EVE General Discussion

This person, Pipa Porto, told me that the upcomming crimewatch changes will "break" can flipping and I'm curious as to how. Can anyone explain it? I couldn't get an answer from Pipa. Here is the quote from another thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1796952#post1796952

If anything, I would think it fixes can flipping. No longer can people steal your can with potentially zero risk, even if they are picking on brand new characters.

Thank you CCP for bringing more risk/reward into the game.

Thats a load of crock. Can flippers are after easy kills plain and simple.

If the victim of the flip falls for the trap then how many times does he come out on top? If the victim manages to kill 1/10 flippers he is pretty good. I say again, the flipper is hoping for an easy kill. If flipping cans would kill the flipper 9/10 instead of the other way around I kind of doubt people would be flipping very much at all.

lol thanks for the laugh

They were talking about changing how aggression and such works and they wanted to remove target specific shoot rights to make it more clear who you can shoot and what consequences that will have. This would mean that can flipping would mark you as a criminal and anyone would be able to shoot you, not just the owners corp.

What they are after and what they get are too entirely different things. I have spelled out a bunch of advantages in the victims favor, it is up to them to use those advantages to win.


They would not flip if the victim won and since they have the advantage they can win.


CCP is actively cracking down on people who target newer players who do not understand the games mechanics yet. That is in CCP's definition of griefing now.

A more skilled and informed player could return in a proper ship and use the advantages I spelled out to get an almost sure kill. CCP just have to make sure Newbies have the protection they need, with that it is very easy for a smart victim to turn the tables.

If you came back in a Vexor today do you think you would have lost that fight?


When you stop laughing reread it then use all those tips to your advantage.

This is the Target can flippers look for. I was still in a NPC corp. Still learning the game. So I had no corp mates to turn to. TBH I detest canflippers even more than I detest Gankers. At least Gankers prey on characters that should know the game a bit better.

TBH I too detest can flippers for entirely the same reason as you but opposite circumstances.

I went out canflipping in a mix Logi / Combat Arbitrator when I was new with a friend I met. He wanted to kill things in an Itty and I helped him take out a Retty with my Reps but his Corp Mate attacked me with a Tyrannis, my first T2 Ship Kill. So later I decided to do it on my own and after 20 or so systems I got a bite from a Cruiser in my now full combat fit Arbitrator. It went down fast and then he came in hauler still aggressed so I smashed that too. Looking at the mails he was a newbie so I convo'd the guy and paid him back for his troubles, apologized and tried to explain how I did it so it wouldn't happen again. I still feel bad to about it to this day, worse that it was a starter system (I did not know the rules about that at the time and found out later.)

I think I killed a Dessy as well, after that I was done with can tipping. I realized mostly new players bit the bait and there weren't any fun fights like I read about on C&P. I tried killing flippers using a bait Mining Vexor with 3 T1 show Drones and Duel Webs, it worked remarkably well.

I don't like how can flipping works but think they should find a rework to the system that gives fun fights instead. I do like their fleet aggression idea as a replacement for dropping a can for PvP. I do stand by my post that flippers are very easy to kill for a knowledgeable player. The trick with that would be removing newbie flak. Not that I would ever can tip again personally, it just isn't a fun way to get fights.

People have to stop mixing up things. Can flipping is one of the few ways to attack newbies in high sec without getting concorded but that doesn't mean that can flipping as a mechanic is "broken" or "without risk".

If you can flip a whole mining corps with players who've been in the game for years and have lots of SP, ships and (hopefully) experience to counter it then it becomes a tad different. The game mechanics DO favour the defender, they can choose to attack... or not, they can choose to attack with multiple pilots in their corp... or not. That's also where the real profit is in can flipping; Older pilots coming back in shiny ships and then get killed/ransomed. a "proper" can flipper doesn't care about your retriever or Itty 5, he cares about the bling stuff you come back in or your corp mates in their CNRs.

There's a few reasons why can flipping will be messed up with the new system:

- instead of being aggressed to the corp you just can flipped you'll be aggressed to everyone. Apart from the fact that it's silly it also takes away for the need in mining corps to have their own defences (and an allround corp) because "someone else" can take care of problem. The simple fact of being aggressed to everyone makes it an uncontrolled scenario that severely favours the defenders, and before ppl go "bawww", controlling the scenario happens everywhere in pvp.

- because CCP is unable to code it properly (or unwilling to put the time into it as they "don't see the need", as they're carebears themselves) you end up with only one aggression timer. As it is now you can be aggressed to the whole corp for 5 minutes while still being aggressed to the guy that attacked you for another 10, giving you a window of opportunity. Removing that (or thinking it's wrong., like CCP seems to do) means you cater for the dumb people, the lazy carebears and is mostly about being too lazy to code it properly.


Can flipping (relative) newbies is a bit sad but that doesn't mean that as a mechanic it's broken or needs changing, it really does favour the defender (assuming the defender has the SP and playtime to be able to create a proper reaction). Thing is ofcourse that many miners CHOOSE to stay clueless and unprepared even after years of playing, and CCP should never cater for that mindset.

If you get flipped you have a choice, if you don't want to get can flipped you also have a choice. If you choose to AND use jetcans AND attack the ones who stole a bit of ore from you THEN you might get in trouble if you CHOOSE to not be prepared. So yes, it does favour the defender.

For the same reason people use scouts, alts and spies in 0.0 or anywhere else, to control the scenario. If you jump into low sec or 0.0 you can check local and know what you're up against, if you're in high sec with 100 ppl in local and you're aggressed to everyone that creates many unknowns when you decide to commit to a fight, especially as those potential 100 can choose the exact timing of entering the scenario, and I'm not even going to mention the fcking ret@rdo idea of having some of the defending logistics NOT be aggressed in certain situations.