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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#801 - 2013-04-23 14:02:10 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.

If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D


What happened to tattoos?


This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do.


So...

- Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned.
- Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned.
- Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013.

It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Roll
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#802 - 2013-04-23 14:18:20 UTC
Nathanien Indoril wrote:
Rammix wrote:
I don't need 2 games. If one of them has huge universe, wars, politics etc and the other has walking in stations and piloting - it's not that cool (that guy did a nasty trick developing the exact things absent in eve). I don't want to jump between 2 similar mmo's, and I definitely will not choose that game instead of EVE.
I need one solid gaming universe that contains all the aspects of space sci-fi, without "shards" or player-made mods/mini-servers. I hope in 2-3 years eve will come much closer to being a complete space sci-fi simulator (face-to-face 'relationships' in stations, piloting, etc etc etc, maybe even landing on planets from orbit in a shuttle of whatever).

p.s. you're a heretic, heretics must be burnt and bad words must be inscribed on their ships' hulls with righteous lasers.


I also want WiS to happen (i'm absolutely pro WiS) AND i want it in EvE and not SC... but... i'm also realistic.
Nearly two years since incarna... and no progress in WiS.
One year after the "we don't have the ressources to do anything WiS related" Post... and yeah... thats it.
During the ATX Zastrow said something like "10 year eve, after everything is fixed - then wis would be cool", and the CCP response on the stream was like "ohm... yeah... look somewhere else, till he goes away or changes topic".

Just posting "We want it" - seems not to be enough, we already have two threadnaughts about this topic.
It seems like WiS is the unwanted child in the eve client... 'cause they treat it that way.

Maybe with finally some competition in this genre... something will change.
Maybe fanfest brings exciting news about WiS (but i doubt it)

So much this. I too want WiS, with one reason few have mentioned: It might get my wife back to playing Eve. I also do not want to maintain two major games. Eve is big, and rewards giving it attention.

My guess is if CCP allocated development effort in proportion to player interest, WiS would get 10% to 20% of the development effort. I still think that would be a good way to do it: Allow each player decide what their subscription helps develop. That way everyone who does not want WiS can be sure none of their money went to it.

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Frozen fanfiction
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#803 - 2013-04-23 14:19:32 UTC
No need for people to spunk themselves.... believe it *WHEN* you see it... *IF* you see it and *IF* some other "issue" doesn't suddenly appear on CCP's to-do list and this stuff gets shitcanned.

And let's hope that any future "wreck diving" sites in the game actually spawn randomly throughout the 23.5 hour day.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#804 - 2013-04-23 14:34:13 UTC
lol better luck next year

grown men playing with dolls roflroflroflrofl

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#805 - 2013-04-23 14:48:28 UTC
Could we have pics? I want pics.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#806 - 2013-04-23 15:08:20 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
lol better luck next year

grown men playing with dolls roflroflroflrofl

... because no other interesting and successful game has engaging Avatar based game play.
... because playing with toy space ships is so much more mature.

If you're going to troll, try to be intelligent about it... or at least original.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#807 - 2013-04-23 15:43:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

So...

- Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned.
- Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned.
- Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013.

It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Roll


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#808 - 2013-04-23 16:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Something just occurred to me:

1) Avatar gameplay is already set to take place on other servers, so that it doesn't slow down the FiS game;

2) World of Darkness has forked CARBON to make it work better for avatar gameplay;

3) DUST is a platform for CCP to polish CREST as a means for two games built on fundamentally different platforms (CARBON and UNREAL), running on different platforms (PC and PS), to talk to each other in real time.

So, once WoD has avatar gameplay all polished up, and the DUST/EVE integration is complete, CCP can create a separate avatar game for EVE using the WoD engine and running on its own farm, that communicates with EVE and DUST in real time using CREST. What we currently know as EVE will continue to run on an architecture optimized for flying in space.

And they can do this for anything. They can use whatever engine they want. They can use whatever platform they want. The potential is huge. And unlike last time, CCP has much better development processes in place, and they don't have to try to get EVE's CARBON to be able to do everything. They can use specialized engines and specialized clients, which is a complete game-changer.

When? Who knows? But once WoD and DUST are ready for prime time, CCP will have more options, and more achievable options, than they've ever had.

EDIT: After talking with a friend: The new single log in they're rolling out? Sure, it makes the web site easier to deal with, but it's also perfect for sharing credentials transparently between games and the web site. I'm just sayin'.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#809 - 2013-04-23 19:30:49 UTC
Yes please CCP. more facets to this sci fi universe for us to interact with!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#810 - 2013-04-23 20:04:10 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

So...

- Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned.
- Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned.
- Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013.

It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Roll


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.


That tech was never entirely for us, it was for WOD. EVE players were simply going to be the beta testers paying for said tech.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2013-04-23 20:42:55 UTC
I always wondered why you didn't change the logic for things like CQ to fit game-lore more.

Example of what I mean. "new use of technologies enable..." - so pod-pilots don't actually leave their pods. What they are is holograms with a force-field type tech enabling them to seem to be out of their pods. So they can walk around and do things but are limited to where they can do this by "emitters" that allow them to seem to walk around.

The above type of approach could be used to justify limits as well as expansion. For outside areas, such emitters could have a remote transmitter unit near by (such as a small electronic probe unit that broadcasts the signal where that small thing can go, it can project the image.) Such projections would be interfaced to the pod pilot, in their pod but it would allow them to do things like dress, move around, interact with things - remotely.

Instead we ended up with pods being optional vs pilots "stuck" in them, etc. The above limits what can be done to a pod pilot (gank a hologram? ...) but with the bulk of things that can be done still possible by the pilots, who remain in their pods.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#812 - 2013-04-23 20:46:19 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

So...

- Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned.
- Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned.
- Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned.
- Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013.

It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Roll


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.


Well, WiS/Incarna is the first featureless feature in the history of EVE, that's some respectable record. And it is unlikely that this changes as CCP keeps lagging behind development needs and sooner than later they'll be struggling to merely save EVE.

Personally, i am looking forward at WoD as much as we can look forward to a project so obscure and so much in the future. Star Citizen, let's face it, won't have avatar gameplay beyond ship boarding (but sure will be a gorgeous game).

So well, what's left for EVE WiSers?

Hint: i started a forum bar rather than wait for CCP to get their sh*t right and deliver anything worth the wait. Bear
Flamespar
WarRavens
#813 - 2013-04-24 01:51:01 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.

If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D


What happened to tattoos?


This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do.


It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#814 - 2013-04-24 06:00:23 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.


CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible.

WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code.

The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
CCP Bayesian
#815 - 2013-04-24 10:58:43 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.


Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#816 - 2013-04-24 12:46:07 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.


Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.


I booked the fanfest times off with the specific intention of coming along to rain a barrage of questions at your guys about why we haven't seen any development time on WiS recently. Unfortunately I am unable to make it. But know in spirit, that I am there, badgering you guys continuously.

Also, I look forward to watching your presentation on the live feed.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#817 - 2013-04-24 13:06:46 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.


CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible.

WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code.

The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON.


Problem with this way of looking at things is that this stuff gets outdated fairly quick. When CCP was still hinting at ambulation, and showing those short videos and whatnot, that stuff was absolutely bleeding cutting edge. Even when they released Inarna it was arguably the best character creator (I say arguably because a lot of games had comparable or better in some areas stuff, like APB). However, bare-bones Incarna came out two years ago. Another two to three years, and that stuff will be obsolete. And when is WoD coming out? My magic 8-ball says "Not anytime soon".

Bottom line, making all that stuff and then not making any reasonable use of it, while the content is getting older and getting closer to being outdated year after year, is not a very smart move.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#818 - 2013-04-24 13:19:52 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.


Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.


Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014.

Also would point that waiting until all FiS is sorted means that there will not be anyone left to worry about WiS. Unlike Faction Warfare, Bounty Hunting, Planetary Interaction and the other underdogs, we don't have a feature to use in its "non-iterated" release form until you "iterate" it.
CCP Bayesian
#819 - 2013-04-24 13:30:11 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014.


Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Also would point that waiting until all FiS is sorted means that there will not be anyone left to worry about WiS. Unlike Faction Warfare, Bounty Hunting, Planetary Interaction and the other underdogs, we don't have a feature to use in its "non-iterated" release form until you "iterate" it.


I don't think anyone has said that we're waiting for all FiS to be sorted. Clearly the evolution of EVE has to continue in the space game as much as it needs to continue broadening out into adding depth to other potential areas of the game universe. With limited resources hard choices need to be made about what is and isn't considered as a priority. Currently the internet spaceship side of EVE has priority as do DUST and WOD. I'd very much like to get the greenlight to add breadth and depth to the EVE universe in other areas like Avatar gameplay but that is a business level decision that our Executive Producer needs to make. Customer "noise" in that regard is important.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#820 - 2013-04-24 13:30:52 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:


Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.


CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible.

WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code.

The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON.


Problem with this way of looking at things is that this stuff gets outdated fairly quick. When CCP was still hinting at ambulation, and showing those short videos and whatnot, that stuff was absolutely bleeding cutting edge. Even when they released Inarna it was arguably the best character creator (I say arguably because a lot of games had comparable or better in some areas stuff, like APB). However, bare-bones Incarna came out two years ago. Another two to three years, and that stuff will be obsolete. And when is WoD coming out? My magic 8-ball says "Not anytime soon".

Bottom line, making all that stuff and then not making any reasonable use of it, while the content is getting older and getting closer to being outdated year after year, is not a very smart move.


Heh. WiS died the day WoD engine was detached from EVE. CCP is gonna be busy with DUST and FiS at least until 2015, and by then everything avatar in EVE will be 5 years old, in case they don't scrap it before in an attack of honesty.