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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1701 - 2012-12-19 11:27:36 UTC
Quote:

-Issues where Factional Warfare militia NPCs were attacking friendly or abandoned drones have been resolved. Militia NPCs will now always aggress according to their militia relation or if they have bad standings toward the particular militia factions.

-NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.

-The safety level setting is now persisted on the server per character and will be restored when logging on.

-An issue that caused the Station services UI and the Directional scanner to not load properly if the Directional Scanner window was open during docking has been resolved.


THANK YOU FOR 1.07 :D
Mika Takahoshi
Doomheim
#1702 - 2012-12-19 11:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mika Takahoshi
The new AI is fine, it just exposes the underlying reality that drones are ridiculously fragile. Now NPCs can laugh at drones the same way PvPers do. The one difference is that NPCs seem to have a knack for coordinating their fire on your drones to pop them quickly from time to time, whereas in PvP it's usually just the player being targeted popping your drones, rather than a coordinated attack from the six elite frigates the bloody acceleration gate dropped you in the middle of. Recall your drones when they get aggro? Sure. Of course, unless you're testing this with weak belt rats, in a real L4 one or two drones are guaranteed to be popped as they fly straight back to you. Now you can redeploy them, sure, but you just lost 20-40% of your anti-frigate DPS.

I see they've made a change in today's patch, but it would appear that the only enemies I worry about and need light drones to combat are still full of drone hate.

That's okay, it just makes Caldari missile boats more competitive in PvE. They needed to balance things more in that direction, right? Roll
Steijn
Quay Industries
#1703 - 2012-12-19 11:37:40 UTC
I hope Santa brings CCP a new Calendar for Xmas.
Norjia Blacksteel
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
#1704 - 2012-12-19 13:39:18 UTC
Another player for removing the non-scan on the blockade runners.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#1705 - 2012-12-19 15:40:17 UTC
Okay, seriously, we need more granular control over the sound effects. Some of them are really getting on my nerves.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1706 - 2012-12-19 21:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Freighdee Katt
Mika Takahoshi wrote:
The new AI is fine, it just exposes the underlying reality that drones are ridiculously fragile. Now NPCs can laugh at drones the same way PvPers do. The one difference is that NPCs seem to have a knack for coordinating their fire on your drones to pop them quickly from time to time, whereas in PvP it's usually just the player being targeted popping your drones, rather than a coordinated attack from the six elite frigates the bloody acceleration gate dropped you in the middle of. Recall your drones when they get aggro? Sure. Of course, unless you're testing this with weak belt rats, in a real L4 one or two drones are guaranteed to be popped as they fly straight back to you. Now you can redeploy them, sure, but you just lost 20-40% of your anti-frigate DPS.

I see they've made a change in today's patch, but it would appear that the only enemies I worry about and need light drones to combat are still full of drone hate.

That's okay, it just makes Caldari missile boats more competitive in PvE. They needed to balance things more in that direction, right? Roll

It's been said before, but the simple answer to this is: NPC's don't shoot drones, full stop. When the day comes that NPCs can shoot the turrets off gunboats and the launchers off missile boats, leaving you webbed and scrammed by a swarm of elite frigates, with no way to get out and no way to fight back, then maybe the drone hate will make some sense. Until that day comes, drones should stand on an equal footing with other primary weapon systems, which means NPCs can kill your ship, but they can't just kill the one part of it that you need to use in order to kill them.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?

Emily Natalios
CFB Training Corp
#1707 - 2012-12-19 22:48:25 UTC
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:
I'd like to give an additional thumbs down to the new AI. I began playing Eve after more than a decade of playing other MMOS. The appeal was the casual pace, low twitch reflex, ability to do laundry and multitask chores atop belt ratting or the like. I always felt I wad making isk or progress even when feeding the baby, surfing the web or composing emails.

Ten years into the game and the new AI is introduced to make PVE more challenging and similar to other MMOs. This was surely in good intent, but grievously misguided.

- Changing the fundamental PVE mechanics this far into the games lifespan will not attract new players, perhaps will scintillate some existing players, but in all practicality is just pissing people off. We're 'working' harder for the same isk but at greater risk. This isn't the game to which I subscribed.

- You should have created more challenging pve through added content, rather than screwing up a fairly stable (albeit predictable) set of missions, anomalies and plexes. Or you could have politely directed people to wormholes if they wanted harder pve. If I desired to fight sleeper AI, I would be in a wormhole now rather than typing this. If creating new content was "too time consuming", you might want to rethink that position after the manhours you are about to spend 'fixing' missions, drone aggro and pve.

- You have made a pig's ear of the AI changes. None of these complexes, anoms or missions were designed to this standard of rat behaviour, and are thus screwed up. The drone targeting code is borked. By the time you have sorted this mess out, and it is a mess, you could have created dozens of new missions andanoms. Instead you 'fixed' a casual pve system which few felt was broken and with no real upside.

- In case you missed the memo, PVE in Eve works by your ship doing generous damage to ships of roughly equal size. This is what the weapons systems are optimized for. Smaller targets are problematic, thus we have drones. Now drones are getting savaged, so we're spending countless minutes and hours watching large weapon systems lob countless volleys of expensive ammo to kill elite frigates which have you scrammed or webbed. How is this fun again?

- Complexes which operate on waves if mass dps are deeply imbalanced.

- it's Sunday here and I'd normally be looking forward to a long day's Eve time. Instead I'm feeling disinterested. Like last night I needed to change a diaper, but wad scrambled by a belt rat of all things. It took ages, baby was screaming and I felt like just canceling then and there. I felt that the game was playing me, it me it.

So from my perspective you've missed the pulse of your customers on this one by introducing a change few, if any, wanted and it's turning out badly. Will you be brave enough to admit your mistake? Or will you insist on presuming what is best for your player base?


This. This. And more this. CCP went full ****** on this change to PVE AI. You never go full ******.
Paul Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1708 - 2012-12-20 00:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Miromme
I have to agree with Tazarak. Roll

I am nearly at 12 months with my main. I'm at 15 & 1/2 mill SP.

I found the worst thing was the NERF on H Missiles. I am being kited @ 50/60km by some BS now.... how much time is that in time to firing range with a bloody Drake? (Yes i know get a BS with prop..) I actually put a prop on my Drake due to this.

The thing i think this has to do with is the perceived Inflation formula peeps like to talking about.
"Infaltion is entirely within CCP's control." & "All of it" Don't forget "They are like Gods", "They oversee the cash flow", these are things i think . The system is built with RL dynamics @ heart & they see were the isk goes. They could buy some guys warez and offset that inflation it's not like they publish the cost it takes to run Concord across the four known realms or the costs of each Realms governments, Military budgets, R&D etc. And then expect it to be funded from the funds the various empires accrued from Taxes hence...

When people talk about inflation in Eve they forget that the isk only goes so far into the world they see. IE- Is concord held back by a lack of isk in its capability? Are the NPC Corps actually doing the best with the money they earn? ( if any do in a RL sense for application of resources & change tactic to get that resource to help said Company) The money that isn't there to cover Bounties could be made up by CCP on the belief that the respective government has iskies from some Black ops -Top Secret fund... etc.

The thing that all this makes me think is that some accountant said that the PLEX revenue was good & needed to be boosted to avoid CCP having a hard time in the Global Uncertainty. This would stop the Ha4rd Core Eve Backbone 24/7 players who add a lot to the Universe that is Eve from having a way to spend their time earning time getting isk to use on PLEX (Thus helping the Galaxy & build Eve) Wis was the way not some bloody emo Vamire BS RPG thing. (Scrap that CCP grab the assets ((models and such)) get them ready for Eve Online : RL incarnate. Pirate

PS- I'm sorry to add the following. I asked a friends kid about whether he was playing Dust 514., he said his friend was (on his system) but he felt it was a bit.. slow.. . TBH i thought it looked slow & low frame rate looking at the youtube vids (Official inc) Get that beast on the PC for goods sake & use Unreal as the Engine for now.... for now 'Is Good Enough'' upgrade later if you need to.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#1709 - 2012-12-20 03:22:23 UTC
Mika Takahoshi wrote:

I see they've made a change in today's patch, but it would appear that the only enemies I worry about and need light drones to combat are still full of drone hate.


This. This with the missile nerf that brings drakes/tengu's inline with all other lvl4 mission running ships that aren't exactly known for their ability to kill a frigate orbiting under 4k. Just brilliant.

Also,

I've said it before, and i'll say it again, the new 'persistent' inventory windows are still NOT persistent when using any array at a tower, they always open up ontop of the previously opened array, and ALWAYS open on the 1st division, NOT the last previously used division (which is what we used to have, and how it was functioning for a bit on Bucky) This is occuring with the in-station corp 'office' hanger window. It never remembers which division i last used. Again, this was actually 'persistent' while it was on Bucky if memory serves.

Related to this, the station inventories are not remembering which window i used last (items) and still still tries to open straight into my ships cargohold every dock.

I'm am plain done giving feedback, as all my effort to do so seems to go un appreciated as devs skip over it in favor for the posts that ask about the button that already exists that users haven't found yet, or just making dumb 'for fun' comments.

CCP;

Please stop taking away functionality and hoping we don't notice, then ignore us when we do. Good luck with your next expansion, as unless you really start to show that my effort to give you honest feedback is worth the effort, i will not be giving you any help. Its a shame, since in a way i am paying your apparently overinflated salary that adds to your sense of smarter-than-users attitude.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

Nobani
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#1710 - 2012-12-20 09:22:19 UTC
Dear CCP:

I think I said something positive, or at least not entirely negative about the new rat UI a couple of pages back. After running the 8/10 I'd like to take that back. After getting losing 5 T2 sentries (mostly to alpha) before giving up on the last room I'd like to take that back.

The new changes suck.

N.B. Drone Durability 4 Ishtar, so they had almost double the standard HP. I was running a medium NOS and small remote rep off and on, with no apparent effect.

Thanks,
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1711 - 2012-12-20 13:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Nobani wrote:
Dear CCP:

I think I said something positive, or at least not entirely negative about the new rat UI a couple of pages back. After running the 8/10 I'd like to take that back. After getting losing 5 T2 sentries (mostly to alpha) before giving up on the last room I'd like to take that back.

The new changes suck.

N.B. Drone Durability 4 Ishtar, so they had almost double the standard HP. I was running a medium NOS and small remote rep off and on, with no apparent effect.

Thanks,



And you dont forget from unbalanced NPC EW things. They do same like a pvp pilot ? Bullsh*t. NPC frigates uses EW from 100km distances ??? Very balanced.
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1712 - 2012-12-20 13:46:26 UTC
First I'd like to say that Retribution has been an awesome expansion! Well done CCP!!

But I do have two requests:

Before Retribution I could get the camera to center on scan probes by single clicking on the probe status text. Now I have to double click. Please change the behavior back to single clicking (the probe status text is a little buggy, so getting double clicks to work is more problematic than single clicking).

I like the music that plays in different systems, but like most users I've turned it off. Unfortunately the intro music for Retribution (at the log in screen) is tied to the music volume (prior to Retribution it was not). I'd like to hear the intro music (it kinda gets me in the mood to melt face) so would you uncouple the in game music volume from the intro music volume?

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...

Arch Convivitor
Tempest Freelancers
#1713 - 2012-12-21 01:47:02 UTC
With Retribution, logging out/ logging back in on the Mac is much better and more stable.
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1714 - 2012-12-21 10:34:00 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Keep all posts civil and on topic, please. I've had to remove a few.



Here is a novel idea...Idea
Instead of just removing posts, made in frustration at the lack of CCP input in the last 50 pages. Ugh
Why don't you try replying to your communityQuestionQuestionQuestion

CCP your attitude towards communicating with us is contemptible at best..Twisted

To assume we are all social whores who cant pull ourselves away from twitter is nuts.. we pay the money and you are suppose to provide a product and support... another fail..Evil

Its a good job CCP don't make toys... my kids would be p***ed if I gave them toys that were broken, hard to enjoy or just simply irritating (instead of fun) this close to Christmas and refused to fix them or to even tell them why...Shocked

Ok so as organisational communication is another part of Eve that is broken maybe try this...

1. lock this thread
2. read the points made
3. reply to each point raised
Seems so simple even a Dev should be able to understand the concept........ but then i have always been an optimist Blink
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1715 - 2012-12-21 11:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Panhead4411 wrote:
I'm am plain done giving feedback, as all my effort to do so seems to go un appreciated as devs skip over it in favor for the posts that ask about the button that already exists that users haven't found yet, or just making dumb 'for fun' comments.

CCP;

Please stop taking away functionality and hoping we don't notice, then ignore us when we do. Good luck with your next expansion, as unless you really start to show that my effort to give you honest feedback is worth the effort, i will not be giving you any help. Its a shame, since in a way i am paying your apparently overinflated salary that adds to your sense of smarter-than-users attitude.



I reached this way of thinking after the Unified inventory disaster. Up to, and including that point, I had been giving feedback regularly over “features” that were introduced on the test server. Over the years most of this was ignored or a bland, meaningless acknowledgement was made with little no subsequent changes to CCP’s master plan. Even as the frustration level increased over time, I still battled on as I really wanted to try and help them make our game better.

But, there is only so much of it you can take. The constant superior and condescending attitude of some of the Devs (not all) and the blatant refusal to correct fundamental flaws in their cunning plan wore me down to the point that I will never again give any feedback on the test server. There really is no point, it is a complete waste of time. Instead I now just leave them get on with it, as they will do whatever they want anyway regardless of whatever anyone says.

I feel your pain.
Isengrimus
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#1716 - 2012-12-21 12:09:28 UTC
Wigster Atild wrote:


Take a close look at the second paragraph though maybe CCP needs either change or remove that seeing as Retribution has made PVE crazy hard and with Bounties on all are heads we need PVE in ships set up for PVP even in high sec. Hard to choose PVE over PVP when PVP is being rammed down your throat..



Cry me a river.
I tried to ram PVP into some carebear's throat on a belt with my bomber. He didn't even manage to lock me when I had to run due to the belt rats (Battleship-sized all) aggro.

PVE may be harder (as in - it takes longer to grind) but - at least in nullsec - is much safer than before. Solo hunting is gone. Primarily with bombers, but basically any PVP ship trying to fight both the ratter and the rats on the anomaly or the belt will melt because it's fit for PVP, not the onslaught of the rats. So contrary to what you are saying, it actually seems we need to fit all PVP ships for PVE. If that was CCP's idea to increase usefullness of active tank ships in PVP then it failed.

And yeah, I heard CCP doesn't care much about bombers being useless. So basically the idea is to make both the carebear and carebear-hunters equally unhappy, right?
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1717 - 2012-12-21 12:16:48 UTC
Isengrimus wrote:
And yeah, I heard CCP doesn't care much about bombers being useless. So basically the idea is to make both the carebear and carebear-hunters equally unhappy, right?


You could always use bombers for, ummmm...... bombing :)
Scaugh
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#1718 - 2012-12-21 14:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaugh
Wigster Atild wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
Keep all posts civil and on topic, please. I've had to remove a few.



Here is a novel idea...Idea
Instead of just removing posts, made in frustration at the lack of CCP input in the last 50 pages. Ugh
Why don't you try replying to your communityQuestionQuestionQuestion

CCP your attitude towards communicating with us is contemptible at best..Twisted

To assume we are all social whores who cant pull ourselves away from twitter is nuts.. we pay the money and you are suppose to provide a product and support... another fail..Evil

Its a good job CCP don't make toys... my kids would be p***ed if I gave them toys that were broken, hard to enjoy or just simply irritating (instead of fun) this close to Christmas and refused to fix them or to even tell them why...Shocked

Ok so as organisational communication is another part of Eve that is broken maybe try this...

1. lock this thread
2. read the points made
3. reply to each point raised
Seems so simple even a Dev should be able to understand the concept........ but then i have always been an optimist Blink


Lunchbreak RANT below:

CCP don't seem to realise that the EvE forums are the only method of correspdonace used by the majority of the EvE community. These twitter twits seem to think twitter is a valid method of communitcation in my honest opinion is just pure laziness on thier behalf. Devs and GM seem to deem thier posts in threads like "If you got a job offer from CCP" as important to post this thread, rather than actual game mechanics and the FUBAR relases they keep forcing down our throats.

And NO NO NO NO the thread "If you got a job offer from CCP" is not important enough to have 13 (so far) dev comments in it. While this feedback thread is been ignored.
Alexander Renoir
Covenant Trading Agency
#1719 - 2012-12-21 20:11:12 UTC
The current and new bounty system has a lot of improvement potential.

The first point is the list for most wanted (char/ corporation/ alliance) and successful hunter. Why is this list limited to ten entries?
Solution: It should show more than ten entries.

Second point: Why is there absolute NO regulation or limitation for bounties? I mean there are a lot of grievers in EVE. CCP know this fact. This is why CCP does not allow to spend bounties on CCP’s staff and volunteers.
The current situation is now that too many players have a senseless bounty on their head from some one who was bored or is just an idiot and wants to annoy other players!
This leads to the misleading situation that the current most successful bounty hunters are just simple gankers who killed some one with a (lol) bounty.
Furthermore there are a lot of helping peoples who left your help channels because of the fact, that some one spends always a bounty on them if they see them in this channel!

Solution:
Enable a break against grievers who just wants to annoy other people. It should not be possible again to spend a bounty on characters with positive security rating (similar to the restriction from CCP to not spend bounties on CCP). The bounty pool is under control of CONCORD. THE POLICE IN EVE. Why should the police allow to spend bounties on chars which does NEVER EVER something wrong? You get now bounties from some one who you never ever had contact with.

Or..
Make it so that a char has just a few possibilities to spend bounties. Some one with more then ten enemies in EVE has other problems in game and RL and do not deserves to spend bounty on every char he has seen in the local / help channel.

I know that a bounty does not enable killrights or something other. THIS is also not the point here.
The question to CCP is: Why do you implement the current mechanic NOW and not years back, as you have started with EVE? Perhaps you know that it is just made for grievers! I like the ide of the partially payment of bounties. But not that all players in EVE have a bounty.. without ANY reason or association to the man who spend the bounty.

So.. and now I am waiting for your bounties folks.* irony Sad
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1720 - 2012-12-21 20:12:27 UTC
Are you folks aware of "teen repellent" ??? It consists of playing high frequency sounds that young teenage ears can still hear and find quite annoying. Some establishments that cater to an older clientelle will utilize this technique.

I think CCP has adopted the teen repellent approach to the new sound library. This can only be good for the game, right ?