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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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BiggestT
Konvict Cartel
The Serenity Syndicate
#121 - 2013-04-09 09:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: BiggestT
What a joke.

Let's see, you make all the other ex-tier 1 bs's awesome, and finally the scorp has a chance to be fixed and all you do next to nothing. I mean come on, you talk about it being the only 'disruptor' BS, yet the 'geddon is going to be disrupting a hell of a lot more than this piece of junk will.

The Rokh. Oh dear. Were you guys just bored and felt that one ship needed to be shat on so it may aswell be the usual whipping boy?

For ****'s sake, you take this super slow ship, with no damage bonus, and you nerf it?? You ******* nerfed it?! Just... Wow.

The abaddon has got much more going for it than the rokh ever did so you can't even compare them. Change that ****** optimal bonus and give it a damage bonus like you have done with so many other ships lately. Then maybe it would be a fair change.

Also regarding the 4% bonus: Stop blaming RR, it's a pathetic excuse, that's like blaming the bread for being burnt by the toaster.

And the Raven... I can't... I mean... What??!?! You take away HP (ffs why???) and change some slots around, the extra speed and sig do not justify this.

And as if that bullshit excuse about "oh missiles are changing soon so just trust us guys!" can fly, the typhoon will get those same boosts too ya' know so at least have the balls to admit you just don't want the raven to ever be viable.

/rant.

EDIT: Also, CCP Rise lacks a recognition of context in his changes to the rokh. The rokh will be indirectly nerfed when TE's are nerfed soon and the abundance of geddon's after this tiericide will severely hamper the rokh's active tanking applications.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-04-09 09:44:06 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Entity wrote:
How will this affect the Raven State Issue? Bear


We have a special balance pass in mind for you entity.


Entity, You should start crying now, that sounds as if the RSI will get nerved into oblivion.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-04-09 09:50:17 UTC
SaberSeven wrote:

Missiles have extreme travel times but even projectiles travel at the speed of light. (Interesting physics you have here)



Would be fun to see all the cry's of rage and despair when CCP added travel time to projektile weapons. o_O

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#124 - 2013-04-09 10:01:56 UTC
BiggestT wrote:
What a joke.

Let's see, you make all the other ex-tier 1 bs's awesome, and finally the scorp has a chance to be fixed and all you do next to nothing. I mean come on, you talk about it being the only 'disruptor' BS, yet the 'geddon is going to be disrupting a hell of a lot more than this piece of junk will.

The Rokh. Oh dear. Were you guys just bored and felt that one ship needed to be shat on so it may aswell be the usual whipping boy?

For ****'s sake, you take this super slow ship, with no damage bonus, and you nerf it?? You ******* nerfed it?! Just... Wow.

The abaddon has got much more going for it than the rokh ever did so you can't even compare them. Change that ****** optimal bonus and give it a damage bonus like you have done with so many other ships lately. Then maybe it would be a fair change.

Also regarding the 4% bonus: Stop blaming RR, it's a pathetic excuse, that's like blaming the bread for being burnt by the toaster.

And the Raven... I can't... I mean... What??!?! You take away HP (ffs why???) and change some slots around, the extra speed and sig do not justify this.

And as if that bullshit excuse about "oh missiles are changing soon so just trust us guys!" can fly, the typhoon will get those same boosts too ya' know so at least have the balls to admit you just don't want the raven to ever be viable.

/rant.


That is one mad dude over there.

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes. A damage bonus wouldn't hurt, that's for sure. But I like both bonuses. It just happens to be a range bonus. I'm alright with it.

The Raven got the ability to be fit as it's supposed to be (ie with T2 launchers, a heavy neut, a propmod and a proper shield tank) with the extra goodness of +1 medslot. While I still doubt the usability of the Raven in both fleets and small gangs because of the torps themselves, I think that it became better overall. 7 Medslots means you can fit a MWD, 2 LSE, Invul, Invul, Scrambler, Targetpainter. That kind of tank isn't stellar, sure. But at least it can apply more damage that you ever could while still keeping some EHP.

The main problem remains the weapon system. And the issue is pretty simple to understand. Torps don't have anywhere near enough range, and it's quite hard to apply full damage, even with multiple painters. If that is fixed, the Raven is mostly fixed.

The second most important problem the Raven encounters is its capacitor. It's bad beyond measure. Can't move around with the MWD without emptying it in seconds.

The Scorpion could have gotten +1 lowslot -1 highslot, that would have gave him either more jamming power or more armor tank. Considering the ECM nerfs, I think it would have been a good change.
BiggestT
Konvict Cartel
The Serenity Syndicate
#125 - 2013-04-09 10:25:21 UTC
SMT008 wrote:

That is one mad dude over there.

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes. A damage bonus wouldn't hurt, that's for sure. But I like both bonuses. It just happens to be a range bonus. I'm alright with it.

The Raven got the ability to be fit as it's supposed to be (ie with T2 launchers, a heavy neut, a propmod and a proper shield tank) with the extra goodness of +1 medslot. While I still doubt the usability of the Raven in both fleets and small gangs because of the torps themselves, I think that it became better overall. 7 Medslots means you can fit a MWD, 2 LSE, Invul, Invul, Scrambler, Targetpainter. That kind of tank isn't stellar, sure. But at least it can apply more damage that you ever could while still keeping some EHP.

The main problem remains the weapon system. And the issue is pretty simple to understand. Torps don't have anywhere near enough range, and it's quite hard to apply full damage, even with multiple painters. If that is fixed, the Raven is mostly fixed.

The second most important problem the Raven encounters is its capacitor. It's bad beyond measure. Can't move around with the MWD without emptying it in seconds.

The Scorpion could have gotten +1 lowslot -1 highslot, that would have gave him either more jamming power or more armor tank. Considering the ECM nerfs, I think it would have been a good change.


The nerf isn't the issues, it's the fact that they think it needed one at all. It just did not need a nerf.
Do they really think that if they hadn't taken that 1% that people would be buying rokh's in droves and it would become Rokh's online?

Yet they're quite happy to make changes to the 'geddon and typhoon that will make these BS's the most popular thing since condom machines made it to Pakistan. It's just doesn't make sense.

And the raven changes might be a net gain, but they will still be obselete next to that damn typhoon, regardless of any changes because they share the same weapon system (unless they tried to make the typhoon a torp only boat, then I'd be okay with it).

This was a great oppertunity to make the scorpion shine for the first time in years, and they blew it. The changes are just so meagre compared to the other tier 1 BS's.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-04-09 10:35:20 UTC
Not much to say to these changes really as they're not as radical as the other races.

You're reducing the base shield of the Raven? I don't think that's a good idea even with no tackle it's shield ehp fit isn't great. I think you should leave it's shield as is. The raven is also still incredibly slow. One of the reasons no one PvPs solo in a Raven - and I've tried. You have to not only give up 3 mids for mwd disruptor and web which is half of your mid slots, even when you tackle anything they're still way faster than you and you can't keep them tackled. Keep the Rokh and Scorp slow but make the Raven a bit faster, it's still pretty fat.

As far as Scorp it could use the base EHP. I think you could consider dropping a mid for a 5th low though.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-04-09 10:40:10 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Steve Spooner wrote:
What about the CNR?

Indeed the Raven has absolutely no place in PVP because it's slower than a snorlax rolling uphills, the damage application is ass and in the face of the Typhoon it's bleh. So it's basically a purely dedicated PVE ship, which I'm fine with because carebears.


If Raven is a crap for PvP it doesn't mean it will rock in PvE.
I'm an old carebear and I have NO idea how this ship fits PvE.
Those bonuses are just a crap for any situation.

Gief me Shield Boost bonus instead of range one or make that range bonus useful while using Torps.


AFAIK, the typical PVE raven sits outside of NPC range and just kills everythng before it can get in range. Pocket aggro doesn't matter. I used that tactic for round about a year before I started to use the Golem.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#128 - 2013-04-09 10:43:38 UTC
Does that mean that the build cost of the Scorpion will remain the same, considering that you are basically not changing the ship ? Or should we expect the usual ~+60% price hike the "tier 1" hulls have encountered at smaller hull sizes.

I'm a bit worried that you might push that basically suicide ship hull cost to the levels where it might no longer make sense to fly a Scorpion over, say, falcon, for example.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-04-09 10:45:21 UTC
I wrote a post in the ABC thread, that I could not judge those change without seeing the BS change.

Since I mostle fly Caldari ships I chose this threat to answer.

But could anyone tell me when you actualy choose a Attack BS over a ABC?

What are you going to do with these?

Why has an Mega a turret hard point less than the Talos and the Naga?

Not realy a topic I like to resurect, but why is a attack bs with missiles going to work when a ABC with missiles is not going to work?

From these 4 attack Battleships, I think only the Typhoon has a change of succeeding because it's damage projection is unique for large missiles.

the others will be to slow, with to few hitpoints, that do less damage than their ABC counterparts.

I think you only made them less usuable in large fleet fights, where speed hardly matters.

I'll gladly change my opinion, if some one can show me where these ships become more usefull.

P.S. I'm fully aware of the promissed look at the large missiles, but the other attack battleships don't look very promissing either.



Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-04-09 10:52:05 UTC
CCP Rise have you considered reducing the Rokh's optimal range bonus to say 7.5% or 5% in exchange for more speed and reduced mass or even a combo of damage and range?

rails at battleship level don't need a range bonus to be useful but it could use more damage and a blaster version could use more mobility and damage to be worthwhile instead of using a shield mega?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-04-09 11:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
CCP Rise some thoughts about the scorp...

-remove the range bonus entirely replace with a 5% missile damage bonus
-reduce drone bandwidth to 50 like raven
- buff its speed

This way it reduces its ecm range in exchange for some worthwhile dps afterall a battleship is meant to be tanky and do lots of damage this way its at least of compromise of both ecm shouldn't be long range e-war i thought that was the point of the ecm nerf and damp range buff is it not?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#132 - 2013-04-09 11:23:20 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
CCP Rise have you considered reducing the Rokh's optimal range bonus to say 7.5% or 5% in exchange for more speed and reduced mass or even a combo of damage and range?

Some thoughts about the scorp...

-remove the range bonus entirely replace with a 5% missile damage bonus
-reduce drone bandwidth to 50 like raven
- buff its speed


These ideas are terrible. Straight

The Rokh is very healthy as a fleet BS because of its tank and damage projection. It needs these abilities more than it needs minor mobility increases, and it certainly doesn't need to tread on the toes of what the Gallente fleet BS should look like - a railboat with less tank but considerably greater tracking and gank at close ranges, which is what your idea of a damage bonus and reduced range bonus would do.

Stop trying to neuter the Scorpion while keeping it an ECM boat. If you don't like it as an ECM boat, then change it entirely, don't do this half-arsed single missile bonus. As a fleet ewar BS it again needs force projection and it doesn't need mobility as nearly as much as the Raven anyway, whose unimpressive mobility you appear quite happy with! The only real change I'd make to the Scorp is to move a highslot to a lowslot so it can fit a better armour tank.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#133 - 2013-04-09 11:53:43 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
But could anyone tell me when you actualy choose a Attack BS over a ABC?


Theoretically, for the fleets. ABCs are very squishy ehp-wise, so in theory, an attack battleship would have more standing power. Problem is, most attack battleships have worse damage application than ABCs, their tanks aren't all that great, while ABCs also provide massively superior mobility (and in turn, speed tank).

Anyway, first let me say that seeing Battleships up as well makes my heart sing - Odyssey is fast becoming the most massive tiericide expansion to date - keep it up at this pace and you'll be done for christmas ;)

On to the changes:

Overall

I'm a bit disappointed that the ehp remains the same, as this means the battleships will likely still be sparsely used in small gang / solo adventures, save for missions. I had really hoped for the "lineholder" platforms and watering down of the alpha strike fleets. Oh well, can't have it all, I guess.

Raven:

- I approve of the ship becoming an attack BS, though this means we now have two attack missile ships and no combat missile ship.
- Overall, I disagree with the tank nerf, it was nothing awesome to beging with. The speed increase was needed, though I'm not sure it'll be enough, given that the Typhoon is still considerably faster, has better cap recharge, smaller sig, larger drone bay and gains a better damage application. How you're going to fix that through weapon changes is beyond me, but if I ever buy a T1 missile ship again, I'll almost certainly opt for the Typhoon over the Raven.

Verdict: disappointing

Rokh:

No biggy, the Space Train remains awesome as the brick counterpart to the Megathron and the shield counterpart to the Abaddon.

Verdict: average

Scorpion:

Still as squishy as before. Either give it the ability to field a decent shield tank or give it an extra low or two and make it a proper armor tank. Extra dps isn't necessary, that isnt its role. As it stands, I don't see a reason to fly it over a Falcon.

Verdict: disappointing
Tilo Rhywald
Wilde Jagd
#134 - 2013-04-09 12:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tilo Rhywald
SMT008 wrote:

The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes.


I really dislike the idea of ships being limited to a fleet/blob role, not everybody enjoys that kind of game play - I certainly don't. Making ships less viable for small gangs or 1 vs N won't "bring solo back". Besides that "very light EHP reduction" isn't so light when active-tanked. I compared the new stats with the Maelstrom in one of my earlier posts. How can that difference in solo performance be justified?

I really had hoped for a battleship buff in general to make them useful PvP boats in a much broader variety of situations. Whilst an across-the-board-damage-increase might be game-breaking, one easy way to achieve an improvement for this ship class would be to enhance the tanks. Now the sword of Damocles that the exact opposite might happen is dangling above our heads! This is really frustrating.

Tilo R.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2013-04-09 12:48:08 UTC
This whole t1 bs balancing is crap.
Too much generalization, races loosing their style,etc... :(


Raven:
First how can u balance a ship if you dont know what its weapon can do? Do missile balance first.
Typhoon is superior to raven in nearly everything.
advantages T typhoon R raven

T bonuses: The faster missile speed vs explo velocity , i bet explo velocity is way more usefull than the missile speed at least with current large missiles,but even after missile balance I cant see that would change.
Fe torps oh 30km range over 20km, sure... if you attacking a ship between 20-30km that means it is a kiter-> faster and smaller than u, so it takes like minimal dmg from torps anyway.
Cruise missiles : the extra range is nothing , 160km vs 250km nobody fights from that far ,so only advantage is missile speed, but that isnt as great you still have huge missile delay at that range. The explo velocity , is nearly always welcome, as most ships move faster than 104mps (standard cruise m. expl velo).
fittings/defense , well it is balanced out as it seems
R 7/5 mid/low is imho better than 5/7 for attack role, but it can change we will see
T +50m3/25m3 drone control and space, it is huge ,2 more heavies or sentries , who wouldnt want it?
T better cap recharge
TT mobility, the typhoon is faster , aligns faster
T targeting 75km / 85 / 7 vs 65km(+5k) / 115 / 7 , okay this is where it realy gets strange, why the hell the raven(or most other caldari ships) needs to lock much slower than minmatar? typhoon locks 35% fast comeon that is insane
oh and still i dont understand why the hell caldari long range platforms dont get sensor range to support those weapons ,you see by bonuses raven is supposed to be a long range platform ,so why 75km? over typhoon's 65km when it gets +50% for its weapon range? it should be 100km sensor range not 75km , fix this ,and the other long range platforms too
R sensor strength ,well as ecm nerfs come with each expansions ,soon nobody will use ecm, i cant see why this stat is still in the game, and ccp constantly make matar sensors better :)
T signature radius 420(-50) vs 350(+30) , hmm typhoon is not a bc anymore , but still it has superior signature radius ,why? what is the reason for this?

as you can see T dominates R-s , even where we see R-s slot layout and sensor str, is highly debateable if those are realy gives any meaningfull advantages at all or not , raven is a poorer verion of the typhoon gj ccp gj, winmatar online continues




Rokh still bad cap recharge , imho it should get better cap ,same for the amarr/hybrid gall ships
Why change the 5% resist to 4%? if you think this bonus is too good, why not improve the other ones?
Yes i thing the bonuses good too , very good, but these ships have many drawbacks to compensate for it, see abaddon.
It seems you want other ships to be as good as these ones in a role these ships were designed, tanky non mobile platforms with huge logistic supports. Again another generalization victim :(
Atleast this ship is useable not like the other 2



Scorpion is still crap , you want to fit a role as a fleet ecm platform ,but it just cant do that due to paper tank etc.
The problem here is ecm imho. It is strong vs few enemies , it is weak in fleets, you have to devote the whole ship for ecm or it is weak , but then the ship become paper and one sided. Why not remake ecm , so it can be usefull if you dont use all slots for it, so ecm ships can fit shield tank/ some dmg , and make it that it gets weaker in small scale battles?
Atm if you want to use scorp you have to go with most med slots as ecm so you cant shield tank it,and a minimal armor tank in the lows, highs are whatever as missiles are crap, and you get a ship with 6 racial jammers around 8str with 100km optimal and 80k ehp,slow as a hell with frigate dps. Sounds fun and effective isnt it? NO


so all in all 3 shots , 2 complet miss , 1 unneed nerf --->FAIL

XDMR
RED SQUAD
#136 - 2013-04-09 12:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: XDMR
Coming back to this after reading the minmatar BS post...

Why do you nerf the Rokh's Active shieldtank capabilities but do nothing to the already superior Meal tank?
I just dont get it. What is this thought progress?
If you say RR then nerf it to4% but nerf the meal to 5% shieldboost aswell.

Or do you really want me to fly solo Blastermeal this badly?!

Some people say i fly Rokh...

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#137 - 2013-04-09 12:56:52 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
But could anyone tell me when you actualy choose a Attack BS over a ABC?


Theoretically, for the fleets. ABCs are very squishy ehp-wise, so in theory, an attack battleship would have more standing power. Problem is, most attack battleships have worse damage application than ABCs, their tanks aren't all that great, while ABCs also provide massively superior mobility (and in turn, speed tank).



The problem within those fleets you'll use a combat Battleship.

small comparisation:


Drake (Combat Battlecruiser) (Old speed can't find it's new speed but it's slower) 140
Naga (Attack Battlescruiser) new 195

Attack battlescruiser 55m/s faster (even more in the new situation)


Rokh New (combat Battleship) Speed 89
Raven new (attack Battleship) speed 113

Attack battleship 24 m/s faster

Drake (Combat Battlecruiser) Damage < Naga (attack BattleCruiser)

Rokh (Combat Battleship) Damage > Raven (Attack Battleship)


So without going in to specifics, the Combat Battleship maybe slower but it does superior damage and tank. no use for an attack Battleship, as far as I can see.


Then when you need speed, both the attack battle cruiser is faster and does more damage and has double the scan resolution, so while you're still waiting to lock that ABC has alsready started tearing you appart.


So when does it become usefull to be 24 m/s faster with less damage and less tank?



Is the Attack Battleship broke or the Attack Battle Cruiser?


In the whole line of attackships I believe the only the Attack Battle Cruiser does more damage than it's combat version, wich is a disruption in the ballance toward Attack Battleships.

What is going to be the use of attack battleships?



Ziraili Onzo
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers
#138 - 2013-04-09 13:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ziraili Onzo
First off, the only Caldari battleship that have been usefull lately have been the Rokh.

Rokh: "Take a good hard look At the motherfu*#ing Rokh. I'm in a Rokh!" You get it, its a somewhat iconic ship with alot of fans, so please dont make it yet another Caldari BS that gets left in the shadows after the other racial BS's gets pulled out of the mud, ok? I dont mind the changes, resistances are way powerful in the game as it is, and on big hull, i like that your giving it a small but hopefully noticable nerf. But dont just leave it at that, give it some usefull love in other areas just to keep it a open choice for large shield ships, those are already very rare when it comes to the Caldari line as it is. If not for this ship, BS or higher, Caldari blows, end of discussion. They all need some luvin', ok? *cough* Chimera *cough*

Raven: The biggest thing thats gonna effect the Raven, is how you guys decide on changing the large missiles. I'm gonna abstain on commenting, and instead hold my breath until i've read that thread.

Scorpion: Now this is the place you should be thinking outside the box guys. You've already decided to not follow the standards and give the Caldari a unique battleship in this, and i love the fact your doing that, cause it keeps the hope of a meta thats been circling the drain still alive. But instead of going "Yeah, we're keeping it as is", and in most other ships your saying "We're trying to focus on enhancing the ships strong points", but with these changes the Scorpion are still not going to be usefull. As so many already have said, why fly a Scorpion when you could fly a Falcon? So how about this, and hear me out please:

Slot layout: 4H(-2), 8M, 6L(+2); 2 turrets , 2 launchers

Everyone knows the Scorpion isnt there to help doing DPS. You never bring a knife to a gunfight, and thats what this ship is supposed to be, the ultimate swiss armyknife. Its there to stay alive, and to be a great utility ship. 9 Mids give that chance, focusing on its intended purpose and (hopefully) strong points, say with 8 ecm and a prop mod, and then leave those 6 lows for a Caldari Armortank BS. If thats not mixing things up enough already, remove the ECM burst bonus and instead say give it 10% Energy Transfer Amount pr lvl. Why you say? Imagine this: You take out your 50-200man Shield fleet, and as support, you bring along a squad of Scorpions. Right now, mixing up armor tanks and shield tanks in EVE is unheard of, and it pretty much should be, but what if the Scorpions was the support ships that actually took care of themself? 4 highslots, 2 of them used for remote armor repairs, and two for energy transfer. The scorpions make a cap chain like logis does, keeping eachother alive (rest of the shield logis take care of the fleet), and also help supporting the main fleet with ECM, and with the good amount of lowslots, its sporting a tank that actually gives the rest of the Scorpion Squad enough time to atleast try to keep it alive instead of yellowbox=your scrapmetal. However dont make it capstable doing this like other logi, make it only able to hold eachother alive long enough to actually be on the battlefield for a while. Think about it, how much more variety wouldnt something like this bring. Ofc this is just a example, but again the support ships isnt there to do the damage, its there to stay alive and be usefull in other ways for the good of the group. Its of no good if its dead 10 sec after the engagement. Im not saying you should go totaly overboard and make it a "must have" in all types of battleship+ fleets, but again, keep it a option for those that want to mix things up abit instead of it being yet another big caldari ship just collecting dust in hangars. Something like this could even help justify the Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range on the Armageddon, making that a very good counter to this sort of setup.

The Scorpion (and its variations) are unique hulls visually, and alot of new players join the game and go "Wow, i want that ship!" After weeks and weeks of playing, finally getting to the point when they got the option to start using it, they notice how horrible they all are, and then regret all the time spent on training up the caldari tree when they could (and should have), stopped at Caldari Cruisers.. Even Vic knew it looked cool, but he also knew that after becoming so experienced flying those ships that he could get into a Widow, he could only gank Ventures that was afk-mining. It was cool enough to sport as the trailer for a expansion and hopefully draw in alot of new players to the game, but for him as a person, all it got him was a nice bounty and a trip back to the clone bays. Let us learn from Vic's mistakes, keep the Scorpion variations alive! Dont let it die like this please.



And the absolute worst change with Oddysey? CCP Rise Why change something that isnt broken. Give us CCP Kil2! you're awsome man and we all love you. Dont try to hide from your past, we all know who you are, you scoundrel!
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#139 - 2013-04-09 13:04:36 UTC
Just an fyi man.

You can't have 9 medslots.

Doesn't work.
Van Mathias
Dead Space Continuum
#140 - 2013-04-09 13:04:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Van Mathias
XDMR, I think CCP Rise is a bit invested in Alpha-maels game wise, so they remain untouched. Rokhs and Abaddons on the other hand, have the only bonus that can stand up to alphagank, so they get nerfed.

CCP Rise, please post that resists rebalance thread so that we may try to convince you to change something other than the Rokh and Abaddon's resist bonuses, Your not just nerfing their tanks here, your are also giving a giant middle finger to anyone who has trained Battleship 5 for these ships.

If remote reps + resist tank is OP, lets talk about adding a temporary resist penalty to people who are actively receiving remote reps. There are ways to make the game more interesting and tactical without screwing over those of use who have invested 40 days into BS 5 and 120 days into tech 2 large weapons.

Edit: Here are the changes the Rokh should have gotten:

+25 M3 drone bay
100 m/s base speed
1000 sec cap recharge (Possibly via a 4% per level hull bonus for cap recharge time, BS's should all get 3 hull bonuses each. 2 major, and 1 minor. The Abaddon should get this bonus too.)