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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction War Data

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Author
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#201 - 2013-03-18 15:28:09 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Allot of the pvpers in amarr base out of egghelende which is a low sec system that is near the center of the war zone but not actually a faction war system. That way they can spend their game time pvping instead of deplexing.

I just left the militia all together and love the ability to dock/reship anywhere plus you are not blue to about 2/5ths of the people you see in plexes. 99% of my pvp is still in and around plexes. Your scanner will still show them even though you are not in fw.

If you are not in fw for the lp there is no reason to be in fw now. The removal of the 15 minute gcc means the "free wardec" has almost no significance.


Being in FW adds content to the game for me.

I have a reason to shoot people in FW - even if it is RP based, it's content that gives me a defined goals and targets.

As a pirate I would have to consider people I know/like in Caldari as targets - I personally do not wish to shoot at the people I have known/flown with all this time.




I think the reason to shoot people is important. But fw really doesn't add much in that regard - its pretty much rvb. IMO the occupancy mechanic is a joke.

As far as shooting people you have flown with, I agree thats a drawback in some cases. I really don't know who most of the thousands of people in the amarr and caldari faction war are. Moreover, there were always a few people I wished I could shoot in the amarr militia and now I can.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#202 - 2013-03-18 15:53:58 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Cearain wrote:

I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system.


This is an issue with your analysis - right now, there's not enough people in FW to really populate all the systems. So activity is centered around a few systems, and no-one but farmers really care about the other systems.

....



It's hard to say the problem is with the number of players. The miliitas have about 19,000 pilots to cover 170 systems.

The problem is there are not enough active pvpers. I predict that if the fw occupancy mechanic was more of a pvp mechanic more pvpers would participate and the 170 systems would easilly be covered. Just like now its a pve mechanic so we get allot of pvers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

ALUCARD 1208
Death by Design.
Fraternity.
#203 - 2013-03-18 17:23:55 UTC
11 pages in and still same bull just a different spin on it
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-03-18 18:04:26 UTC
Cearain. It looks like you basically want a channel with even more free intel. Isn't local, dotlan, the contested status of every system, beacons visible on the overview, and the Dscanner not enough?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#205 - 2013-03-18 18:38:57 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Cearain. It looks like you basically want a channel with even more free intel. Isn't local, dotlan, the contested status of every system, beacons visible on the overview, and the Dscanner not enough?




Should soldiers in the army pay the government to let them know where they need to go fight?

Should the militia charge its members to let them know where their military complexes are being attacked?

Your complaint against "free intel" is pretty silly. But Ill play along, how much should we pay for it? How about 1 million isk a week so that my miliita will notify me where its military complexes are being attacked?

But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#206 - 2013-03-18 18:40:48 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
11 pages in and still same bull just a different spin on it



4 years and the same problem with occupancy so of course the solution is the same. CCP never did anything to address the real problem with occupancy. They just threw isk at it. People didn't care about it before inferno and people don't care now.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2013-03-18 19:45:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:


But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex.


Having your militia providing intel is a pve mechanic. Having NPCs do this for you is a pvp mechanic. Ok.

I wouldn't mind a notification to say that plexes are being run in a system. But having a perfect rundown of your enemies fleet composition every time they pass a plex gate seems a bit much.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#208 - 2013-03-18 20:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Cearain. It looks like you basically want a channel with even more free intel. Isn't local, dotlan, the contested status of every system, beacons visible on the overview, and the Dscanner not enough?




Should soldiers in the army pay the government to let them know where they need to go fight?

Should the militia charge its members to let them know where their military complexes are being attacked?

Your complaint against "free intel" is pretty silly. But Ill play along, how much should we pay for it? How about 1 million isk a week so that my miliita will notify me where its military complexes are being attacked?

But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex.


Ok so, i think this would be a good time to remind you that this is a computer game. Part of the fun is the hunt. PvP's a journey, not a destination.

Speaking of which, i started hunting you when your other toon passed through nis the yesterday. I was elbow deep in pvp and potential pvp all night in that area. You just passed through without pausing for long enough to do a quick d-scan survey.

You are truly terrible at finding pvp in eve. If i were YOU, i would want a notification of everyones whereabouts too.

As far as plexing goes, i can honestly say that 90% of the plexes i have entered in the last few days have lead to pvp. People farming vacant plexes? who cares, only you. But i doubt you could articulate why other than you like to cry about stuff, constantly.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#209 - 2013-03-19 19:22:03 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Cearain wrote:


But I will answer your question: Its obviously not enough since the mechanic is clearly a pve mechanic. The first step to making it pvp, as XG says, is to have someone show up to contest the plex. Well the first step in doing that is letting people know where they need to go to contest the plex.


Having your militia providing intel is a pve mechanic. Having NPCs do this for you is a pvp mechanic. Ok.

I wouldn't mind a notification to say that plexes are being run in a system. But having a perfect rundown of your enemies fleet composition every time they pass a plex gate seems a bit much.


Finding another player to fight is the first and longest step to pvp. So although yes it would be the npc militia letting you know where the complexes are being attacked it would in fact lead to pvp.

As for not giving exact details on ship types - I would prefer it, but even just letting us know where our military complexes are being attacked would be a start. Currently "hide and plex" is how to plex most efficiently and it is not very fun or warlike.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#210 - 2013-03-19 19:27:38 UTC
It's a good time to remind everybody that Cearain's proposals do not accomplish his stated goal. His proposals are "chase rabbit-then pve" - which, of course, we can do already.
Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
#211 - 2013-03-19 19:33:25 UTC
Jeez man, your notification system sucks big time, everyone who IS actually in faction warfare can tell you that. Not only would people get spammed all the time with "notificacions" ([[Local Defense: Vlillrier is under attack!]) but it does nothing that people in intel channels don´t already do.

That´s what intel channels are for. If you want a group that will keep posting intel, help them do it, show them how. Our intel channels are pretty busy and people report wts in plexes all over the place. The decision to go and fight them is a pvp decision made by players, according to what they are doing, what they are flying, if they care for the system being reported or not etc.

If you want more people fighting over more backwater systems, then we the players are the ones with the obligation to recruit more players and more corporations for FW and convince them to go live near those systems. Gallente has people living in vlill, Eha, Essesier, Nisuya, Heyd (I hope after we re-took it last night), Eugales and so on. Those corps and pilots actively defend their systems, and those around them.

If your problem is the farmers, well, everything in Eve has those. Everything. Farmers will farm stop worrying about them. As it is right now it´s working MUCH better than it was before.

CCP created a system that encourages communication and collaboration between players and corporations. I don´t want the npcs to do our job for us.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#212 - 2013-03-19 19:40:47 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Ok so, i think this would be a good time to remind you that this is a computer game. Part of the fun is the hunt. PvP's a journey, not a destination..



You may like "hunting" I think its boring. I like fighting.

Eve has plenty of mechanics for those who like to roam around "hunting." But very few where you get allot of fighting.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Speaking of which, i started hunting you when your other toon passed through nis the yesterday. I was elbow deep in pvp and potential pvp all night in that area. You just passed through without pausing for long enough to do a quick d-scan survey..


If that is the case I was probably in low structure and just looking to get repairs. Or all the plexes were within 14 au and I could tell they were all empty or of ship types and numbers I couldn't match. Here is a tip, you can scan while you are still under your gate cloak.

I have found that I can sit in the main gallente hubs and if anything comes it will be at least 3 destroyers and a griffin to fight a t1 frigate.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

You are truly terrible at finding pvp in eve. If i were YOU, i would want a notification of everyones whereabouts too..



You of course don't know what you are talking about. You see my ship one time leave a system and presume to know how good I am at finding pvp.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:

As far as plexing goes, i can honestly say that 90% of the plexes i have entered in the last few days have lead to pvp..



Thats probably because you wait until your buddy gets a point on something before you come in to blob it.

I do see you crowing in local about your gatecamping skills or how you are so good with your boosters. None of which are of interest to me.


Crosi Wesdo wrote:

People farming vacant plexes? who cares, only you. But i doubt you could articulate why other than you like to cry about stuff, constantly.


I have articulated why I think it would be great if the fighting in plexes was going on throughout fw.

You have said numerous times that you do not care about occupancy in 90% of systems. Under the current system I agree. Actually under the current system I don't care about it in 100% of the systems. Thats why I left fw and just go in plexes for the pvp.

You can keep gate camping blobbing and bragging in local, it seems to be your calling in this game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#213 - 2013-03-19 19:53:00 UTC
Juan Rayo wrote:
Jeez man, your notification system sucks big time, everyone who IS actually in faction warfare can tell you that.

Its not my idea. It was proposed years ago. And has been supported by many people in faction war until fw started drawing farmers like crazy.

So yeah now lots of people in fw are against their farming income being nerfed - no surprise.

Juan Rayo wrote:

Not only would people get spammed all the time with "notificacions" ([[Local Defense: Vlillrier is under attack!]) but it does nothing that people in intel channels don´t already do..


You should be able to filter the notifications. And the player intel channels are weak. When XG suggested people start notifying the militia when they see plexers the response was that it is too much work for a computer game. The reponse is correct.

Juan Rayo wrote:

That´s what intel channels are for. If you want a group that will keep posting intel, help them do it, show them how. Our intel channels are pretty busy and people report wts in plexes all over the place. The decision to go and fight them is a pvp decision made by players, according to what they are doing, what they are flying, if they care for the system being reported or not etc..


Any player made ad hoc system will never have the efficiency or effectiveness of a set notification system. The farmers are not detered from the occassional report of a plexer.

Juan Rayo wrote:

If you want more people fighting over more backwater systems, then we the players are the ones with the obligation to recruit more players and more corporations for FW and convince them to go live near those systems. Gallente has people living in vlill, Eha, Essesier, Nisuya, Heyd (I hope after we re-took it last night), Eugales and so on. Those corps and pilots actively defend their systems, and those around them...


There are currently about 19000 players in faction war and the number of systems being fought over is only 170. I don't think we need more players. The pvpers need better tools.

Juan Rayo wrote:

If your problem is the farmers, well, everything in Eve has those. Everything. Farmers will farm stop worrying about them. As it is right now it´s working MUCH better than it was before..


Yes its better than before. But its still broken.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#214 - 2013-03-19 19:56:56 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
It's a good time to remind everybody that Cearain's proposals do not accomplish his stated goal. His proposals are "chase rabbit-then pve" - which, of course, we can do already.


XG you continue to try to argue against letting players know where plexes are being taken so that they can fight for them. Just how much do your alts make?

No chasing necessary if you have a notification system. And there would be far less pve in plexes, and far more pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

ALUCARD 1208
Death by Design.
Fraternity.
#215 - 2013-03-19 20:01:10 UTC
sooooo heres how it goes .... gets notifaction of plex being run in a backwater it still doesnt go and get defended cos its a bacwater and noone gives a fk............. ya makes it a total pvp mechanic huh
Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
#216 - 2013-03-19 20:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Juan Rayo
Cearain wrote:


There are currently about 19000 players in faction war and the number of systems being fought over is only 170. I don't think we need more players. The pvpers need better tools.


And how them are active, an how many of those live in lowsec? I know for a fact good, regular size gallente corp live in either highsec or non fw lowsec. A huge Amarr fw alliance lives in non fw system. How many caldari live in Icho or around in their highsec?

This is not CCP´s faul, it´s player decisions. If those people decided to live in lowsec and fight for their systems, even more of them would be fought for.

You are taking a very particular fw experience (yours) and trying to force it down everybody else´s throats, even while many of us IN faction warfare keep telling you there is a lot of pvp happening, and we have the killboards to prove it. You maybe saw Crossi gatecamping once, and decided that´s all he does even while his KB will show you the huge ammount of solo or small gang fights the man gets involved with. His secret? He goes out and LOOKS for fights, no notification needed.

As for intel channels being too much work? again,. that´s a player problem not a CCP problem. If some guy decides it´s too much work to report intel, that´s his problem. There are enough of us in galmil with both regional and "whole area" channels that do report them and get into fights.
ALUCARD 1208
Death by Design.
Fraternity.
#217 - 2013-03-19 20:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
tbh noone apart from cearein said reporting was too much work. I just think thats a code for noone liked him and he never got into intel channels...... thats what this whole debates probably about his own shortcomings in fw and his inability to find targets in a target rich environment hence his need for a "map" to show him were to go...... << also in b4 the thats what she said jokes ;)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#218 - 2013-03-19 20:17:51 UTC
Juan Rayo wrote:
Cearain wrote:


There are currently about 19000 players in faction war and the number of systems being fought over is only 170. I don't think we need more players. The pvpers need better tools.


And how them are active, an how many of those live in lowsec? I know for a fact good, regular size gallente corp live in either highsec or non fw lowsec. A huge Amarr fw alliance lives in non fw system. How many caldari live in Icho or around in their highsec?.


They all have active accounts.
I don't know the answers to the other questions. Lots of them are no doubt alts farming plexes contributing little or nothing to pvp yet having a huge impact on occupancy.

Juan Rayo wrote:

This is not CCP´s faul, it´s player decisions. If those people decided to live in lowsec and fight for their systems, even more of them would be fought for.


Well ccp was told that just throwing isk at faction war plexing, without making them more of a pvp mechanic, would lead to this. Yet they decided to just throw isk at plexing and this is what we got.

Juan Rayo wrote:

You are taking a very particular fw experience (yours) and trying to force it down everybody else´s throats, even while many of us IN faction warfare keep telling you there is a lot of pvp happening, and we have the killboards to prove it. You maybe saw Crossi gatecamping once, and decided that´s all he does even while his KB will show you the huge ammount of solo or small gang fights the man gets involved with. His secret? He goes out and LOOKS for fights, no notification needed.


I don't doubt that their is more pvp in low sec and in faction war in particular. But the pvp in faction war has very little to do with occupancy. The 90% of the top vp gainers are not pvping at all.

Juan Rayo wrote:

As for intel channels being too much work? again,. that´s a player problem not a CCP problem. If some guy decides it´s too much work to report intel, that´s his problem. There are enough of us in galmil with both regional and "whole area" channels that do report them and get into fights.


Again getting in fights does not = winning the occupancy war. When gallente did their push to gain occupancy their pvp per pilot was much lower than it was after that occupancy push ended. I am not saying people in the miltiias never pvp. My point is that the occupancy war should not be the carebear race it currently is.

You say its not ccps fault that the occupancy war is a carebear race. I disagree. It is a natural result of the mechanics they put in place and yes it is working as predicted.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#219 - 2013-03-19 20:20:24 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
tbh noone apart from cearein said reporting was too much work. I just think thats a code for noone liked him and he never got into intel channels...... thats what this whole debates probably about his own shortcomings in fw and his inability to find targets in a target rich environment hence his need for a "map" to show him were to go...... << also in b4 the thats what she said jokes ;)



Princess Nexxala made the comment that it was too much work.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#220 - 2013-03-19 20:39:38 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
sooooo heres how it goes .... gets notifaction of plex being run in a backwater it still doesnt go and get defended cos its a bacwater and noone gives a fk............. ya makes it a total pvp mechanic huh



Nope people flying around would set the destination and be there ready to fight in minutes. If you kept warping off then this combined with a timer rollback would mean no more lp for farmers. Hence everyone in a plex would be ready to fight for it. The number of fights per plex would skyrocket and the fw occupancy war would stop being a carebear joke. Winning all the systems would actually be something to be proud of.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815