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Aggroing of drones with new NPC AI....

Author
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#81 - 2012-12-05 00:13:07 UTC
Sarcastic : This must all be lies because I distinctly read 'they tested it and only lost two drones doing a lot of L4s' Roll

For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#82 - 2012-12-05 00:15:50 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.

I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
#83 - 2012-12-05 00:15:51 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Sarcastic : This must all be lies because I distinctly read 'they tested it and only lost two drones doing a lot of L4s' Roll

For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive.



or you could just turn the garden at your home into a petting zoo using the family pets for some happy snapz to raise some money to buy lots of PLEX like CCP want us mission runners to do.
starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
#84 - 2012-12-05 00:18:00 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.

I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP.



maybe CCP should just be banning people like you instead of nerfing the rest of the mission running community who actually dont go afk during missions Roll
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#85 - 2012-12-05 00:21:05 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
maybe CCP should just be banning people like you instead of nerfing the rest of the mission running community who actually dont go afk during missions Roll


I didn't do it for very long. Was just one of many experiments during years of mission running.

Only mentioned it to demonstrate it was possible. I'm sure there's lots of people out there who abused it.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#86 - 2012-12-05 00:24:28 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.

I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP.



maybe CCP should just be banning people like you instead of nerfing the rest of the mission running community who actually dont go afk during missions Roll

Only those that use drones Cool

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

HydroSan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-12-05 00:25:53 UTC
All that SP in drones wasted. Can I get it back?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-12-05 00:27:32 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.

I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP.

Yet thin punishes those who took manual control of their drones as well. I've only ever used the aggressive setting on my drones while under Ewar that prevented targeting while doing PvE. I'm used to having direct control and I'm sure I won't loose many drones in my drone-centric ships, but I'll likely have heavy's be much less viable and loose considerable DPS due to frequent recalls. Will have to see how well Ewar works.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#89 - 2012-12-05 00:27:46 UTC
HydroSan wrote:
All that SP in drones wasted. Can I get it back?

No. You can still use your drones just fine, only they will be instantly popped. Working as intended.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#90 - 2012-12-05 00:32:04 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I'm used to having direct control

Assuming direct control. (Your drone may still be instapopped)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#91 - 2012-12-05 00:49:51 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
LOL wormhole dwellers say hello


That was even more clever than the other 2 people that said it before you.



how sweet
Kagumichan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-12-05 00:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagumichan
Louis deGuerre wrote:
For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive.


No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus. All the other ships have to either run dual-reps and suffer the cap loss (pretty much any armour tank ship), run an ASB with a normal booster and hope the charges last longer than the enemy can shoot, or fit loooooong range guns and use the new micro jump drive to get far enough away to be able to shoot at stuff without being hit by ewar.... but that only works if you're not warp jammed, which you will be most of the time with the new AI, and your drones won't get them off you now to use the MJD, since they'll be insta-popped the moment they poke their heads out the drone bay. Roll

Oh... or you could remove all those nice damage mods and fill your entire mid/low slots with nothing but tank so you can hold together with 1 repper, and then wait 10 bajillion years for your unmodded guns to slowly eat away at the tank of the ship that's... oh wait, sleeper AI also reps more often now too. Nevermind!
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#93 - 2012-12-05 01:06:14 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus.


Dual armor reppers, with the mid slots full of cap chargers, make lots of battleships into L4 running machines. I have a Hyperion with a ridiculous tank.

I used shields starting out, and The Mael was even my first L4 battleship, but as soon as i trained up armor tanking i never looked back. Shields are more suited for PvP because they can absorb lots of damage fast, but are harder to get stable, which doesn't really matter so much if everyone is dead before cap runs out.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#94 - 2012-12-05 01:13:31 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
Louis deGuerre wrote:
For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive.


No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus.


I stopped doing missions when their ISK/hour stopped being worth doing for me, so I might be a bit rusty.

I recall using a "Baby Vargur" AC 800mm fitted Maelstrom and with it I could kill rat frigs very well as long as they were 15+ km away. However that took a lot of tracking enchancers and high SP.

I think this patch will mostly impact on newbies. We did not want those new players anyway.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#95 - 2012-12-05 02:10:08 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Ocih wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Just another example of cart before the horse. Drones weren't designed to take full aggro and they are the only way to really kill frigates in a level 4 mission.

When I did these missions in the nightmare I never needed the drones and that was with tachyons.


If you get them all before they close on you. Many level 4's they plant you on top of the spawns but I suppose you just insta popped the 90% resist frigates at 2200 meters with your uber leet skillz



He's telling jokes, not only this would be impossible even with a blaster fit and web but even less with a Nightmare, mwahaha nice joke however. Or maybe that was back in 1589 DC? -whatever

I blow up fighters orbiting my megathron with blasters. For the close range missions just swap to pulse.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-12-05 02:23:30 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


Solo'ing L4's is easy, and has been for many years.

HAC, T3, BS, BC can all do it at varying degrees of speed and/or efficiency.
the only reason to run L4's as a group is for the lols as a corp 'something to do' endevour



Group PvE content is Level 5's, Incursions and C4+ Wormhole Sites
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2012-12-05 02:24:35 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.

Solo'ing L4's is easy, and has been for many years.

HAC, T3, BS, BC can all do it at varying degrees of speed and/or efficiency.
the only reason to run L4's as a group is for the lols as a corp 'something to do' endevour

Group PvE content is Level 5's, Incursions and C4+ Wormhole Sites

Sounds like CCP has a lot of work ahead of them, then...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Rengerel en Distel
#98 - 2012-12-05 02:34:10 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities.


More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.

I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP.


They actually wanted to nerf this, but actually buffed it by making repping draw more aggro than the drones themselves. So afk RR-sentry boats got a boost, everyone else has more to deal with.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-12-05 02:40:19 UTC
I"m seeing a lot of the "just adapt because :wormholes:" argument being tossed around, and it's really the laziest troll to employ for people who are seriously concerned about the drone situation.

The logic of this implies that anything that should be suffered in one part of the game should be suffered elsewhere without consideration for the different roles that Somewhere A and Somewhere B have in the game. It also utterly disregards the disparity in the basket of benefits available from Somewhere A and Somewhere B. Now, if the challenges of A should be just like B, then either the rewards should also be identical, or one area--either A or B--is unnecessary.

More importantly, we're talking about a weapons system that is, at least on several ships, intended to be its primary weapon system. Now, drones already suffer the disadvantage that they are destructible at all. The only other primary weapon with this disadvantage (to a lesser extent) is missiles, which can take damage from well-timed smartbombs or defender missiles. The issue at hand, of course, is that the degree to which the weakness of this primary weapon system is now being exploited by the NPC AI renders it useless for its intended function. I imagine if every NPC were given smartbombs that automatically destroyed all incoming missiles, the rage would be overwhelming.

The disdain for those who are concerned about their primary weapon being nerfed all to hell stems entirely from the fact that the weapon system in question only excels in one major use: lazy-mode missioning. It's not the fastest, most efficient ISK / hour way to mission, but it's certainly one of the least stressful. Some people play games to de-stress--you know, relax. Maybe you aren't one of them. Lots of things in the game are designed for you; drones probably aren't one of them.

Personally, I'd really like to see a dev respond to this matter. It seems to me from the reports here that the new AI is not performing as advertised. Having read the features on CCP's page for Retribution, I noticed that the dev said he lost 2 drones over 9 L4 missions in his testing. Now, with that being the bar, I'd say that even if it were functioning as advertised, that's still a dramatic nerf. A competent droneship pilot might lose 2 drones in a hundred missions (on a bad sample of 100). If any other weapon saw a nerf by a factor of more than 10, the outrage from the turret-monkeys would be even louder.

Anyone care to have a serious conversation about this problem?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#100 - 2012-12-05 02:51:33 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work.


What's the weapon bonus for an Arbirtrator? What's the weapon bonus for a Myrmidon?

If I'm in a ship that gives no bonuses to any weapon except for my drones then I damn well expect my drones to do all the work, TYVM.

When I'm flying a Myrmidon with Battlecruisers 5 & Drone Durability 4 and watching my Navy Drones - the toughest drones they make - die between the first hit and the two seconds of lag in a recall order to get them to actually start moving then as far as I'm concerned my career as a drone commander is over. El finito.

And yes I am watching my drones. I'm not one of those people who think of them as "ammunition." I pay good money for them and want them to survive and it's not working. I've always watched my drones. Until today that has worked. I paid attention, managed them as fast as I could click and it worked. It was challenging but it could be done. I had lost all of maybe two drones in the last six months. Today I lost one in the first wave of the first mission I took. Two shots, gone. They didn't even reach the target.

What am I supposed to do? Switch to using nothing but generic T1s so that I can actually keep turning a profit on missions? Or do I just have to retrain myself into being yet another cookie-cutter Drake/Tengu pilot like half the population of EvE?

I'm not being irrational here. If CCP wants to keep this harder AI then fine, but they need to give us something back as compensation. They need to buff drone hitpoints in a big way, and add some more speed too unless they want to see all the drone boats growing cobwebs in a few months.


http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0