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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New Mechanics and NPC's

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2012-06-04 19:52:26 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ok; where to start?....

Whoa! That rant was aimed at me?

You said: "..this should help a bit until we get into a proper iteration of this for this winter"
I said: "Like pissing oneself to keep warm."

Pretty much exact same thing just different phrasing .. even used a very PC and widely used phrase.

Screw this, I am out. It is your game to ruin as you see fit .. I'll just see if I can find some other little corner of your Themepark (there, I said it) to have my candyfloss/popcorn (after first selling it to and stealing it back from some newb).

PS: If that post is considered ranting .. oh boy are you lot in for a rough ride when you click on any link on these forums.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#82 - 2012-06-04 20:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
chatgris wrote:
Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing.

You can potentially "fix" defensive plexing by manipulating the timer. Insert a rule such as:
Plex Timer Rate for Defensive Plex = min(1, Max Ship Class in Plex/(Actual Ship Clas in Plex)), ship class for plex defined by requirements to get into plex.

Unrestricted: BS = 8
Level 3: BC, HAC, etc... = 4
Level 2: Cruiser, AF, etc.. =2
Level 1: Destroyer, Frigate = 1

Examples Timer Rates:
One T1 frigs in Major Plex = 8x
8 T1 frigs in Major Plex = 1x
16 T1 frigs in Unrestricted Plex = 1x

If an afk defensive plexer wants to cap a major unrestricted with a T1 frigate, then it will take him 8x as long as it would currently.

Defensive plexing issue solved. (Bring the right ship for the job dammit!)

We're done. Time to move on to next issue. Big smile


/thread (<---- Never works)
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-06-04 20:19:20 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing.

You can potentially "fix" defensive plexing by manipulating the timer. Insert a rule such as:
Plex Timer Rate for Defensive Plex = min(1, Max Ship Class in Plex/(Actual Ship Clas in Plex)), ship class for plex defined by requirements to get into plex.

Unrestricted: BS = 8
Level 3: BC, HAC, etc... = 4
Level 2: Cruiser, AF, etc.. =2
Level 1: Destroyer, Frigate = 1

Examples Timer Rates:
One T1 frigs in Major Plex = 8x
8 T1 frigs in Major Plex = 1x
16 T1 frigs in Unrestricted Plex = 1x

If an afk defensive plexer wants to cap a major unrestricted with a T1 frigate, then it will take him 8x as long as it would currently.

Defensive plexing issue solved. (Bring the right ship for the job dammit!)

We're done. Time to move on to next issue. Big smile


/thread (<---- Never works)



So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk??????

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#84 - 2012-06-04 20:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
BolsterBomb wrote:


So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk??????

No, you run minors with your frigs, mediums with your T1 cruisers, majors with your T1 BC, and unrestricted plexes with your BS.

If you want to stay in one ship, then run the same level plex in several different systems.

Just like when you offensive plex (assuming requirement to kill all NPCs was implemented).

/thread. Big smile
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-06-04 20:31:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:


So if I go defensive plex by myself I get penalized even though I am not afk??????

No, you run minors with your frigs, mediums with your T1 cruisers, majors with your T1 BC, and unrestricted plexes with your BS.

If you want to stay in one ship, then run the same level plex in several different systems.

Just like when you offensive plex (assuming requirement to kill all NPCs was implemented).

/thread. Big smile



So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.

Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint

Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#86 - 2012-06-04 20:37:52 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.

Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint

Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem

Huh? You're defensive plexing. You own the system. Whatever logistics issues you may have pale in comparison to the entities that are offensive plexing the same system. Unless of course you have flipped a non station system deep within enemy territory (in which case you're going to lose it soon anyways).
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-06-04 20:41:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
So now I have to go and travel x amount of jumps reship and go back to that said system if I am focusing my efforts on that system.

Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint

Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem

Huh? You're defensive plexing. You own the system. Whatever logistics issues you may have pale in comparison to the entities that are offensive plexing the same system. Unless of course you have flipped a non station system deep within enemy territory (in which case you're going to lose it soon anyways).







I read this wrong, it sounded as if you wanted this for OFFENSIVE plexing.

I dunno if you're going to do this then just make it so only certain ship types can enter period.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#88 - 2012-06-04 20:45:09 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

I read this wrong, it sounded as if you wanted this for OFFENSIVE plexing.
I dunno if you're going to do this then just make it so only certain ship types can enter period.

FOOM suggested this once a long time ago, but you would lose out on potential diversity in fights.

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#89 - 2012-06-04 21:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.

there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#90 - 2012-06-04 21:23:55 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:

Believe it or not (Dopified wont) some of us who plex actually plex in certain systems for a specific reason...hint hint hint

Im hoping you can read in between the lines : ie station lock out / travel / reship / problem


So what are you implying Bolster? I have am having troubles seeing what you are trying to say about me. Just the Moron in me I guess. Maybe this

1. I dont plex?
="Dopified" victoryPoints="122654" But where are you on the list? Oh wait your not. But i do plex for a reason not to just decontest systems.

2. Because i am just carebearing?
Dopified http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=672815
BolsterBomb http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=530431

My killboard is not impressive compared to most

Bolster when you where in XMETA your source of income was your pos's and planetary interaction which allowed you to fuel your pos's. When these got nerf you rage quit eve because your source of income was being crapped on. It was no longer as lucrative to make isk off of what you had set up and not destroy your standings with your other toons that have high SP so you quit. Now that it is in the works to change the NPC's in plexing so that it is not easy for brand new alts to run the plexes your source of income is being threatened again. You dont want you standings on your main toons to be hit by crashing them in militia so it is easy to have a no SP toon to tank the best plexes LP/HR. You have complained about standing before and wanted to be in militia. So this is threatening your source of income and you are no happy about it so you post against most players and CCP. THIS IS THE SAME AS BEFORE. This is why i posted what i did I CALL IT AS I SEE IT.

Bolster back in the day I brought you into XMETA when no other gallente corp would want to look at you. I advised Froz that you where a good guy. After doing so I took a ton of flack for bringing you in. People wanted you gone from militia so that you would not join thier fleets. I cannot tell you how many people private convoed me sent messages and told this to me on comms. They complained about Failed intel when scouting or just being annoying. I can tell you this you really know how to CRAP on people who have been good to you or just nice. Well i can say you just added another person to you long list of people who dislike you now.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#91 - 2012-06-04 21:28:58 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.

there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.


I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. Roll
Dynast
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#92 - 2012-06-04 22:00:51 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:

Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.
Gallente afk plexing alts can plex as nearly effectively as caldari alts except it requires a few more skill points and 5 million isk instead of 50k isk per loss. (self repping incursus)

"Kill all rats" solution would lead to drone boats being used in plexes for "afk" plexing. Maybe Caldari boats with f.o.f missiles (?? don't know mechanics of f.o.f)

The difference would be that you would need to bring ships which are capable of applying dps for the appropriate sized plex. No more condors or incursuses solo'ing majors, but perhaps an "afk" imicus soloing minors.

This is a realistic goal, IMO.

This would be a reasonable solution.. have the button stop at 30 seconds or something as long as there are NPCs remaining. (and for the love of god make sure the NPCs are coded like belt rats, to burn back to the button when they're dragged off past a couple hundred K, so people can't make enemy alts and bug out the plexes, there's enough of that going on already).
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#93 - 2012-06-04 22:13:07 UTC
Dopified wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.

there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.


I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. Roll


They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity.

A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage.

But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-06-04 22:20:27 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Screw this, I am out.


Can I have your stuff?
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#95 - 2012-06-04 22:25:49 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Dopified wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.

there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.


I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. Roll


They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity.

A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage.

But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.


Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage.

And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms. Ugh
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#96 - 2012-06-04 22:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Dopified wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points.


Very true we can run plexes in t1 frigs. But you neglect to mention that we can not do this in Major plexes and in med this can not be done afk unless you fully fit out a dual rep cap stable frig and only in med plexes. Again no pvp. If you can please put forward the Ship and Fit with instruction on how to orbit. I would like to see explanation and evidence instead of half truths and misleading information. Someone saying you can run caldari plexes in t1 frig easy does not mean ALL the plexes only the minors.

Gallente Minor- T1 frig afk YES
Gallente Med- T1 frig afk YES
Gallente Major- T1 frig afk YES

Caldari Minor- T1 frig Afk Repper cap stable YES
Caldari Med- T1 frig Afk Reppers and Cap stable fitted for plexing only YES
Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL NO

Again i have given evidence above. This is why the Gallente are losing the battle for systems


You seem to forget to notice the Gal Incursus guys lately running every plex type. You guys already whined and got ECM nerfed while we still have to deal with being perma damped much of the time, now you want them easier?

Hey I have an idea.. fly the proper ship to do the plexes and kill the NPC's..


As far as "numbers" in each Militia, you know just as well as anyone that that is a bunch of BS. There has always been crap tons of guys in Caldari Militia that have nothing to do with fighting and only join Militia NPC corp to farm high sec missions or FW missions because of no taxes.

You are really going to whine about Gal having lower numbers when yesterday I was in Nenn there was over 40 of you docked, I went to Enal and there was a gang of 15 or so and another 5 to 10 guys spread between system like Akadgi, Hikk.. That's not even counting any guys in Hey, Nis, Villi or Rak.

Active pilots are what count and now that Caldari is finally starting to get "close" to having same active numbers you already start whining that you can't compete because i't's no longer easy to just out blob us?
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#97 - 2012-06-04 22:32:46 UTC
Mutnin wrote:

You seem to forget to notice the Gal Incursus guys lately running every plex type. You guys already whined and got ECM nerfed while we still have to deal with being perma damped much of the time, now you want them easier?

Hey I have an idea.. fly the proper ship to do the plexes and kill the NPC's..


As far as "numbers" in each Militia, you know just as well as anyone that that is a bunch of BS. There has always been crap tons of guys in Caldari Militia that have nothing to do with fighting and only join Militia NPC corp to farm high sec missions or FW missions because of no taxes.

You are really going to whine about Gal having lower numbers when yesterday I was in Nenn there was over 40 of you docked, I went to Enal and there was a gang of 15 or so and another 5 to 10 guys spread between system like Akadgi, Hikk.. That's not even counting any guys in Hey, Nis, Villi or Rak.

Active pilots are what count and now that Caldari is finally starting to get "close" to having same active numbers you already start whining that you can't compete because i't's no longer easy to just out blob us?


Funny we ask for the Damage on the rats to be even, not give us an advantage and yet we are accused of crying so it makes things easier for us? Oh wait we are wanting it to be even. Again another caldari who does not want to give up his advantageRoll
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#98 - 2012-06-04 22:34:11 UTC
Dopified wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Dopified wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
I do not really know what you guys are planning, but real problem is not the rats in plexes.

there is several bigger problems that needs to be solved before anyone can decide what kind of rats are in plexes.


I am finding it funny how caldari are the only ones who are resisting this topic and dont want it changed. Roll


They're still going to have by far the most useful rats (well, tied with Minmatar I guess, never ran against minnie rats) With the proposed changes a caldari guy can burn 30 off the rats in a caracal or drake, take no damage have no ewar and shoot with impunity.

A gallente guy will still have to deal with the incoming damage.

But the proposed changes are most definitely an improvement.


Let me ask you this Chat for a temporary fix. If all rats missile spammed like caldari rats do and you took the ewar away would this not be a good temporary fix until a long term solution could be found? EW NPC's removed or not who cares we are just talking about the incoming damage.

And yes i know and will say to CCP you would get even more grief for making the rats the same for all by being blamed Gallente bias. I would understand if you would not want to open that can of worms. Ugh



I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.

But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.

The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#99 - 2012-06-04 22:40:46 UTC
O how I heart FW. To think CCP was thinking about adding more drama to it. If only they new then what they can see now.

Only thing that really annoys me, is LP rewards for Kills. They only go to the people in the fleet of the final blow pilot. Outside off that, everything else is pretty much fine. Well NPC balance of course but that drums been banged so much it becomes pointless.

However if you could tweek the missions some, as in force them into ENEMY systems only please. Right now you can do an entire mission run for the Minmatar and never set foot in Amarr space. This is broken.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#100 - 2012-06-04 22:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
Cearain wrote:
I think the loss of target painters will help us against the minmatar rats as well.

But yeah for a "quick fix" ccp should just make everyone face the same exact rats - just pick one race.

The long term fix should be to do away with rats entirely and let the players actually fight in the plexes.


I agree with it but maybe think that we stay with each races damage type seperately. For some like gallente they can not tank Explosive very well and thinking of that for the other militia's as well but missile spamming for all will deal the damage. But that would be the only change maybe not the Same rats if you meant one specific damage type. If that is not what you meant then i aggree with one type of rat that has the damage dealt the same for that militia it is dealing too. But i would say we need some kind of resistence in the plexes for when some are not on.