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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction War Data

First post
Author
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#141 - 2013-03-13 21:34:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Yeah right. I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the top five vp earners were plexing yesterday. I know you were online. But you just can't admit you in fact don't know where people are plexing. Knowing where people are plexing is the basic first step "showing up to contest the plex."
Yeah right. chatgris' alt goes from Nisuwa to Notoras. Every single Caldari FW player knows this. You know it now too. Join Caldari FW and go stop his alt from plexing those two systems.

Put up or shut up. The fact is that you want other people to do things that you aren't willing to do yourself.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#142 - 2013-03-13 21:40:21 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate


and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it?



No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them.


At this moment i have more state pro LP than fedef LP from flipping gallente systems to caldari in a shell corp. Also, it worked out perfectly well, enabling us to start stacking up vuln caldari systems for a tier push well before they would otherwise have been available.

Does it take effort to be wrong on nearly every topic or is it a talent?



You would know. We weren't even talking about plexing to bring a system vulnerable. We were talking about flipping systems that were already vulnerable. Doh!



BTW I like the way ALUCARD 1208 says flipping vulnerable systems only happened after cashouts. He appearantly doesn't realize that there was actually no financial or other reason to flip a system before inferno.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#143 - 2013-03-13 21:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Yeah right. I'm still waiting for you to tell me where the top five vp earners were plexing yesterday. I know you were online. But you just can't admit you in fact don't know where people are plexing. Knowing where people are plexing is the basic first step "showing up to contest the plex."
Yeah right. chatgris' alt goes from Nisuwa to Notoras. Every single Caldari FW player knows this. You know it now too. Join Caldari FW and go stop his alt from plexing those two systems.

Put up or shut up. The fact is that you want other people to do things that you aren't willing to do yourself.



You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.

edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#144 - 2013-03-13 21:46:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:
You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.

edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt?

At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are.

But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#145 - 2013-03-13 21:50:40 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Fact is, the cash out system meant people paid attention to occupancy outside of 5 or 6 systems. Even your corp joined minmatar due to the occupancy mechanics. That is a far cry from the current system that no one cares about.

It meant people cared about occupancy 1-4 days a month or whatever it took to flip all the systems en-mass. Otherwise, people still didn't care what happened in far off non-home systems.



They had to care unless they wanted their cashout to be half value.


X Gallentius wrote:

You liked the old system, not because it was based on any sort of rational game play that resulted in people fighting for occupancy all over the map (which I guess is what you prefer since you've whined about us not doing so for about 3 months now), but because you thought it favored your side. It was a way for your side to be able to cash out at Tier 5 while giving a big F.U. to the Minmatar at the same time.


Huh? amarr never cashed out at tier 5. In fact I think the cashout system was superior, despite the fact that my faction was the only one that did not get a tier 5 cashout.

I gave several reasons why the cashout system was superior to the forever grind system we have now. You may want to read them if you are going to talk about why I liked it.

X Gallentius wrote:

Plans were made by the Gallente militia (before the "October surprise") to move all of our capital pilot alts into the Caldari militia to force them into Tier 5 early enough for our side to flip it back before Retribution was released. Even planning on doing things like this shows everybody what lousy mechanic the Inferno version was compared to the current version.


I bolded the important part. It was the upcoming change that was the issue. It would not be smart to do this otherwise.

And no just because people have bad strategies to deal with a mechanic does not mean the mechanic is broken. If I want to fly my rifter directly at a tornado so there is no transversal and get blapped that is not proof the mechanics are bad.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#146 - 2013-03-13 21:53:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
And no just because people have bad strategies to deal with a mechanic does not mean the mechanic is broken.
You, and only you, are the only person who thinks a system of mass occupancy flips once a month is not broken.

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#147 - 2013-03-13 21:59:19 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate


and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it?



No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them.


At this moment i have more state pro LP than fedef LP from flipping gallente systems to caldari in a shell corp. Also, it worked out perfectly well, enabling us to start stacking up vuln caldari systems for a tier push well before they would otherwise have been available.

Does it take effort to be wrong on nearly every topic or is it a talent?



You would know. We weren't even talking about plexing to bring a system vulnerable. We were talking about flipping systems that were already vulnerable. Doh!



What? The state LP i have IS from bunker busting hubs in a small cap fleet. Perhaps if you slowed down you posting the quality would improve? It worked out well. Things were set to do this on a much larger scale to get a good start moving forwards but the ninja patch removed any need for this.

Also, one look at both of your toons killboard shows that you have always been terrible at finding pvp. One look at your forum posts show you probably always will be.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#148 - 2013-03-13 21:59:34 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.

edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt?

At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are.

But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that.



I don't need to join to chase alts.

Tell me, what plexes are being taken within 5 jumps of your character right now?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#149 - 2013-03-13 22:03:55 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.

edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt?

At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are.

But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that.



I don't need to join to chase alts.

Tell me, what plexes are being taken within 5 jumps of your character right now?


what? and save you the 5 minutes required to answer that yourself? The only answer that is needed here is 'some'. Armed with that knowledge it shouldnt take too much effort to elaborate on that.

Intelligence isnt a problem in fw. just in your head.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#150 - 2013-03-13 22:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Cearain wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills

Vast majority are white systems showing zero or only 1 kill. Just a few systems that seem hot.


Well, I don't really have any experience outside of the US TZ except for a few weekend all nighters - though the 24 hr kills show quite a bit of activity.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills24
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#151 - 2013-03-13 22:07:19 UTC
chatgris wrote:

Well, I don't really have any experience outside of the US TZ except for a few weekend all nighters - though the 24 hr kills show quite a bit of activity.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills24

FW low sec is the most active pvp region in all of Eve right now.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#152 - 2013-03-13 22:12:59 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
You claim you know where everyone is plexing but you still haven't told me where the top five have plexed. I think we know why.

edit: Or are you saying that one of the top five is Chatgris's alt?

At some point you'll understand the difference between knowing where a group of players are and where specific players are.

But in any case I was saying chatgris' alt is in Nisuwa and Notoras. You should rejoin FW and go hunt it down. Practice what you preach and all that.



I don't need to join to chase alts.

Tell me, what plexes are being taken within 5 jumps of your character right now?


what? and save you the 5 minutes required to answer that yourself?



Yeah right.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#153 - 2013-03-13 22:14:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


what? and save you the 5 minutes required to answer that yourself?



Yeah right.



I think im seeing the issue here.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Directional_Scanner_guide

Problem solved, you are welcome.
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#154 - 2013-03-13 22:16:32 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I don't need to join to chase alts.
Then go chase his alt while you aren't in FW. Practice what you preach. Location: Nisuwa and Notoras. Put chatgris on your watch list so you know when he logs on. Have at it.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#155 - 2013-03-13 22:16:34 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:

Well, I don't really have any experience outside of the US TZ except for a few weekend all nighters - though the 24 hr kills show quite a bit of activity.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills24

FW low sec is the most active pvp region in all of Eve right now.


Perhaps that is true. Eve is a notoriously slow game to find pvp. Where did you get that data anyway?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#156 - 2013-03-13 22:25:18 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Perhaps that is true. Eve is a notoriously slow game to find pvp. Where did you get that data anyway?
Just compare the Caldari vs Gallente map with any other region in the game (except the Minmatar vs Amarr one, it's a bit busier).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#157 - 2013-03-13 22:26:28 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


what? and save you the 5 minutes required to answer that yourself?



Yeah right.



I think im seeing the issue here.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Directional_Scanner_guide

Problem solved, you are welcome.


I already know how to use dscan.

I don't recall for sure but I thought I might have seen you in nisuwa. Just using that as an example, there are about 25 systems within 5 jumps of that system. You cant identify who is running plexes in all those systems, in 5 minutes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#158 - 2013-03-13 22:42:12 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
i think you missed out the important bit about using alts to flip there own systems there mate


and ofc flip flopping was caused by the cash out system it wasnt happening before was it?



No I didn't. It rarely happened and when it did it proved to be foolish to do that. People do stupid things all the time in eve that doesn't mean we need to change the mechanics so they don't continue to do them.


At this moment i have more state pro LP than fedef LP from flipping gallente systems to caldari in a shell corp. Also, it worked out perfectly well, enabling us to start stacking up vuln caldari systems for a tier push well before they would otherwise have been available.

Does it take effort to be wrong on nearly every topic or is it a talent?



You would know. We weren't even talking about plexing to bring a system vulnerable. We were talking about flipping systems that were already vulnerable. Doh!



What? The state LP i have IS from bunker busting hubs in a small cap fleet. Perhaps if you slowed down you posting the quality would improve? It worked out well. Things were set to do this on a much larger scale to get a good start moving forwards but the ninja patch removed any need for this.

Also, one look at both of your toons killboard shows that you have always been terrible at finding pvp. One look at your forum posts show you probably always will be.



You are right I misread your post. How many bunkers did you bust and who did you bust them with?

And really there is no point in bringing up killboards again. Yes I can whore killmails by gate camping in sensor boosted ships like you do, but that is not my bag. You don't think my killboard is impressive either - I agree. So what? No one really cares.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#159 - 2013-03-13 22:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
chatgris wrote:
Cearain wrote:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills

Vast majority are white systems showing zero or only 1 kill. Just a few systems that seem hot.


Well, I don't really have any experience outside of the US TZ except for a few weekend all nighters - though the 24 hr kills show quite a bit of activity.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Caldari_VS_Gallente#kills24



Yes I agree with you and xg that is a fair amount of kills even outside the systems with a high sec gate. Gate camping a high sec gate is not really fw related.

I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system. Thats not really what I consider good but it definitely seems a large improvement from the pre-inferno days. Preinferno I would occassionally roam for 2 hours and not get a fight.

Perhaps I just had some bad luck and I admit I am not as familiar with the caldari gallente front, as I am with the amarr minmatar front.

Edit: seeing as there is an average of 1,000 jumps into these systems per 24 hours, 24 kills per day is fairly weak. Pretty safe "war zone" IMO. Get about 4xs what we have then I would say its doing well.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#160 - 2013-03-13 23:33:42 UTC
Cearain wrote:

I would put the average at about 1 kill per hour per system.


This is an issue with your analysis - right now, there's not enough people in FW to really populate all the systems. So activity is centered around a few systems, and no-one but farmers really care about the other systems.

The people who want pvp hang around one of the hot spots and they get a lot of it. They don't go to the unpopulated areas.

Since you said you didn't know the gal/cal zone much, off the top of my head some hotspots are:

Tama
Nisuwa + 1 jump
Nenna + 1 jump except for Immuri
Vlillier + 1 jump
Eha
Okagaiken in the German TZ, dead otherwise
Heyd