EVE General Discussion

Ask a Wall Street Tycoon about runaway dellation...oh wait.

Do you really think miners can be ganked to extinction?

You really give your fellow [edit: mining] capsuleers a lot of credit!

So, much like the gankers then?

You know I'd think CCP would want miners being ganked as it makes the mining bot problem less significant, it helps to keep the profession's income up, it helps the economy, and it provides amusement to people who patiently must wait a year or two for CCP to fix the part of the game they live in. I'm to lazy to look up the quote for moronic npc alts but I remember somewhere a CCP guy saying that it was currently too difficult to differentiate between an actual miner and a bot so I'll leave this screenshot here as an example of the state of this problem.

http://imgur.com/DbL17

For those that have trouble understanding, look at what is typed and look at what the search box suggests, I'm surprised it is so high in the suggestions.

Revert mining ship EHP buffs (except for the procuror and skiff).

You want to know why CCP buffed mining barges?

For the lulz my friend, for the lulz.

And you sound like you have no clue at all that the hulks are still flying at max yield around eve. Makes me wonder if you ever were a ganker. Maybe only a fair weather ganker. Just like every one else in eve you only look in the 4 or 5 systems around you and say all of eve is like this because it is so where I live. Get out of your tree stand and open your eyes.

Wait lets whine to CCP maybe they will fix it so hulks fly around in my system again so I can gank them.
I have none zero sympathy for you.

Let me start by stating that this is all the opinion of a part-time lulz-ganker based on observation of the past year's "progress" in the development of both Eve Online's community, as well as the game itself. Since I am not a miner, no doubt many will chime in with the proverbial "Nuh uh!" They are free to do so, of course, but I feel this reaction will be at the cost of their own enjoyment of Eve Online at a minimum, and possibly even their own enlightenment.

Let's start with my premise: Every system responds to pressure. This is true in video games, nature, even in your pressure cooker. Deer herds are a good example of systems responding to various pressures. Deer have finite natural resources with which to survive, in much the same way that Eve Online has finite resources. Some may say the resources are infinite, but that is only taken over an eternity. Eve's resources are clearly finite, even if renewable. The same can be said of the acorns and plant material upon which deer feed.

Let's look more closely at what happens to deer populations in response to certain pressures, shall we?

When a population of deer is actively hunted (be it by man or by beast), the overall health and happiness of the herd actually improves. This seems counter-intuitive! Surely some hunter out shooting deer for lulz (or food, doesn't matter) can't benefit the overall well-being of the herd...but he does. The reason is obvious: Killing one deer has negligible impact on the demand placed on resources required by the herd, but those resources are shared between fewer deer. This means the population is happier, save for the trophy-mounted (or stew-kettle-consigned) victim.

However, when a population of deer is allowed to range free from predation, they multiply faster. This has little change on the overall demand for natural resources, but the resources available for each individual are less. This means that the herd's health suffers when they are not hunted; both from malnutrition and from disease. This is because deer have no mechanism for controlling the size of their own herd. All they do is react to the environment around them and try to survive as well as possible.

Now let's look at how this counterintuitive fact might apply to Eve.

When a population of miners is actively hunted (be it by null-sec pilots, low-sec pirates, or high-sec mercenaries), the overall wealth and happiness of the mining community actually improves. This is because the demand for ships continues to be mostly unaffected by the minute loss of one pilot. But with that pilot's loss of resolve, more ore is available for less people to mine. This means miners are happier, save for the killboard-pasted victim.

However, when a population of miners is allowed to mine free from ganks, they multiply faster. This has little change on the overall demand for ships and modules, but the resources available for each miner are less. Consequently, miners make less ISK for the same effort. This is because miners as a group refuse to use the mechanism designed for controlling the size of their, erm, herd. All they do is react to the environment around them with cries of, "Nef gankers!" and, "Buff mining!"

The similarities between these two systems are actually quite astonishing.

It is my belief that this is an example of the "negative pressure" at work in any system involving gatherers and predators. It appears to an "outsider" (or to those who don't or won't think critically) that hunting/ganking is a "big deal" but in fact the overabundance of gatherers exerts far more pressure on the system than the hunters/gankers do. This creates a system where the results are predictably counterintuitive: In order to help the gatherers be happier as a group, it is absolutely necessary to lower their overall threshold for individual survival. In game terms, this would mean that the only way to actually "BUFF MINING!" is to nerf it. Conversely, the only way to nerf mining is to buff it.

We will see in the next year if this is an accurate appraisal of the current situation. I sincerely hope that tritanium doesn't fall below 3 ISK like I think it will. Further, I hope that ice doesn't become so worthless that managing a network of a few dozen large POS is trivial. I can potentially see the day coming when the overall health of Eve ssuffers if CCP doesn't stop pandering to our gatherer-class. In terms of long-term health of the system, it may be much more viable to support the culling of that population routinely rather than capitulate to their ill-conceived cries about "fairness" in a video game where they deliberately choose to be the deer and complain that the wolves' teeth and claws are too sharp and penetrate their dainty skin (hulls!?!) too easily.

TL;DR: I'm pretty sure that there's only one way to keep miners happy for an extended period of time in Eve. Counter-intuitively, that is to nerf mining rather than buff it.

So many miners in this thread gloating that the gankers can no longer kill them

I hope they come back to gloat in a few months when they have pushed trit prices through the floor

why don't you and your buddies stop whining and bring out a destroyer fleet? can you seriously not get 5 or 6 goons in destroyers together to do some ganking of miners? can a 6k man alliance not put together 250 destroyer alts? have the goons been neutered by a simple EHP buff? is that all it took to turn you guys into whiny babies? where the **** is your emergent gameplay?