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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction War Data

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Author
X Gallentius
Easy Eight
#181 - 2013-03-14 16:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game.
I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play.

Edit: delete, moving text
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#182 - 2013-03-14 16:38:27 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Cearain wrote:
One of the great things about the faction war plex system is that it could force both sides to leave the blob and spread out The current system is not really doing that. Would you agree?


I don't agree, but close. The previous system didn't force both sides to leave the blob, just like the current system doesn't. However, the current system punishes those that branch out on their own because they can't maintain around the clock control of their system so they can dock.



I am not really comparing faction war with what it was. I am comparing it to what it could be.

Right now due to station lockouts and the lp structure we have a system where no one really cares about occupancy in the other 90% of the systems. The only thing that matters is whether you have a blob big enough to hold your base system. This might be fine for allot of people. There is no arguing for taste, but I would say that eve already offers mechanics, in null, sec for those who like that type of thing.

I would prefer that they create an occupancy war where people do care about the other 90% of the systems so they spread out and fight for them. That is why I would prefer an end to the station lockouts and a return of a cashout system.

Obviously, ccp also needs to do some things to make plexing a pvp activity as well. Well I think its obvious others may be fine with it.

But whatever. Thanks for the info on the systems. I did have more good fights last night. I had three unexpected losses. But I had lots of action, which is what matters.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#183 - 2013-03-14 16:40:16 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game.
I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play.



Could you please tell my wife I rarely play eve?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#184 - 2013-03-14 16:43:11 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
As long as people prefer stabbed farmer alts grinding lp better choice than pvp char fw will never be good.
So FW was good back when you had 3 stabbed farmer alts defensive plexing for no LP? (they gained standings quicker and then ran one-time COSMOS missions with them)


My alts never have stabs. Any way those alts did something no one else wanted to do, plex. Now CCP give rewards for plexing but it did not help much, same alts do same as before.

No matter how players try to invent improvements it will just go worse. CCP should take ball on their own hand and try to make something better than alt farm.

Sad thing is that CCP interest and player interest are not same, CCP want to sell more accounts but player want better game with less alts and more mains. One good fight is better than killing 100 farmers.
X Gallentius
Easy Eight
#185 - 2013-03-14 16:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game.
I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play.
Could you please tell my wife I rarely play eve?


I think I know your issue. You want Eve Online and FW to be a solo game where you never need to interact with anybody. Log in. Look at Nofication. Find targets. Kill them.

What your "notification system" would achieve is the same thing that intel channels achieve for the rest of us. What we know, from being in intel channels for years, is that people aren't all that interested in chasing rabbits in far off systems even if they know the rabbits are there. (I've done it, I do it, it's not a thing anybody can do for any length of time.) People don't even like chasing rabbits in systems 1-2 jumps away unless there is a real threat to their docking rights. So that's where we're coming from on the Notification System issue.

Edit: And yes I was thinking about your statement w.r.t plexes within 5 jumps. With the current intel channels we have, I can know where WTs are within 2-3 jumps of our home system, and even more systems further away where our guys live. Same deal though. People will travel for pvp, they won't travel for pushing out rabbits. Also, the targets that are more interested in pvp tend to arrive at our doorstep in systems we deem worthy to pvp in (the ones we need to defend). Only the rabbits plex in unpopulated systems away from the front lines.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#186 - 2013-03-14 16:55:05 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.

The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.

It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.

I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well.


What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum.

The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time.

And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#187 - 2013-03-14 16:58:52 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Oh and I love the fact that you say I am lazy because I am not willing to spend even more time playing a computer game.
I agree you're not lazy. You spend a significant amount of time posting on forums about a game you rarely play.
Could you please tell my wife I rarely play eve?


I think I know your issue. You want Eve Online and FW to be a solo game where you never need to interact with anybody. Log in. Look at Nofication. Find targets. Kill them.

What your "notification system" would achieve is the same thing that intel channels achieve for the rest of us. What we know, from being in intel channels for years, is that people aren't all that interested in chasing rabbits in far off systems even if they know the rabbits are there. (I've done it, I do it, it's not a thing anybody can do for any length of time.) People don't even like chasing rabbits in systems 1-2 jumps away unless there is a real threat to their docking rights. So that's where we're coming from on the Notification System issue.

Edit: And yes I was thinking about your statement w.r.t plexes within 5 jumps. With the current intel channels we have, I can know where WTs are within 2-3 jumps of our home system, and even more systems further away where our guys live. Same deal though. People will travel for pvp, they won't travel for pushing out rabbits. Also, the targets that are more interested in pvp tend to arrive at our doorstep in systems we deem worthy to pvp in (the ones we need to defend). Only the rabbits plex in unpopulated systems away from the front lines.


No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.

When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."

Nice try to misrepresent this though.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Easy Eight
#188 - 2013-03-14 17:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.

When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."

Nice try to misrepresent this though.

I report wt intel in the channels all the time - probably to the annoyance of everybody since nobody wants to bother chasing the rabbits around. And all you have to do is ask and people will tell you where the rabbits are. For your intel channels - don't you think more people would report rabbits if asked, or if other people actually wanted to chase them?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#189 - 2013-03-14 17:15:10 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.

When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."

Nice try to misrepresent this though.

I report wt intel in the channels all the time - probably to the annoyance of everybody since nobody wants to bother chasing the rabbits around. And all you have to do is ask and people will tell you where the rabbits are and people will respond. For your intel channels - don't you think more people would report rabbits if asked, or if other people actually wanted to chase them?


I like about your reporting, my alts are saved many times because of those.
X Gallentius
Easy Eight
#190 - 2013-03-14 17:16:48 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:

I like about your reporting, my alts are saved many times because of those.

Proof that I'm not BS'ing about our intel channels. Big smile
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#191 - 2013-03-14 18:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.

The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.

It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.

I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well.


What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum.

The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time.

And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another.






Wow, a good old bait and switch. Ask a specific question, then say the answer is irrelevant and not even what you were talking about. Your contribution to the forum is legendary.

And for the record, i dont care that people dont care about specific systems that no one lives in. I dont see that as broken at all. I reject your presupposition that every system in the war zone should be as important as any other. I believe its reasonable that bounce systems exist and are swung with little pvp, which is perfect since their status doesnt effect anyone directly. I think its reasonable that the tier system be based on total number of systems even if i think the tier system is a little too steep.

Your lack of suggestions to create that cross warzone care speaks loudly. Even if a magical solution to remove all farmers was patched in tomorrow, it still wouldnt make me any more aware of where mantenault is or how to get there, You are like some crazy guy on youtube ive seen that argues day and night that life should not exist. He knows its a futile argument, he just likes arguing.

Anyway, im sure you have something to impotently complain about, so do go on.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#192 - 2013-03-14 21:11:08 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
No wrong again. I was in militia with the intel channels - no one does that.

When you proposed that people do that the response from people even in your militia - Princess Nexxala - was along the lines of "too much work for a game" not "we already do that."

Nice try to misrepresent this though.

I report wt intel in the channels all the time - probably to the annoyance of everybody since nobody wants to bother chasing the rabbits around. And all you have to do is ask and people will tell you where the rabbits are. For your intel channels - don't you think more people would report rabbits if asked, or if other people actually wanted to chase them?



There would be no more chasing if we knew where the complexes were being captured. If they run then you can stay and cap the plex. If they go several jumps you don't need to care because someone close by can fight for that plex.

You seem to think your haphazard statements in an intel channel are the same as a comprehensive notification system. It's not. People can and do capture plexes when 99% of the opposing militia doesn't even know they are capturing it. Of course it will be a pve system.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-03-14 21:21:46 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.

The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.

It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.

I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well.


What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum.

The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time.

And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another.





Again, please answer the question of how you make this PVP based? Right now,it is PVP based but the problem is nobody is showing up to fight from the other side. How do you fix this? Notifications? Notifications won't change anything, as the stabbed-"PVPer" will still run away, so people will just ignore the notifications. Therefore the stabbed-"PVPer" still wins at PVP because nobody showed up to fight him. What you need is timer rollback or something to make the stabbed-"PVPer" lose something when he runs away to farm another plex until you get bored of chasing him and he can return to take the original plex with no time lost.

.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#194 - 2013-03-14 21:43:09 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Caldari were going to flip the vulnerable gallente systems in the last week leading up to the scheduled expansion. We were just going to swing them a week or so earlier so we could get the now caldari system back to vulnerable and swing them back to gallente just before the expansion.

The systems we actually did flip much earlier were swing because they were just sat there counting towards our system total. As we make a push to tier 5 the caldari could have just come and bashed the bunker. So before out tier 5 push, we simply swung them to caldari, farmed them back to vuln and swung them along with all the other systems as part of out push. This took the uncertainty out of our hands, and the ability for caldari to swing these now newly gallente systems to counter our cashout.

It is really clear that you are acutely ignorant of the meta game in fw. Explaining these things to you is pretty much like talking to a high sec carebear.

I know you are going to igore everything ive said here and just keep saying the same things over and over. Oh well.


What you tell me is nothing new it was discussed on the forums and blogs adnauseum.

The main problem was the ability to bring a system from uncontested to vulnerable fast with pve. If you had to actually pvp in order to get those systems vulnerable this issue would go away. You would be much more hesitant to flip the system if you didn't know you could farm it back so fast. Plus you are only talking about very few flips given the huge number of systems flipping at the time.

And you dropped all the points I made in my earlier post. The game has changed in so many ways your discussion of the meta game back then is hardly even relevant. But yes now with the forever grind, fw players don't even care enough about occupancy to even want to flip 90% of the systems one way or another.





Again, please answer the question of how you make this PVP based? Right now,it is PVP based but the problem is nobody is showing up to fight from the other side. How do you fix this? Notifications? Notifications won't change anything, as the stabbed-"PVPer" will still run away, so people will just ignore the notifications. Therefore the stabbed-"PVPer" still wins at PVP because nobody showed up to fight him.


The answer again - just as it was before inferno - is to have notifications and some form of timer rollback.

I disagreewith you on your assessment of notifications. The stabbed pilot will generally be 2 or less jumps from somebody roaming so he will constantly get chased out. Since he will constantly get chased out he will no longer make any lp. Since he will no longer make lp he will no longer stay in farm plexes. With a notification system and some form of timer rollback fw would just need about 4 -7 active pilots who want to pvp and all plex farming would end. Then the pvpers will start to join fw and we will see massive plex fighting throughout the warzone, not just a blob in 2 or 3 systems.


Andre Vauban wrote:

What you need is timer rollback or something to make the stabbed-"PVPer" lose something when he runs away to farm another plex until you get bored of chasing him and he can return to take the original plex with no time lost.


I agree with this. Whether this alone will be enough, I doubt it, but I admit I don't know.

It seems ccp has dropped this idea as I haven't heard about it since it noted it didn't make it in retribution. Hence I am continuing to post facts about the occupancy war so that ccp and players will not just drop the idea.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#195 - 2013-03-14 22:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
I seems a lot of people are not around pew pewing atm because they are too busy dplexing.

Dplexing is where I think the pve gets to be a bit too much. (LP is not my concern - I don't care if defensive plexs pay nothing)

I and a few corpies have been on for an hour or two most nights this week (au tz) and there are no fw people looking for fights.
Everyone is stuck in a dplexing grind to keep their homes safe. (Including us)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#196 - 2013-03-14 22:29:40 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
I seems a lot of people are not around pew pewing atm because they are too busy dplexing.

Dplexing is where I think the pve gets to be a bit too much. (LP is not my concern - I don't care if defensive plexs pay nothing)

I and a few corpies have been on for an hour or two most nights this week (au tz) and there are no fw people looking for fights.
Everyone is stuck in a dplexing grind to keep their homes safe. (Including us)


Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.

I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.

If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Easy Eight
#197 - 2013-03-14 23:30:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
If they run then you can stay and cap the plex.
We already have several opportunities to run down plexes in backwater systems every single day without your notification system. Roll ( I thought you wanted to make it a pvp mechanic, not a chase-then pve mechanic)
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#198 - 2013-03-15 02:31:40 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.

I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.

If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.


Being in FW adds content to the game for me.

I have a reason to shoot people in FW - even if it is RP based, it's content that gives me a defined goals and targets.

As a pirate I would have to consider people I know/like in Caldari as targets - I personally do not wish to shoot at the people I have known/flown with all this time.





Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#199 - 2013-03-15 02:48:10 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If they run then you can stay and cap the plex.
We already have several opportunities to run down plexes in backwater systems every single day without your notification system. Roll ( I thought you wanted to make it a pvp mechanic, not a chase-then pve mechanic)


Lets face it, the guys a ******* ******. Im just saying what everyones thinking.
ALUCARD 1208
Death by Design.
#200 - 2013-03-16 11:16:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
I seems a lot of people are not around pew pewing atm because they are too busy dplexing.

Dplexing is where I think the pve gets to be a bit too much. (LP is not my concern - I don't care if defensive plexs pay nothing)

I and a few corpies have been on for an hour or two most nights this week (au tz) and there are no fw people looking for fights.
Everyone is stuck in a dplexing grind to keep their homes safe. (Including us)


Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.

I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.

If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.




so we should just all quit fw and play ur way cos ccp wont make fw how you alone want it