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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

First post First post
Author
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2013-04-09 02:41:29 UTC
Alright, the scorpion blows, and I only have 1 suggestion which is kinda a long shot. Give the scorpion 4 launchers or 4 turrets or a mix and give it 8 high slots.
Then give the Scorpion 5 lows and 6 mids.
Then change the ECM module to be a high slot module.

Then redo the Falcon, Rook, Blackbird, Griffin, and tengu (ecm tengu lol) to also have lots of highslots.

Then the scorp can actually tank itself.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Daszder Dondar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-04-09 02:55:23 UTC
I am new to flying BS, just got my first Raven the other day. I do mostly Industry for my Corp. and have only missile skills as a result, thus the Raven is the only BS that makes sense. That being said, these nerfs seem a bit heavy handed. It is already very challenging to get the skills up to fly, and now the base resists are being hacked? Really makes the BS class much less attractive. My goal was to be able to fly an all around BS, to help run missions and support. I don't like being forced into a specific role.

I compare it to manufactures coming out with a new car. Is my old car less by comparison, of course it is, but no one comes to my house and takes things off of the old car. There are players that have spent years training into a perfect fit, now that gets thrown out the window?

First the Drake gets creamed on it's tank, fine.. train into BS, now that is weakened as well. It almost seems as if level 5 skills are being purposely made weak.

Those that have already posted in this thread are far more knowledgeable about the actual numbers on shield resists and everything, but I am beginning to wonder if the BS class is just becoming obsolete. To much specialization can do more harm then good.



Obearoth HuanTao
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-04-09 02:55:32 UTC
Okey, so I didn't think much of these BS to begin with, even less so as a missile oriented pilot.
The only positive thing I can say about this thread, is the suggestions from other capsulers to look to other BS.
Atm, I am actually considering a geddon and dominix over any of these caldary BS.

I mean, if anything you made em worse (hard to imagine ey) and yeah, to make our missile oriented ships viable for anything other then pve, you need to look at the mechanics that make it possible to get hit by 2 volleys from a tempest, before our first missiles even arrive.
Until then, you wont have to make these ships any worse.

As for changes, and positive feedback, its all been said, so please just listen to all the great feedback you have received in this thread

Regards
Obe
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#104 - 2013-04-09 02:56:27 UTC
Until something is done about Cruise and Torpedoes, no one is going to fly the Raven for PVP. Even the missile precision changes can't fix how bad they currently they are.
Daszder Dondar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-04-09 03:03:17 UTC
Agreed about the Cruise problems. How is it balanced to get hit 2 or 3 times before your first salvo even reaches target. If that is the way it is going to be, for pvp anyway, the damage should be increased to compensate.
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2013-04-09 03:06:12 UTC
I think the Rokh should have a damage bonus instead of optimal. It really should, imo, be able to do more dps then a Naga.
Daszder Dondar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-04-09 03:19:13 UTC
When I first read and looked at the streamlining of skills needed to get into the higher end ships, it looked really good and made a lot of sense. I still think so, the old system was rife with over complexity. What I do not understand is why the ships that everyone uses have to be made weaker to accomplish this goal. They seem independent objectives to me.
Van Mathias
Dead Space Continuum
#108 - 2013-04-09 03:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Van Mathias
Quote:
I think the Rokh should have a damage bonus instead of optimal. It really should, imo, be able to do more dps then a Naga.


No, the Rokh is far too slow to use a straight damage bonus effectively. Also it's range bonus IS a damage bonus. Try fitting blasters.

Now I'm off to go sulk over the Rokh nerf.
S1euth
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-04-09 03:46:45 UTC
CCP trying to bring hero tanking back by giving the Scorpion a structure buff to increase its HP. P

It be more useful if a high slot was changed to a low slot; enabling it to participate in armor tanking fleets and still fit at least 1 Signal Distortion Amplifier. In addition, it could also field a couple extra distortion amplifiers and be effective in shield fleets.
krickettt
The Kronos Ritual
#110 - 2013-04-09 04:06:11 UTC
You should really give the Scorpion a 5/8/5 layout since it is primarily armor fit.
Octoven
Noir Holdings
#111 - 2013-04-09 04:11:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)



So in your effort to make the raven a bit faster you actually killed its over all mobility?
Octoven
Noir Holdings
#112 - 2013-04-09 04:13:39 UTC
krickettt wrote:
You should really give the Scorpion a 5/8/5 layout since it is primarily armor fit.



I agree, the offensiveness of the scorp isnt in the weapons, its in the ECMs. The mids occupy this area yet they buffed the structure and shields??? CCP we do NOT shield tank scorps. revert the shields back to original specs and apply those buffs to armor...or swap a HS for an extra low.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#113 - 2013-04-09 06:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Scorp should be stripped out of ECM and remade into Cruise boat.

It is rarely used and I guess there should be a special line of bigger-sized of ewar ships.

Whatever.

Budrick3
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#114 - 2013-04-09 07:20:02 UTC
I feel that the Rohk is fine with its resistance bonus at 5%. Here CCP buffs everyday t1 cruisers, but in regards to battleships, they are just chomping at the bit to nerf them.

Someone explain to me why this is the case. Battleships are supposed to be mean and scary....not, handicaped.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2013-04-09 08:06:30 UTC
Very hard to say anything about the Raven without some info on the Lrg missile changes....

No Worries

Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-04-09 08:18:07 UTC
poor rokh still does not get 75m3 drone bay :(
XDMR
RED SQUAD
#117 - 2013-04-09 08:50:41 UTC
no speedbuff for rokh: check
no dronebay enlargement: check
shieldresinerf: check
me crying: check

Some people say i fly Rokh...

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-04-09 08:54:25 UTC
Much is already said, can't realy judge without seeing the Large missile adjustments.

I've one burning question though.

Why does a ship with a weapon system that fires t1 missiles at 168km a bonus on range and a max base locking range of 75KM

In my SNI the only cruise missile that has a range within my targeting range (113km with skills) is the precision missiles. and that starts with a base targeting range of 90 KM.

So we have a weapon bonus that isn't useful unless you sacriice extra slots aside from your weapons?

so it has one lager missile bonus and one Torp bonus.

I donĀ“t see a massive comeback for the Raven as a PVP ship, with it becoming easier to ly battleships in the future I even see it losing some potential to the Typhoon.

Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-04-09 09:25:22 UTC
as usual caldari are left unloved ...scorpion as only ecm bonus is ok ..but the raven ...u just managing with this patch to replace it with the typhoon...the 7th med slot will make it tank a lil bit better but still the dps is still gonna be weak ..as all the players sugested u need to improve the exp velocity of missiles introduce a mod to make it better like a tracking enhanter anything ...but give it some love the damage reduction is very big ..not to mention on dreads ..is off topic but still anyway look into that and try to do it right ..cuz in the caldari section u doing it wrong atm
Regat Kozovv
Alcothology
#120 - 2013-04-09 09:35:24 UTC
I'm late to this thread, but I thought I'd offer my two cents.

I'm currently the (predominant) writer and maintainer of the Scorpion wiki page.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Scorpion

You'll (the developers/CCP) see here what others have mostly said: The Scorpion is an armor tanked disruption boat. As such, it probably doesn't fit too nicely into tiericide, but like the Typhoon, occupies a special niche where "flexibility" is key.

There are some options besides slow and HP layout that may enable you to bring the Scorpion more in line with Caldari doctrine without reducing it to just another "line" battleship.


  • Shield resistance bonus - If you want to move the Scorpion away from needing an armor tank so much, then place an innate bonus on the shields that won't require a ton of modules to augment. A disruption scorp pilot is going to fit 4-6 ECM, regardless.
  • Mobility bonus - Currently, if you're flying Scorpion in a fleet, you're going to be primaried, regardless. More so than any other defense, a speed tank would really help here. It would give the Caldari another "fast" ship in a race that's too lacking them, and an actual useful defense in the rear of a fleet. Be it a bonus to afterburners, or cap reduction, whathave you.


Of these, I favor the speed route, in so much as it isn't apt to result in alt configurations too out of place with a "Brick" Scorpion configuration of hardeners, extenders, and build-in resists. But it's an option.

You'll note that I don't give much thought to the Scorpion's high slots, and I think that theme should stay (in order to both 1. Sorta justify the Widow) and encourage options with a vessel who's role isn't "attack" anyways. Of course, that gives you room to play. (Hell, be adventurous for once. Give it a smartbomb bonus. =)

I'll add here that, while I'm sure many might disagree, I wasn't thrilled with the result of the SNI, and think a Navy ECM boat would be just supurb.

Despite the many changes to ECM, the Scorpion has done fairly well in being the only survivable EW platform in a fleet. Make sure it endures as such.