll know who you are) can put down their tinfoil hats. If anything we're under represented. Blink


How can you say you are underrepresented when 53% >> 20% of peeps living in NULL ( and not all are in blocs to boot) ? You have over double your populations representation.


My votes were most def. independent candidates (basically the RipardTeg/AliAras/jamesarget/trebor/mike/mangala ballot), but I'll jump in to defend nullsec here...

How does the population LIVING in highsec matter at all? STV is a voting system, it can only represent the voting population of Eve. Nullsec has better turnout. That isn't unfair. All you need to do is turn out the non-nullsec vote, then you'll get a CSM according to who VOTES then. The same happens in any voting system (and has to).
Frying Doom
#77 - 2013-05-08 05:01:53 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Astonishing how close w-space came to electing THREE of their own to the CSM.

Yes but apparently only one of the two WH people elected were part of the bloc Lol

but 3 would have been very nice.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-05-08 05:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Katrina Bekers wrote:
So our ticket was used to elect two PL guys, in the name of a dissolved coalition - and we voted right before they left. Or they left just after getting our vote - same deal.

And keep a true ~wordsmaster~ like Banlish, with a knowledge rivaling the official wiki AND e-uni wiki, and a dedication to write words second only to Tolkien, out of the tables.

Lorded and screwed over.

Again.


Considering the current situation... TEST got screwed, yep.

But not by the voting system - STV worked fine - but by the way YOU agreed to vote for this strangly unbalanced ticket of yours. Just do it properly next year. No.1, (2) on the ballet is a TEST candidate, then agree to put allies on your no. (2), 3, 4 slots, etc.
Have those allies put THEIR members first, then list your guys...

Works out much the same overall, just with more fairness WITHIN a voting bloc.

TLDR: A voting bloc should agree on its candidates - the number depending on their size - but NOT on the order of those, and leave that to its corporations and single members.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-05-08 05:17:44 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Very possibly, but it is nice to see as a persons preferred candidate should be in their first place. Unless they were voting like sheep of course.

No, you don't really get it: it's in FPTP that strategic voting is so important, not in STV.

You might want to tell that to the members of TEST Lol


Well, TEST proved how voting "strategically" can royally screw you over in STV. Just vote in order of your preference, your own first, your allies thereafter... works.
Frying Doom
#80 - 2013-05-08 05:21:22 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Very possibly, but it is nice to see as a persons preferred candidate should be in their first place. Unless they were voting like sheep of course.

No, you don't really get it: it's in FPTP that strategic voting is so important, not in STV.

You might want to tell that to the members of TEST Lol


Well, TEST proved how voting "strategically" can royally screw you over in STV. Just vote in order of your preference, your own first, your allies thereafter... works.

It is nice to see the funnier side. It was almost like they did not know that not putting themselves first would screw them.

Might I suggest for next year CCP bring out a dummies guide for STV, preferably before the electionLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!