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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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Author
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-04-08 14:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Welcome to the Tech 1 Battleship rebalance, fasten your seatbelts!

Some of the changes herein are significant, so I'm going to lay out our overall tiericide and balance principles at the top of each race's thread, and also provide ship-by-ship explanation. I encourage you to read both before hitting the caps lock key, you may find answers to some of your questions and concerns.

Tiericide -
Our effort to destroy ship tiers continues. With battleships, the tiers were most evident in HP amounts and price. All variations had an equal allocation of slots already (19), except drone bonused hulls or disruption hulls, which won’t change. As usual, we will be dividing battleships into roles rather than tiers. The distribution will be as follows: One 'Attack' Battleship for each race, and two 'Combat' Battleships for each race (except Caldari, who will retain the only 'Disruption' Battleship for the time being). With these new roles in mind, we will be adjusting hitpoint amounts for all combat battleships near the former tier 3 hitpoint numbers, while the attack hulls will sit closer to the former tier 2s. As with other ship classes, attack battleships will be faster, more agile, and will focus more on damage application and projection than their combat counterparts. Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers.

Exciting roles for every ship and every race -
One of our main goals during this balance pass is to see that each battleship has a lot to offer, and that each race has access to all of Eve's environments. Formerly, the battleship line had strange overlaps and gaps which left certain races excluded from certain styles of play and other races with more than one option for a certain role. This new distribution should hopefully provide new options and excitement for players of all races.

I am breaking the post into four, by race, with the hope of isolating feedback. We look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

Without further ado:

CALDARI

Rokh:

The Rokh, like most of the former tier 3 battleships, is in a very healthy place currently. It hasn't been changed, except for a tweak to the resist bonus. This change is significant, and we are going to dedicate an entire thread to discussing the power of resistance bonuses later in the day. If you want to talk about this bonus here, in relation to the Rokh specifically, feel free. The general idea from our end is that the current bonus to resistance is one of the most powerful ship bonuses in the game. It adds to the power of local tanks (active and passive) as well as remote tanks, which has consistently positioned ships with this bonus at the center of some of the most powerful gameplay available. We feel that the Rokh is a good example of this powerful gameplay, and expect it to thrive despite this change.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to large Hybrid Turret optimal range
+4% Shield resistances per level (-1% per level)

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 15000 PWG, 780 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8500 / 7000 / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 6000 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 89 / .136 / 105300000 / 19.85s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 75 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 500

Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)

Scorpion:

The Scorpion, while being an oddity in the battleship line up, seems fairly happy. We have adjusted its hitpoints slightly, so they would roughly match the attack set, but otherwise there are no changes.

UPDATE: Based on player feedback we are going to let the Scorpion trade one of its high slots for another low slot.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength
25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal and falloff range
25% bonus to ECM Burst range

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 8M, 5L(+1); 4 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 750 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+359) / 5500 / 6500(+1031)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1087s / 5.06
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .116 / 103600000 / 16.66s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 480

@ccp_rise

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#2 - 2013-04-08 14:30:51 UTC
Lol didn't have any idea that raven is THAT slow,i assume amarr tier 3 will get same reduction nothing seems out of place i saw 2nd thread *goes to take a lookse.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#3 - 2013-04-08 14:49:43 UTC
I think the scorp could use a bit of armor instead of hull, that'd make it a better ship in armor fleets. Currently it has quite a low EHP when armor tanked, and it's losing a lot of EHP when shield tanked, due to the ECMs in the mids.
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#4 - 2013-04-08 14:50:02 UTC
How will this affect the Raven State Issue? Bear

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?

Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#5 - 2013-04-08 14:53:47 UTC
Entity wrote:
How will this affect the Raven State Issue? Bear

I think the faction ships are still down the road... *fears for his SNI*
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#6 - 2013-04-08 14:54:12 UTC
ULTRA CONSERVATIVE.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2013-04-08 14:54:26 UTC
Entity wrote:
How will this affect the Raven State Issue? Bear


We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.

@ccp_rise

Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#8 - 2013-04-08 15:00:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Entity wrote:
How will this affect the Raven State Issue? Bear


We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.


You make me feel all special ♥

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?

Xiaodown
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2013-04-08 15:01:43 UTC
I'll quote what I said in the Reddit thread:

Quote:
The scorpion is almost worthless at this point. It used to be literally the most OP ship in the game - twice. But now, with the multiple nerfs to ECM, it's inability to speed, sig, or armor tank, and the latest nerf to ECM in the way of skills that can boost your sensor strength, I just don't see why anyone would ever fly it.
It costs 15x blackbird, and two blackbirds would be better. It costs the same as a falcon and, tbh, has a similar train time, but the falcon is better in every conceivable way. It's the only battleship without a bonus to either damage or tank; it is a strictly PVP ship - it's just a solution for a question that no one asks anymore.


I really wish something would be done about the scorpion. Since 2008 or so, ECM has been nerfed many times (at least 3 that I remember); it is only marginally effective, and even then only when you fill every mid and low slot for jamming, with maybe holding back two slots for tank.

So, basically, it's a ship that's only effective when hero tanked, and yet it's primaried first in almost every fleet I've been in, so what's the point? It's not cost effective, it's not mobile, it's not effective at jamming for more than a couple of cycles before it explodes, it has little to no tank, no PVE role.... Its role needs to be rethought, IMO.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-08 15:04:17 UTC
i think the raven needs more mobility i.e. mainly align time as when you add a mwd on it it takes a long time to turn.
Rokh should have more mobility too for blaster fits...
Oh whats going on with the drones with the raven and scorp?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#11 - 2013-04-08 15:10:15 UTC
As there currently seems to be place to ask this question...

With regards to the reduction of Resist bonuse from 5% to 4% (Both armor and shield), how will this affect other ships in game with these bonuses? Will their resist bonuses be similarily be adjusted by -1%?
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Unforgiven Storm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-04-08 15:12:47 UTC
Raven, unless you make some drastic changes to the torps or cruises this ship continues to be bad

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)

fukier
Brave Collective
#13 - 2013-04-08 15:14:18 UTC
meh... without a boost to cruise and torps the raven is still... meh...

hopefully there will be a thread about large missiles too...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Nolove Trader
Black Hole Cluster
#14 - 2013-04-08 15:15:57 UTC
Why should someone fly a Raven when he could fly a Typhoon? The lower missile range of the Phoon (at least when using torps, but who uses Cruises nowadays?) , we are talking about ~30km vs ~20km with T1-Torps, shouldn't be that much of a problem regarding the still much higher basespeed of the Phoon.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#15 - 2013-04-08 15:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Buhhdust Princess
Rokh - I like, seems fair as you have nerfed the abaddon a little bit.

Raven - Yeaaaaaaaaaa, I love it tbh, although I don't like the removal of 1 heavy neutraliser! But that's just me, coz theyre way OP

Scorpion - Actually disappointed, I wanted to see a bit of a slot change, Preferably 5 High, 8 Mid, 5 Low. Allows for the pilot to choose between Full utility scorpion, with an armour tank/smartbombs etc , or a 4x Torp 1x Neut scorpion, with shield tank, 1 ECM and a decent enough amount of damage to actually warrant it in a solo/dual combo. I think this is a BIG flaw in the Scorp that needs to be addressed.

Scorpion Changed As per this idea I see, Go me! :D
Jureth22
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-04-08 15:52:44 UTC
wouldnt be time to give rokh hybrid damage bonus instead of that optimal one?i mean merlin,moa,ferox got it already.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-04-08 15:54:44 UTC
The rebalanced Raven...I don't have any words for it. I was FORCED to train T2 torp launchers for the Naglfar, but I ain't regretting it when I see this new Raven.

Enough PWG to actually fit torps, more CPU for mission fits, an additional medslot (WOOOOT), more mobility, all that in one package.

The only thing that might be a problem is the mass. I remember the Raven being SUPER-BULKY. Maybe it was just me but if the time needed to accelerate doesn't change, its max speed won't ever be reached and that speed buff won't do much.

SaberSeven
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-08 16:14:31 UTC
Two thoughts:

Please don't kill all resist bonuses...I love my Damnation and Chimera. As for on the Rokh I don't fly one so I couldn't say.

Second more relevant thought: "Plans for large missiles" not to be a debbie downer but missiles of all stripes are awful in every way. This is the case not only in pvp but pve and in general mechanics.
Mechanic gripes"

  • Missiles can't be used in orbital strikes even though in real life we have the technology to do it.
  • Missiles have extreme travel times but even projectiles travel at the speed of light. (Interesting physics you have here)


Just to rehash, because of flight time we can't snipe, because mechanics we can't orbital (more annoying than anything else), and because of just generalized weakness compared to other platforms (no damage bonuses or kinetic only) they are inferior.

Allegedly the Caldari are the most technologically advanced per fluff but ask anyone or check your stats and see how useful most Cal ships are in pvp. I like that the Rokh has a place now but the raven is a joke, no one flies our HACs, and our capitals are consistently ranked the worst.

In sum: fix missiles please. (And the kinetic only bonus is joke, make amarr only have the em part of their lasers bonused and see what happens).
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
#19 - 2013-04-08 16:17:02 UTC
So, as Caldari my only option basically is ranged damage, thus less DPS? Since the Megathron even got faster than it already was, the Rokh is no option anymore for blaster fit.


... Or am I missing something? I'm not a veteran ...
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#20 - 2013-04-08 16:18:12 UTC
Xiaodown wrote:
I'll quote what I said in the Reddit thread:

Quote:
The scorpion is almost worthless at this point. It used to be literally the most OP ship in the game - twice. But now, with the multiple nerfs to ECM, it's inability to speed, sig, or armor tank, and the latest nerf to ECM in the way of skills that can boost your sensor strength, I just don't see why anyone would ever fly it.
It costs 15x blackbird, and two blackbirds would be better. It costs the same as a falcon and, tbh, has a similar train time, but the falcon is better in every conceivable way. It's the only battleship without a bonus to either damage or tank; it is a strictly PVP ship - it's just a solution for a question that no one asks anymore.


I really wish something would be done about the scorpion. Since 2008 or so, ECM has been nerfed many times (at least 3 that I remember); it is only marginally effective, and even then only when you fill every mid and low slot for jamming, with maybe holding back two slots for tank.

So, basically, it's a ship that's only effective when hero tanked, and yet it's primaried first in almost every fleet I've been in, so what's the point? It's not cost effective, it's not mobile, it's not effective at jamming for more than a couple of cycles before it explodes, it has little to no tank, no PVE role.... Its role needs to be rethought, IMO.


I think if additional Disruption Battleships were added it'd give a better perspective of the Scorpion WRT other Battleships. It's definitely a strange beast by itself.

It would be sweet for another Caldari Combat battleship as well to be added alongside the 3 Disruption ones added.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

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