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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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Ziraili Onzo
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers
#141 - 2013-04-09 13:10:23 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
Just an fyi man.

You can't have 9 medslots.

Doesn't work.


Doh, forgot about that. Your right, and changing the entire fitting window etc just for that isnt worth the effort. But its not really about the slotnumbers, its about the idea on how your using the ship.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#142 - 2013-04-09 13:14:17 UTC
Im so TIRED of even looking at the Raven. I like the Scorpion with blaster cannons and alot of tank. I just wish it could do MORE damage. Large missiles are TERRIBUB and Im TIRED of even looking at them much less hearing about them.

Personally. I think large missiles should be abandoned by the Caldari with thier battleship line or there needs to be bonuses specific to brining down explosion vel and rad by the RAVEN. Allowing it to do MASSIVE DAMAGE with SIEGE MISSILES TO CRUISERS.

Otherwise. F*ck IT!


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Dzhiku Aslan
MamenkinbI CbInki
#143 - 2013-04-09 13:15:07 UTC
i love typhoon and geddon changesLol, but rokh and abaddon...CryPlease dont nerf their resists , just change boost bonuses or give another medslot for gyper and mael.Straight(sry for bad english)
Dzhiku Aslan
MamenkinbI CbInki
#144 - 2013-04-09 13:18:33 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Im so TIRED of even looking at the Raven. I like the Scorpion with blaster cannons and alot of tank. I just wish it could do MORE damage. Large missiles are TERRIBUB and Im TIRED of even looking at them much less hearing about them.

Personally. I think large missiles should be abandoned by the Caldari with thier battleship line or there needs to be bonuses specific to brining down explosion vel and rad by the RAVEN. Allowing it to do MASSIVE DAMAGE with SIEGE MISSILES TO CRUISERS.

Otherwise. F*ck IT!


- killz

agreed
Toshaheri Talvinen
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2013-04-09 13:24:27 UTC
So, I've only been playing this game for a little more than a year, and I don't have any PVP experience, but I must say, these changes for Caldari seem like they are getting hit quite hard with the nerf bat.

Rohk:
Never used it, but it seems to me like the only fleet ship that the Caldari have. And it still looks like a viable option in that category.

Raven:
I've PVP'ed and PVE'ed in a Raven before, and I must say, the Raven is even more crap than it will be before the patch. The EHP nerf was certainly not needed, because that will give both PVP'ers and PVE'ers a more difficult time tanking. I've done a fair share of LVL 4 missions, and need less to say, those missions are going to be much harder to do as a new character, and probably pose difficulties to older pilots as well. I agree with the added midslot, something everything a Raven pilot wanted, but the EHP nerf and the less-than-stellar mobility increase will render this hull practically unsuitable for anything.

And no amount of changes (without making them severely overpowered) to torpedoes and cruise missiles will change this.

Scorpion:
I don't see how this ship will be viable in everyday combat unless drastic changes to ECM is made.

- - Tosh
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-04-09 13:26:43 UTC
Ok so everyone here thinks the Raven is now still crap, here is a hint:

N A N O R A V E N

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2013-04-09 13:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Ok so everyone here thinks the Raven is now still crap, here is a hint:

N A N O R A V E N

yep but lets call it T Y P H O O N to differentiate it from the average raven
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2013-04-09 13:46:19 UTC
Raven:

Very sad to see the loss of the second utility high. I find it extremely useful but I may be in the minority in this opinion. I would have prefered losing the 5th low slot for a mid with a CPU/PG boost so that you don't HAVE to fit a fitting mod.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#149 - 2013-04-09 13:48:59 UTC
And where is the solution that the Raven will be viable for pvp?
Main problem is: 20 gun bs shoot at target. Damage imediately.
Raven: Some of the worst scanres you can imagine. Plus damage delay because of using missiles.
So in bigger bs fights with enough alpha a raven pilot will miss the most killmails.
CCP needs to tweak scanres of the cruise missile ships somehow. Even with sth. idiotic like every fitted cruise missile launcher gives a scanres bonus.
THIS Raven will never be a pvp ship actually without further tweaks.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-04-09 14:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
CCP Rise wrote:
Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)


Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!

There is still few few problems with it:
Typhoon has quite a higher DPS, this i fine as the Typhoon is designed to brawl and the raven is a kite, the problem is Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Velocity and Explosion Radius.
Typhoon also can fit more Tank on board compared to the Raven which is fine as i said above one being a brawl and one being a kite.

CCP Rise here is what I believe needs to be done to bring the Raven into a position where the Typhoon isn't the Dominant only.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 7(+1) launchers
Fittings: 12250 PWG(+2250), 820(+120) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 118(+24) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 400(-70)

Those changes i think will do it, let me know what you think.

EDIT: Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity need to be fixed.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#151 - 2013-04-09 14:15:24 UTC
A utility high on raven or any attack battleship doesn't seem particularly useful at their ranges also boost the ravens lock range and i would suggest changing its velocity bonus to an explosion velocity bonus as missiles have ample range already but don't track very well and much like the cerberus who needs missiles to go 200km plus as you can't even lock that far?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Toshaheri Talvinen
Tritanium Industries and Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#152 - 2013-04-09 14:21:29 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)


Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!

There is still few few problems with it:
Typhoon has quite a higher DPS, this i fine as the Typhoon is designed to brawl and the raven is a kite, the problem is Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Velocity and Explosion Radius.
Typhoon also can fit more Tank on board compared to the Raven which is fine as i said above one being a brawl and one being a kite.

CCP Rise here is what I believe needs to be done to bring the Raven into a position where the Typhoon isn't the Dominant only.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 7(+1) launchers
Fittings: 12250 PWG(+2250), 820(+120) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 118(+24) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 400(-70)

Those changes i think will do it, let me know what you think.

EDIT: Torpedo and Cruise Missile Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity need to be fixed.


While I overall disagree with the premise that the Raven needs to lose EHP, it can comfortably fit
[New Raven, Torps PVP]

6x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN Microwarpdrive II
Target Painter II
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Damage Control II
4x Ballistic Control System II

2x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

5x Hammerhead II
Without any powergrid or CPU implants at level 5 skills with the proposed changes, so it really doesn't need more powergrid or CPU. But it's tank is easily matched by that of a Drake. And a battleship, should be able to tank much better than a battlecruiser.

- - Tosh
Bakuhz
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#153 - 2013-04-09 14:21:56 UTC
yey tearz

nothing is wrong with the ship
it just needs a bonus to explosion velocity and its signature

the speed is most welcome on it in the nano fittings

and most of all we dont want to get back in frigate raping raven's shooting you at 250km away

now everyone go back cry for an icecream in the supermarket to mommy
while im thinking about the new armageddon and taking a crap on the crapper

Roll

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-04-09 14:24:00 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
[Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!



Here are the mobility stats next to eachother, but I see something diferent than you in them


Align Time: Typhoon 15.8 > Megathron 15.96 > Apocalypse 16.02 > Hyperion 16.36 > Raven 16.52 > Scorpion 16.66 > Dominix 16.88 > Tempest 17.18 > Armageddon 19.96 > Maelstrom 19.53 > Rokh 19.85 > Abaddon 20.03

Max Velocity: Typhoon 130 > Megathron 122 > Temptest 120 > Hyperion 115 > Apocalypse 113 > Raven 113 > Dominix 109 > Armageddon 100 > Scorpion 94 > Maelstrom 94 > Rokh 89 > Abaddon 89

Agility: Typhoon 0.11 > Scorpion 0.116 > Megathron 0.117 > Hyperion 0.1178 > Apocalypse > 0.119 > Tempest 0.12 > Raven 0.12 > Dominix 0.1254 > Armageddon 0.13 > Maelstrom 0.136 > Rokh 0.136 > Abaddon 0.14

Mass: Apocalypse 97100000 > Magathron 98400000 > Raven 99300000 > Hyperion 100200000 > Dominix 100250000 > Tempest 103300000 > Typhoon 103600000 > Scorpion 103600000 > Maelstrom 103600000 > Armageddon 105200000 > Rokh 105300000 > Abaddon 125000000

In these stats it is the slowest Attack battleship, The clumsiest, and the slowest away from the gate. at some point even the non attack battleships are faster.

aside from pure mass The Typhoon beats it everywhere.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-04-09 14:26:55 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
[Quite substantial changes CCP Rise.

The Raven is now a little bit more nimbler than before, a few people here think it is still a slow boat, but they don't realize its the top 3 lightest battleships which means it accelerates faster and aligns faster. The other 2 lighter battleships are the Armageddon and the Megathron, but that changes once you throw Plates on them, so essentially the Raven is the lightest Battleship, which means fast align, fast acceleration and benefits better from speed boosting modules. So what i gather from this is Nano Raven now!



Here are the mobility stats next to eachother, but I see something diferent than you in them


Align Time: Typhoon 15.8 > Megathron 15.96 > Apocalypse 16.02 > Hyperion 16.36 > Raven 16.52 > Scorpion 16.66 > Dominix 16.88 > Tempest 17.18 > Armageddon 19.96 > Maelstrom 19.53 > Rokh 19.85 > Abaddon 20.03

Max Velocity: Typhoon 130 > Megathron 122 > Temptest 120 > Hyperion 115 > Apocalypse 113 > Raven 113 > Dominix 109 > Armageddon 100 > Scorpion 94 > Maelstrom 94 > Rokh 89 > Abaddon 89

Agility: Typhoon 0.11 > Scorpion 0.116 > Megathron 0.117 > Hyperion 0.1178 > Apocalypse > 0.119 > Tempest 0.12 > Raven 0.12 > Dominix 0.1254 > Armageddon 0.13 > Maelstrom 0.136 > Rokh 0.136 > Abaddon 0.14

Mass: Apocalypse 97100000 > Magathron 98400000 > Raven 99300000 > Hyperion 100200000 > Dominix 100250000 > Tempest 103300000 > Typhoon 103600000 > Scorpion 103600000 > Maelstrom 103600000 > Armageddon 105200000 > Rokh 105300000 > Abaddon 125000000

In these stats it is the slowest Attack battleship, The clumsiest, and the slowest away from the gate. at some point even the non attack battleships are faster.

aside from pure mass The Typhoon beats it everywhere.





Plug the stats in EvEHQ and see that the typhoon is slower by speed and align time because of weight.....

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#156 - 2013-04-09 15:11:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers


This is just a typo, the Rokh will keep its launchers. Sorry about that!


What about the raven? You mention 0 turrets, but it currently has 4, and there is no (-4) notation.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-04-09 15:14:54 UTC
CCP Rise are these align times with 0 skills like the faction navy cruisers?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#158 - 2013-04-09 15:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TheFace Asano
I am going to agree with quite a bit of whats being said about the Raven above. Tank is already on the squishy side, and mobility is not going to change without a decrease in MASS. My proposed changes I will add in bold and { } below.

Increase in dps, shield defense left unchanged from live and a 10 percent mass decrease. Overall hit-points will still be lower without sacrificing its already low hp shield tank. Raw Dps should be higher than the Phoon, while the Phoon has higher damage application.

My thoughts on Torps and Cruise:
Torps: Increase range about 10 percent, at standard BS speeds they should hit for 100 percent damage on BS targets.....
Cruise: Buff Damage by 10-15 percent for each type, and increase speed of cruise to make them the fastest missile available.

Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% {7.5%} bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(-700) {7500} / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 {893000000} / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
EDGE Alliance
#159 - 2013-04-09 15:22:41 UTC
I feel the resist bonus is out of place on the rokh. If you want a sniper go with a naga, if you want a heavier sniper then change the resist bonus to damage to match the naga. Half a brawler, half a sniper doesn't make a viable ship.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#160 - 2013-04-09 15:27:10 UTC
Lina Theist wrote:
I feel the resist bonus is out of place on the rokh. If you want a sniper go with a naga, if you want a heavier sniper then change the resist bonus to damage to match the naga. Half a brawler, half a sniper doesn't make a viable ship.


Range isn't only good for sniping.

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