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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
Elke Skralingur
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1721 - 2012-12-21 22:03:15 UTC
Sarah Valdez wrote:
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:
I'd like to give an additional thumbs down to the new AI. I began playing Eve after more than a decade of playing other MMOS. The appeal was the casual pace, low twitch reflex, ability to do laundry and multitask chores atop belt ratting or the like. I always felt I wad making isk or progress even when feeding the baby, surfing the web or composing emails.

Ten years into the game and the new AI is introduced to make PVE more challenging and similar to other MMOs. This was surely in good intent, but grievously misguided.

- Changing the fundamental PVE mechanics this far into the games lifespan will not attract new players, perhaps will scintillate some existing players, but in all practicality is just pissing people off. We're 'working' harder for the same isk but at greater risk. This isn't the game to which I subscribed.

- You should have created more challenging pve through added content, rather than screwing up a fairly stable (albeit predictable) set of missions, anomalies and plexes. Or you could have politely directed people to wormholes if they wanted harder pve. If I desired to fight sleeper AI, I would be in a wormhole now rather than typing this. If creating new content was "too time consuming", you might want to rethink that position after the manhours you are about to spend 'fixing' missions, drone aggro and pve.

- You have made a pig's ear of the AI changes. None of these complexes, anoms or missions were designed to this standard of rat behaviour, and are thus screwed up. The drone targeting code is borked. By the time you have sorted this mess out, and it is a mess, you could have created dozens of new missions andanoms. Instead you 'fixed' a casual pve system which few felt was broken and with no real upside.

- In case you missed the memo, PVE in Eve works by your ship doing generous damage to ships of roughly equal size. This is what the weapons systems are optimized for. Smaller targets are problematic, thus we have drones. Now drones are getting savaged, so we're spending countless minutes and hours watching large weapon systems lob countless volleys of expensive ammo to kill elite frigates which have you scrammed or webbed. How is this fun again?

- Complexes which operate on waves if mass dps are deeply imbalanced.

- it's Sunday here and I'd normally be looking forward to a long day's Eve time. Instead I'm feeling disinterested. Like last night I needed to change a diaper, but wad scrambled by a belt rat of all things. It took ages, baby was screaming and I felt like just canceling then and there. I felt that the game was playing me, it me it.

So from my perspective you've missed the pulse of your customers on this one by introducing a change few, if any, wanted and it's turning out badly. Will you be brave enough to admit your mistake? Or will you insist on presuming what is best for your player base?


+1, nothing to add.


+1

First and last post to these forums. Yes, this is an alt. Congratulations, CCP, on several more nails in the coffin of PvE. You realize if you continue far enough in this direction, you will have to start seeding minerals and salvage on the market, don't you?

There is a subtle but crucial difference between making PvE content interesting and simply punishing those who enjoy it.

That is all.
Hardwick Johnson
Ouroboric Absolution
The Commonwealth.
#1722 - 2012-12-22 04:27:26 UTC
Scaugh wrote:


*snip*

And NO NO NO NO the thread "If you got a job offer from CCP" is not important enough to have 13 (so far) dev comments in it. While this feedback thread is been ignored.



Yeah, that really p!ssed me off too.... Shows where their main attention and interest are and it's not here.
Maybe we need to get some hookers and booze in here, see if that will draw them out and encourage some more replies....

What's 6 inches long, 2 inches wide and drives CCP crazy?
The hundred dollar bill I'm no longer putting into this game subscription.

BTW: Thanks for the carbon "present", a real FU&STFU "gift" if I ever saw one. Shocked
So tempted to tell you where to shove it and make me a diamond.... Twisted
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1723 - 2012-12-22 08:34:32 UTC
Just attempted another level V in carrier.

Used Sentries, Small /mediums and fighters. all deployed without aggroing anything first.


Lost 1 sentry, 5 docked in low armor structure. (Recalled/deployed drones 5 times, they start taking damage before i can lock with carrer not agressing anything. Capital reps change nothing on threat.)

Lost 1 Hammerhead killing 2 scramble frigs.(capital reps active on drones) Someone said larger drones dont take as much aggro from frigates. Ok buddy.

Docked 2 fighters in low armor after attacking structure 43km out. Capital reps didnt change much but im not going to leave a fighter outside the carrier for long with half room primarying it just to see how that works.

All of this micromanagement is also while watching local and Dscanning every few seconds. Postponed completion of mission because its bul1shit.


Yes i've tried ewar pre patch with this same result except losing 2 fighters.


Is this supposed to be more fun? I had no issue with being bored before expansion in level 5's Now its like trying to circumsize a shrimp.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1724 - 2012-12-22 09:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:
Just attempted another level V in carrier.

Used Sentries, Small /mediums and fighters. all deployed without aggroing anything first.


Lost 1 sentry, 5 docked in low armor structure. (Recalled/deployed drones 5 times, they start taking damage before i can lock with carrer not agressing anything. Capital reps change nothing on threat.)

Lost 1 Hammerhead killing 2 scramble frigs.(capital reps active on drones) Someone said larger drones dont take as much aggro from frigates. Ok buddy.

Docked 2 fighters in low armor after attacking structure 43km out. Capital reps didnt change much but im not going to leave a fighter outside the carrier for long with half room primarying it just to see how that works.

All of this micromanagement is also while watching local and Dscanning every few seconds. Postponed completion of mission because its bul1shit.


Yes i've tried ewar pre patch with this same result except losing 2 fighters.


Is this supposed to be more fun? I had no issue with being bored before expansion in level 5's Now its like trying to circumsize a shrimp.



I totally agree with you.

Another of those sweeping "one size fits all" changes made against any common sense, making low and null sec ISK grinding even more of a (dangerous) chore.
Sahjahn
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#1725 - 2012-12-22 09:21:45 UTC
Well I've had some interesting things in level 5s since the patch.

The first 5 level 5s I ran after the patch I got 0 agro. Now i don't mean my drones got 0 agro I mean I got 0 agro, literally nothing other than sentry towers agro'd for the entire mission.

Since then i've been getting agro as expected so dunno what that was all about.

My drones however, well fighters and sentries are still getting agro from frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers which according to the patch notes shouldn't be happening. So apart from the first few broken missions it appears to me nothing has changed at all, or at least level 5 mission rats are completely ignoring the new rules.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1726 - 2012-12-22 10:22:32 UTC
Sahjahn wrote:
Well I've had some interesting things in level 5s since the patch.

The first 5 level 5s I ran after the patch I got 0 agro. Now i don't mean my drones got 0 agro I mean I got 0 agro, literally nothing other than sentry towers agro'd for the entire mission.

Since then i've been getting agro as expected so dunno what that was all about.

My drones however, well fighters and sentries are still getting agro from frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers which according to the patch notes shouldn't be happening. So apart from the first few broken missions it appears to me nothing has changed at all, or at least level 5 mission rats are completely ignoring the new rules.


Imo they discovered the 0 aggro (at all) bug, that also affects L4 missions and stealth-reversed the mini patch and now we are back to the "aggro everything" AI again.
Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
#1727 - 2012-12-22 10:41:03 UTC
Hello,
I am qute disappointed by that patch-Series.

First of all. The tracking disrupters make it impossible to fly a projectile, lazor or hybrid ship solo in a 0.0 site.
After patch on 4th (i think) you have beed perma tracking disrupted. After last patch the disruption was no longer permanent by the same ship, They now let it run out, yeah, but If there are 2 or 3 of these little buggers, they just cycle that disruption which results in perma-disruption again. That sucks!

I am also not able to fly in my gallente ships anymore. So funny the aggro of my drones has been increased during the patches. Now if I put my sentries out, the npc switch aggro immediatly and I have to pull the drones in again.
It does not help that frigs target small drones and above, cruiser medium drones and above and bs the above drones, since my sentries are above and therefor get aggro of all ships and that very often.

Well, I could try to fly my drake in a site, but my missle range is 1/3 less then it was before and the damage got weeken aswell. And since my damage output therefore is quite low, I am not able to fly there sucessful, because I ahve to fly out quite often due to not enough tank.

CCP, if you want to make me happy, you should ignore sending gifts (which were great, I have to admit) but put the changes into the trash barrel and give me my ability to fly a site back.

Oh and to the new great t1 logistics. Why the hell did I train T2 Logistics? They are worthless now. Thanks!
Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
#1728 - 2012-12-22 10:44:55 UTC
Norjia Blacksteel wrote:
Another player for removing the non-scan on the blockade runners.

+1
Now you cant even fly around in an empty one without fear of getting hit by a tornado. Oh btw great improvement on these one hit wonders which kill you instantly if they want to.
Jasmin Fox
Keeper of the Black Star
#1729 - 2012-12-22 10:57:37 UTC
Oh and while I am at it..

can you please include numerous checkmarks in the options to remove these new sounds?
I hear tik tik.. you cap runs low
tik tik your agression timer vs 0.0 rats runs out and all fine after that again. The problem with these sounds? It takes you quite some time to realise why it is is doing that tik tik. You have no direct visial why it is doing these sounds. And who cares if the counter runs out. You will just seeing the symbol disappear. Thats really enough!

WTH, The symbols are great. But the sounds are just awefull. The beep beep shield is about to fail and beep beep armor is about to fail and beep beep beeeeeeep you are in a pod now were just enough.

Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1730 - 2012-12-22 11:05:21 UTC
Yeah have to agree on the TD's being pretty brutal.

I tried a mach and carrier combo to finish a lvl 5 i posted about several posts up page. I was thinking it would be ridiculously lazy to do a V in this and not a big issue to complete. I just really don't like having that much hardware that is attractive to pies on Dscan. The 57 km range of the mach's AC's was dropped to 6km for 5 minutes without shooting(carrier reps on mach the whole time). Eventually warped out because of people i didnt like in system but its not like I was actually making any headway at all on completion.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1731 - 2012-12-22 11:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Isengrimus wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:


Take a close look at the second paragraph though maybe CCP needs either change or remove that seeing as Retribution has made PVE crazy hard and with Bounties on all are heads we need PVE in ships set up for PVP even in high sec. Hard to choose PVE over PVP when PVP is being rammed down your throat..



Cry me a river.
I tried to ram PVP into some carebear's throat on a belt with my bomber. He didn't even manage to lock me when I had to run due to the belt rats (Battleship-sized all) aggro.

PVE may be harder (as in - it takes longer to grind) but - at least in nullsec - is much safer than before. Solo hunting is gone. Primarily with bombers, but basically any PVP ship trying to fight both the ratter and the rats on the anomaly or the belt will melt because it's fit for PVP, not the onslaught of the rats. So contrary to what you are saying, it actually seems we need to fit all PVP ships for PVE. If that was CCP's idea to increase usefullness of active tank ships in PVP then it failed.

And yeah, I heard CCP doesn't care much about bombers being useless. So basically the idea is to make both the carebear and carebear-hunters equally unhappy, right?



Yup, CCP killed the solo PvP.
And one another thing, Safety system ? A big picture for noobs,, don't log off because u should be die ???
If a pilot do a mistake, should take the consequences. This is helping PvP somebody ??? Pardon, but this is a bullsh*t.
What is will be next ? The ship will be jump safe to safe automaticaly, because the noobs cant do that without help of client?
This help for those pilots who did a mistake and trying to logg off with aggrotimer, it's a fail. This changes just more close the door before PvP pilots.
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#1732 - 2012-12-22 12:41:12 UTC
Hardwick Johnson wrote:


BTW: Thanks for the carbon "present", a real FU&STFU "gift" if I ever saw one. Shocked
So tempted to tell you where to shove it and make me a diamond.... Twisted


Sansha Claus approves of this message.
Kara Balveda
Space-Time Laboratories
#1733 - 2012-12-22 15:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Balveda
So far, I am happy about this expansion. The few things that were serious issues have been fixed already, or I am sure they will be fixed. It would be nice if you hurried a bit about the sound that is played whenever I aggress an NPC and whenever one pops, as that is highly annoying during missions with many frigate NPCs.

One thing though really sours this expansion for me. I didn't train the Armor Resistance Phasing skill when it came out, so as not to get into cap issues, as it used to only shorten the cycle time of the module. Then there was a dev blog about changes to skills and modules, and sensible changes were done to the Afterburner skill, which now shortens cycle time by 5% and lowers cap usage by 10%, so you can finally train it to V without having just too long cycle times. When I read in that dev blog that Armor Resistance Phasing had also been fixed regarding the cap issues, I put this skill into my skill queue.

Then, after EFT had also been updated, I realized that my mission fits were no longer cap stable. When I looked for the reason, I found that each level of Armor Resistance Phasing, while shortening the cycle time by 10%, only lowers cap usage by 5%. This leads to higher cap usage for every level of the skill trained. I am now very unhappy that I have trained this skill at all and ruined my armor tanked mission fits by this.

Are you going to fix this, by lowering cap usage by 10% as well, so the module will use the same cap regardless of the level trained? Or is there a way how I can at least get the skill points removed from that skill, so it goes back to level 0 and therefore to the lowest cap usage possible for the module? Because as it is right now, you really are worse off for every level you have trained.
Pleasure Bound
Futanari on Safari
#1734 - 2012-12-23 02:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pleasure Bound
Here's my feedback; I'm going to wait till my subscription is out but unless you "fix"/undo the so called AI changes to the mission NPCs, I won't be resubbing.

In short, dull, boring, and pointless is not the way to go. If your goal was to lower the mission income by 10%, you should have done just that. What you've done instead is a game breaker for a lot of players for the following reasons:

- new players who would fly destroyers/cruisers/logistics/miners/battlecruisers in level 4 missions are currently prime targets for the NPCs (new eve players/corp members can no longer "help" or coop in missions)

- ninja salvagers are now targets of opportunity for the mission NPCs (you've killed solo griefing/pvp in high sec)

- lowsec roaming solo PvPers are now targets of opportunity for the belt NPCs (you've killed solo PVP in low sec)

- salvaging alts are now targets of NPCs (you've killed coop PvE in high/low sec)

- I loved min-maxing boats in EFT. I would mission for ISK so that I could build different boats, with deepspace mods. Well, you've just removed a lot of ship options for me; I'll be selling both the navy domi, as well as the rattler). It seems that right now, missile boats are the way to go. Case and point, after loosing 7 sentries in Worlds Collide, I'm warping back in a Navy Scorpion.

As of the patch, playing a high sec mission/exploration/industry carebear is an exercise in frustration and futilty. Since I play online games to escape reality and have fun, I'll have to say good bye and cancel my 2 accounts. I hope this was what the developers wanted to achieve with the changes.

Yes, this is an alt, and it is my first and last post on here. My "Mains" have a total of about 80 mil SP and have been subbed on/off since 2007.
Bill Henry Cosby
The Lollercaust
#1735 - 2012-12-23 04:23:41 UTC
Just had a mission cruiser pop 2 light webifier (Warrior SW-300) drones and attempt to shoot down a Hobgoblin II. Awesome... guess the agro scaling isn't really working either.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1736 - 2012-12-23 11:21:15 UTC
CCP - CAP sound to be removed! ALL ships comfortably sit in the 30% zone... the max recharge zone

NPC agrro sound has to go away - it is also disturbing

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1737 - 2012-12-23 11:27:33 UTC
a partial solution to killing small NPCs

some ships have turret slots, which are often unused. Fit small autocannons there, they use no cap but help tear apart stupid tackling interceptors.

I used to have 2x 200mm autocannons on my Raven with some success.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Rocket D'ni
x Infected x
#1738 - 2012-12-23 13:02:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rocket D'ni
Opertone wrote:
a partial solution to killing small NPCs

some ships have turret slots, which are often unused. Fit small autocannons there, they use no cap but help tear apart stupid tackling interceptors.

I used to have 2x 200mm autocannons on my Raven with some success.


Its a good idea in theory, but with the ai changes now the Utility slots on my raven and my buddy's are used for RR. And we use missiles because we're tracking disrupted to hell in V's.
Necroromantic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1739 - 2012-12-27 13:32:13 UTC
ccp focuses on the eve universe - a ccp announcement
reported by CCP Manifest | 2011.10.19 13:24:38
At CCP we have been working hard to expand the gaming landscape by applying the knowledge and expertise we've built up with EVE Online to create a new experience within the EVE Universe in DUST 514, as well as a new video game franchise in World of Darkness.

During the last few months, as evidenced by our interaction with the community, we made some missteps on that journey.

As we reexamine our outward relations, we are also taking time to reevaluate our internal goals. In doing so, we have come to the conclusion that we are attempting too many things for a company our size. Developing EVE expansions, DUST 514 and World of Darkness has stretched our resources too thin.

Rather than allowing this to persist, we have made the decision to sharpen our focus. Sadly, this means reducing our staff. We estimate that around twenty percent of global positions will be affected by this process. These will be predominantly in our Atlanta, GA office, although select positions in our Reykjavik, Iceland office will be affected.

We are very sad to lose some of our talented and dedicated colleagues to this necessary process. Naturally we are making every effort within our means to help them find alternative employment. Decisions like these are difficult for all those involved and extraordinarily sad for all of those whose lives are affected.

Following this reorganization, we must do a better job by focusing on these priorities:



For the immediate future, our mission is to enrich the vast EVE Universe by strengthening the continuous development of EVE Online while preparing to bring DUST 514 to market on the PS3. We do this in order to realize our ambitious and challenging plan of joining the two in a cross-platform, truly massive online world.
World of Darkness will continue development with a significantly reduced team. This team will continue to iterate and expand on the gameplay and systems they have designed. We will also redeploy creative teams in Atlanta to support the launch of DUST 514.


This will enable us to accelerate timeframes for new features and increase our ability to respond to community needs. The fruits of this realignment will be seen as early as this winter with the upcoming EVE Online expansions and the launch of DUST 514 private trials.

We understand how an announcement such as this can be perceived by our community and industry peers. We feel it is important to clearly address two questions that might arise.

First, EVE Online is in good health. Our subscriber numbers are higher today than they were a year ago. Unlike many other MMO's on the market, we have continued to grow year-on-year since launch in 2003. However, over the past two months, our subscribers have gone down from their peak this summer. We attribute this to our own mistakes and poor communications with our players. We are correcting that now.

Second, World of Darkness lives on. Its concepts are revolutionary. CCP continues to believe that it will alter the landscape of the MMO as significantly as EVE has done but we need more time to continue to develop them before dedicating the substantial resources required to bring this experience to market.

As an innovator in the industry, CCP has never shied away from tough decisions, remaining agile to allow for shifts in production, technology and gaming trends since even before the launch of EVE Online. While our decision to refocus is a solemn one, it will benefit our players through a renewed commitment to the EVE Universe and its fans.

-Please keep discussion about this announcement in the following EVE forum thread. Thank you for your understanding that this day, and the days in the near future, will be very hard on the individuals at CCP. Sincerely, CCP Manifest




The Full Announcement..

Quick see if you can spot the grammer and spelling mistakes b4 someone else does.. i left them just for you!! :)

Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1740 - 2012-12-27 14:04:00 UTC
Rocket D'ni wrote:
Opertone wrote:
a partial solution to killing small NPCs

some ships have turret slots, which are often unused. Fit small autocannons there, they use no cap but help tear apart stupid tackling interceptors.

I used to have 2x 200mm autocannons on my Raven with some success.


Its a good idea in theory, but with the ai changes now the Utility slots on my raven and my buddy's are used for RR. And we use missiles because we're tracking disrupted to hell in V's.


When i did lvl4's few years ago my ravens utility slots were filled with 2 x NOS. I doubt if those frig rats can even be killed with 2 x small unbonused autocannon.. Certainly not elite ones.. Anyways those pesky autocannons makes it fail as w/o 2x NOS fitted will raven cap out pretty fast unless hes using low dps cap stable fit...