Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Rise, if you are actively scanning the thread, word is CCP wants to make ships more fragile to increase isk sink losses, making resists lower on BS's is the wrong way to do this I think. Why not increase the base material costs of all battleship hulls instead?

Oh boy, where to start?

A very long time ago, long before there was a Drake and a Tengu, the Raven used to be the OMG-BBQ-PWN-mobile and everybody was crying, oh no, noo, nooooes dat evil bevil Raven is too OMG-OP.

Then came Empyrian Age I and the once proud ship and powerhouse of the Caldari Navy extinct.

Years later someone had the need to nerf torpedos of their range and make them hit even less than they already did with Empyrian Age.

I can tell you tales of Ravens using torpedos as a sniping weapon up to 90km and nobody to oppose them because if they arrived at their weapon range, they were as good as dead anyway.

Pinky, what buff are you talking about?
If you meant nerf, I happily agree with you.

Dear CCP Rise,
please do yourself a favor and use your CCP all V account, fit a Raven and do all level 4 missions and tell me again you need to take "some" ehp away.
After that, do a 1 vs 1 with CCP Fozzie in a Megathron and tell me what you were thinking.
Use the current and your proposed stats in comparison, you may be surprised how bad the Raven will perform.

Unless everything bad that has happened over the years to torpedos and cruise missiles and giving cruise missiles somewhat like 200% more base damage to make them worthwhile, I don't see them viable.

So far I agree to any points people said about the Scorpion.
I made a post years back, that the Scorpion should be made a battleship and not a large ecm boat with no guns, it should be more like a large Rook.
Somebody may even remember that the Scorpion used to be a turret boat.

And a last comment about the signal resolutions on Caldari battleships,
really 83mm on the Rokh?
Doesn't that get "slightly" close to the capital ship compartments?

Maybe you should decrease them even further, so they may never even lock anyone anymore and just sit there?

Seriously, it's impossible to give feedback on the Raven when we don't know what's going to happen with torps or cruise. I don't understand why those changes aren't being done at the same time.

As it stands, the torp velocity bonus is not very useful because it only increases the range of torps from ~20 km to ~30 km. This would be great if the Raven was able to kite in that region, but "kite" and "Raven will never be used together", the Raven simply doesn't have the mobility to keep a target in that window and hence make good use of the bonus. Nor, with 20 km base range on torps, is the bonus powerful enough to give a good damage projection advantage over the Typhoon. Now, if you turn round and say you're upping the range of torps by 50-75%, this would change things - but we don't know your plans for torps...

As for cruise, well, the extra range from the missile velocity bonus is not useful at all. The reduced flight time is vaguely useful; the greater ease of hitting fast targets is also only slightly useful - as seen by Drake blobs, whose HMs are able to chase down fast targets despite the lack of a missile velocity bonus. Cruise needs much more help than torps, and may well consist of speed and damage bonuses, but it's impossible to judge the value of a future cruise Raven and give feedback on these changes until we know what's happening with cruise!

The Raven is renowned for being flimsy. Getting an extra medslot is nice; losing base HP at the same time is silly. In a world of ABCs, BS need a very substantially superior tank to make up for the reduced mobility.

Hey, just a stream of consciousness based on what some other folks in the thread have said, what if ECM modules *did* become high-slot?

Scorpion: 2 token launcher hardpoints, 0 turret hardpoints
8 highs
6 mids
4 lows

Fit a rack of ECM on the highs, in the mids you can have MWD, , cap booster, 2x invuln / 1x LSE, Sensor booster. Lows can be a mix of signal amps / signal distortion amps / PDUs / whatever.

Basically, it would be able to attack and tank at the same time, rather than having one rack of slots entirely useless.

That would be sexy.

Yeah, but the Drake is really slow too! It works despite being a slowarse because of decent weapon systems and solid tank - can we say the same for the Raven?

Stuff is changing but nothing is really changing.

Please not that taking HP away from these ships will kill the chance of an effective active tank. The trend of Eve is bigger groups of players and ships will often receive large amounts of damage. Even with a 7th medslot the Raven will break over like a baked turd no matter how strong an active tank you have.

This goes for Hyperion too - They need a decent buffer for active repping to take effect or everything will be pointless... The 7th slot on the unresisted Raven is not a huge threat so don't cut the wings yet, please...

My point exactly, why fly a BS when a strat cruiser owns any BS that isnt a pirate faction model? You spend about as much SP and ISK into either of those options, but one is so much stupidly better than the other.

So battleships as a class are still going to be inferior to everything else?

You should have waited until you release battleship weapon updates before showing us this.

Looks reasonable but as mentioned, we need to know the upcoming changes to BS sized missiles in order to make a proper judgement, right now the Raven looks better, but still miles away behind other BS.

Please tell me I didn't train T2 Cruise for nothing!