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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New Mechanics and NPC's

First post
Author
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-04 17:33:39 UTC
chatgris wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.

Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.



Here I strongly disagree. AFK plexers are a problem, not a solution. I don't think the design mission of FW is "lets allow plexes to be taken AFK, cause we want a gameplay mechanic that requires alts and AFK play because plexing is boring".



I agree with your statement however as a game mechanic it also helps create balance. An act of retardation improves for the greater good. Example, in Amar. Lets say 90% of systems are minni owned. By farmers coming in and plexing it contest systems higher in greater numbers which allows the pvpers to finish the job. Its kind of like "its the end that matters not the way you get there"



Remember you can shoot them as weill.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Dopified
Black Eagle5
#62 - 2012-06-04 17:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
BolsterBomb wrote:
2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.

Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.

3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well. I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc


Bolster you have just proven what i am fighting for. Am i worried about the caldari farming lp NO. Lets say that if the caldari take all the gallente systems and we are now the losing faction could the gallente use afk plexing alts with ease as the caldari do to counter and start winning again. Absolutely not. You have just given us an explanation that is totally one sided. This is a catch 22 statement.

For further info take a look at the numbers caldari are outplexing by 200+ plexes a day more then anyone else. This is due to alt plexers that plex with no npc resistence and we as a militia try to kill them but they are to many and reship fast and are back out in seconds. We can not just spend all day chasing these guys. The ones that do stay and want to fight can because the npc's are a joke. My example of this is in my first post.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-06-04 17:46:04 UTC
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
2) Farmers are a VERY IMPORTANT part of this new patch. For example the amarrians have tons of plexe avalaible. They need plexers to go out and hit systems that are empty if plays an important part in the contestation of systems. If you change the game mechanic that all npcs must be killed the losing faction will not be able to fight back as easily.

Again the afk plexers are very very very important for a losing faction. It maintains balance.

3) I run majors when im going for LP in a malediction. Even going 5k a sec I still take dings. I know you can do the same in caldari plexes as well. The missions for gallente are always speed tanked with an inty. I haven't seen afk condors running around speed tanking majors. They do speed tank minors and mediums but the gallente can do that as well. I see zero problems with the current NPC mechanics. Each faction has different effects and each faction is smart enough to figure out how to counter it. We have to put sensor damps on our ships when we run missions, gallente usually use drones, etc


Bolster you have just proven what i am fighting for. Am i worried about the caldari farming lp NO. Lets say that if the caldari take all the gallente systems and we are now the losing faction could the gallente use afk plexing alts with ease as the caldari do to counter and start winning again. Absolutely not. You have just given us an explanation that is totally one sided. This is a catch 22 statement.

For further info take a look at the numbers caldari are outplexing by 200+ plexes a day more then anyone else. This is due to alt plexers that plex with no npc resistence and we as a militia try to kill them but they are to many and reship fast and are back out in seconds. We can not just spend all day chasing these guys. The ones that do stay and want to fight can because the npc's are a joke. My example of this is in my first post.


I understand it is not one sided and if Caldari take all the systems I would expect to see it on the flip side. My point is very simple. People will find a way to afk plex. I do not belive it really is afk plexing, you have to be there. I belive the more pressing reason caldari have more farmers is simply because of the location of jita (which you mentioned)

By having caldari alts it is easier to move lp into isk if you are caldari. You can do it as well for gallente but at this point the caldari have more systems to plex, the lp rewards are basically on the same level as gallente, and logistics is easier.

Once things flip Id expect to see more gallente alts.

Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#64 - 2012-06-04 17:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
BolsterBomb wrote:
Once things flip Id expect to see more gallente alts.


Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.

PS: I still think the afk alt farming is a BAD thing for a whole host of reasons, and I look forward to a "kill all rats to capture opposing plexes and get LP" mechanic. I don't mind it so much for defensive plexing since there is no LP reward, and therefore less incentive to afk farm. Additionally, I don't see any way to fix it for defensive (unlike offensive) plexing.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#65 - 2012-06-04 18:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
BolsterBomb wrote:

Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.


Bolster i see what you say but this only works when the NPC's are balanced and equally as hard for each side. Chatgris has pointed this out above.

But i also know you bolster we used to be corp mates and i know that you want to farm the lp and have a system to do so. I know you dont want that system to get harder so that you can keep farming the same way. Just as so many others wanted lp stores to stay the same because they had a system that gave them good income with the mission running. LP stores are much higher and thus you have to run 4 times as much to keep the same.

This post was about NPC's being equal and getting ride of the afk 1 week old plexing farmers that are clearly alts which we cannot compete with for system control. It is also about system control in which gallente and ammar are at a disadvantage. When one side can do something at ease in a war and the other cannot and the main fight of the war is affected as great as system lockouts ,that side will always win no matter what the other side with the disadvantage does.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-06-04 18:04:23 UTC
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:

Like I said I believe it is a balancing act that will switch as the tides turn.




But i also know you bolster we used to be corp mates and i know that you want to farm the lp and have a system to do so. I know you dont want that system to get harder so that you can keep farming the same way. Just as so many others wanted lp stores to stay the same because they had a system that gave them good income with the mission running. LP stores are much higher and thus you have to run 4 times as much to keep the same.




I read this then remembered you're an idiot

I stopped replying to idiots yesterday

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#67 - 2012-06-04 18:04:36 UTC
Dopified wrote:

1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion.


Sadly I agree with you.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#68 - 2012-06-04 18:06:53 UTC
chatgris wrote:

Except gallente alts cannot afk plex anywhere NEAR as effectively as caldari alts due to the difference in NPC mechanics.
Gallente afk plexing alts can plex as nearly effectively as caldari alts except it requires a few more skill points and 5 million isk instead of 50k isk per loss. (self repping incursus)

"Kill all rats" solution would lead to drone boats being used in plexes for "afk" plexing. Maybe Caldari boats with f.o.f missiles (?? don't know mechanics of f.o.f)

The difference would be that you would need to bring ships which are capable of applying dps for the appropriate sized plex. No more condors or incursuses solo'ing majors, but perhaps an "afk" imicus soloing minors.

This is a realistic goal, IMO.

Dopified
Black Eagle5
#69 - 2012-06-04 18:07:48 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:


I read this then remembered you're an idiot

I stopped replying to idiots yesterday


Bolster i call it as it is man you know that about me. This is about farming for caldari as much as it is system control with ease. I know Caldari do not want this advantage to change.
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#70 - 2012-06-04 18:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
Dopified wrote:

1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion.

Sadly I agree with you.


1. Ability to stay active in a given system with pvp'ers trumps all.
2. Lacking that, afk defensive plexing alts capping plexes when pvp'ers not active trumps offensive plexing fits (alts or mains with plex-specific fits).
3. Lacking afk defensive plexing alts and active pvp'ers, offensive plexers (alts or plex-specific fits) win.

So there you have it. Gallente will be onlining several afk defensive plexing alts in the next couple of weeks. Once this is done, the Caldari will have to earn their system captures the hard way - through pvp.

Edit: What I mean through pvp is that the pvp'ers in Gallente militia will be able to spend time pvp'ing Caldari in specific systems rather than spend time humping bunkers in backwater systems trying to keep up with the afk alt plexers.

Not a great way to play a game, but it's what is necessary to secure systems.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-06-04 18:15:00 UTC
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:


I read this then remembered you're an idiot

I stopped replying to idiots yesterday


Bolster i call it as it is man you know that about me. This is about farming for caldari as much as it is system control with ease. I know Caldari do not want this advantage to change.



No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama



Morons like yourself post stupid things in which you did. If you want a constructive conversation then I am willing but you sir are an idiot who is mad.





Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Deen Wispa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-06-04 18:17:56 UTC
It is a perversion of the game when a frig can tank a major and get the rewards but yet a BC cannot do so. I'm okay if a minor or a medium can be done with a frig but if you want the rewards of a major, then a BC hull needs to be fielded in order to do so.

Otherwise, all this does is keep FW PVP to frig fights and turns off the higher skilled pilots who want to slug it out with BC hulls and more advanced fleet comps. It really does feel like FW PVP has become a special olympics of sorts.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Dopified
Black Eagle5
#73 - 2012-06-04 18:33:17 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:


Morons like yourself post stupid things in which you did. If you want a constructive conversation then I am willing but you sir are an idiot who is mad.



You are absolutely right I am a MORON. Somehow this MORON was able to start a forum thread in which CCP is addressing as a problem and they have stated that. They have even posted in here which they have not posted in a vast majority of warefare and tactic's threads. But somehow this MORON was able to put up an arguement WITH EVIDENCE in which CCP and majority of people posting are agreeing is a problem. Yet after they posted this you argue against this. But i guess with me BEING A MORON i just don't understand the logic behind it. For now on bolster I will address myself as the IDIOT of FW.

Put everything aside bolster I enjoyed flying with you when you where in corp. I guess you dont have the same feelings about that as well to just blatantly call someone an IDIOT and MORON. Still think you WHERE a good guy when i flew with you. But posting that someone is a moron is a little extreme bolster.
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#74 - 2012-06-04 18:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
BolsterBomb wrote:


No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama
It's all about opportunity cost. Time spent securing backwater systems is time not spent defending front lines.

Caldari have been doing both - plexing front lines hard with pvp'er, and speed-tanking backwater systems with afk plexing alts.

Gallente interested in Occupancy Warfare have had to counter both with active mains. That is slowly changing. You'll see more resistance from Gallente in the near future as their home systems are threatened. Also afk defensive plexing alts will free up more pvp'ers interested in occupancy warfare to move to the front lines.

Plus there is little reason to defend non-home systems that hard. Who among you are really all that interested in spending time decontesting Immuri for no reward? I expect the non-station systems to flip back fairly quickly. Station systems will flip back pretty quickly too unless Caldari move into them in full force. We'll see what happens.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-06-04 19:17:40 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:


No we don't care. We are winning systems close to our homes not backwater systems where lp farmers target. You cant have afk plexers take systems such as Hikk, Hirri, Halanen, Tama, and Kedama
It's all about opportunity cost. Time spent securing backwater systems is time not spent defending front lines.

Caldari have been doing both - plexing front lines hard with pvp'er, and speed-tanking backwater systems with afk plexing alts.

Gallente interested in Occupancy Warfare have had to counter both with active mains. That is slowly changing. You'll see more resistance from Gallente in the near future as their home systems are threatened. Also afk defensive plexing alts will free up more pvp'ers interested in occupancy warfare to move to the front lines.

Plus there is little reason to defend non-home systems that hard. Who among you are really all that interested in spending time decontesting Immuri for no reward? I expect the non-station systems to flip back fairly quickly. Station systems will flip back pretty quickly too unless Caldari move into them in full force. We'll see what happens.



100% agree

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Dopified
Black Eagle5
#76 - 2012-06-04 19:19:10 UTC
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#77 - 2012-06-04 19:35:07 UTC
Dopified wrote:
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.




Do away with plex npcs entirely and let the militias know where plexes are being attacked. That way the players can fight for them instead of having the npcs play such a large role in who wins.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#78 - 2012-06-04 19:40:36 UTC
Dopified wrote:
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes. Maybe if we can actually give ccp some good thoughts or ideas it will help them with time and ideas on what to do, as some of you have. I am hoping that in doing so we can help cutting down the work for them and time in researching more then anything. They are listening to us so please give your ideas on what should be changed or kept when balancing the NPC's in FW.

This part of the forum is for ranting and raving, it is COAD for the non-aligned/not-null people .. the thread you are looking for is a sticky in F&I and already has loads of good stuff in presented in a civil manner .. which I hear CCP likes Lol
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#79 - 2012-06-04 19:41:42 UTC
Dopified wrote:
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes.


And when was the last time you or your corp displayed mental capacity for "constructive thoughts" with your in-game behavior. That's right, you never did. So pardon us when we dont give any respect to another unskilled idiot who wont even fly a t1 frigate without having his booster alt with him on a movable pos.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-06-04 19:42:50 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Dopified wrote:
Personally guys i would like to see you post constructive thoughts and criticizm about this topic of balanceing the FW plexes.


And when was the last time you or your corp displayed mental capacity for "constructive thoughts" with your in-game behavior. That's right, you never did. So pardon us when we dont give any respect to another unskilled idiot who wont even fly a t1 frigate without having his booster alt with him on a movable pos.



I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this


And for the record yes I am done working today and am now wasting time

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation