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New Mechanics and NPC's

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Author
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#1 - 2012-06-02 20:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
Well first off I want to say i am happy with the new changes and attention that CCP has done with FW. To be honest it is one of the best places to find good pvp and not just dropping caps left and right. The new changes have brought people to the game. But there is still alot of problems that i feel CCP has not addressed that will give certain sides a massive disadvantage when it comes to warefare. Especially with system station lockouts and control. That being said I do like the idea of system station lockouts but there are issues that should be addressed first. Below is a list of problems that will continue to give certain sides disadvantages. Some being more of a problem but all combine together to create a big problem. I will give you examples to back up my reasoning.

1. NPC's, this is the most important aspect of system control in my opinion. For example a caldari militia member can create a toon and with 1 weeks training put that toon in a Condor and afk plex any of the gallente plexes that are out there. We thought that Manticore mission running was unfair they can now get 3 toons put them in majors which is the most lp per hour and literally afk farm plexes. They complain about Damps WHO CARES does nothing to you. This guy on the KM below was in a major plex and there where spawns already happening but look that the damage it did to him. The guy was still 98% shields when i got to him and he fought me still. For a gallente we could not even survive with a t1 frig to make it to the button let alone run the timer. (Not to crap on this player just an example).

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13530894

This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers.

2. Most players joining are Caldari and 0.0 players coming in wanting to keep using Jita. With the new patch it has attracted attention and people are joining but lets look at the numbers. Right now there are 8,651 Caldari militia and 6,542 Gallente militia. As you can see the Caldari have gotten alot more players then gallente have but most of these are PVE farming players in my opinion. Though to be fair alot are coming into pvp most are just farmers because lets face it hell i can make a toon in a week and afk farm plexes in a back water system. I am going to be fair in saying that the Caldari militia are plexing and taking systems close to home. But look at the numbers. In many cases plexing is not as much fighting as it is running at the first sight of an enemy militia. For example I was in Hallenen yesterday with 2 other corp mates. We where in 2 ruptures and 1 cynabal. There was a gang of Caldari in frigs and dessys numbering about 15. who just ran when we would try to engage them. Now to be fair if they thought we had more numbers then i can understand that but we didn't and chased them for several systems. I mean hell i would have taken on that and more with what they had. Now to not go on further I will stop here and give you my conclusion.

CCP should not be consentrating on the Plexing bug first TBO. The main problems are the NPC's. Personally I like the level of difficulty that the gallente have with plexes is fair. But please address this to everyone. Make Gallente and Ammar plexes harder. This will take care of your 1 week old alts farming lp like crazy. To be clear I don't mind the jamming or missle spams as long as it is a difficult for them in our plexes and Ammar plexes. Right now as we stand The gallente are being outplexed 4000+ vp per day and higher by NONE pvp players and pvp players. If you Addressed the issue of NPC's it would even the playing fields. We simply do not have enough people willing or enough people period to keep afk farmers from our systems let alone chase plexers all over when they refuse to fight us and just plex. I can understand Ammar and Gallente running because you can not fight in those plexes properly but minmatar and caldari can with ease. As proven with the KM above. CCP address this ISSUE. This is not a bashing thread on the caldari or minmatar by any means but you have to admit on all sides that CCP has given massive advantages to certain sides on this issue. And yes it does relate heavily now that the new changes have come in. Before the gallente where taking systems even when it did not matter with NPC disadvantage because we worked very hard for that and that goes to certain players with that. But now it is not just about system control as it is farming. Gallente will not have any systems if this keeps going and some gallente do nothing but plex to slow it down. NOT WHY WE JOINED CCP. I did not join to plex all day.

Dopified

Please all feel free to respond and let CCP know what you think about this.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#2 - 2012-06-02 20:53:21 UTC
You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#3 - 2012-06-03 02:51:16 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
You do know what you are talking about, caldari plexes can be easily tanked with t1 frig as solo even with quite low skill points.


Very true we can run plexes in t1 frigs. But you neglect to mention that we can not do this in Major plexes and in med this can not be done afk unless you fully fit out a dual rep cap stable frig and only in med plexes. Again no pvp. If you can please put forward the Ship and Fit with instruction on how to orbit. I would like to see explanation and evidence instead of half truths and misleading information. Someone saying you can run caldari plexes in t1 frig easy does not mean ALL the plexes only the minors.

Gallente Minor- T1 frig afk YES
Gallente Med- T1 frig afk YES
Gallente Major- T1 frig afk YES

Caldari Minor- T1 frig Afk Repper cap stable YES
Caldari Med- T1 frig Afk Reppers and Cap stable fitted for plexing only YES
Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL NO

Again i have given evidence above. This is why the Gallente are losing the battle for systems
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#4 - 2012-06-03 03:05:15 UTC
Wait, you can't solo something afk in a PVP central MMO? Well god damn, lets get this fixed.RollRollRoll






Trolling aside, NPCs need looking at.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2012-06-03 05:12:40 UTC
CCP has tried squashing the timer bug for over 3 years but it keep reappearing in slightly mutated form .. issue is with the plex/timer abomination they created for FW, a mash-up of code from all over the place. Not sure plexes will ever be bug-free.

PS: Is missile spam in Caldari plexes really so heavy that an AB Frig can't solo some (there are spawn differences) majors .. Shakorite majors can speed tanked were it not for the +TP spam I think and they tend to use lighter ordnance thus hitting small/fast harder?
Julius Foederatus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-06-03 07:04:35 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
CCP has tried squashing the timer bug for over 3 years but it keep reappearing in slightly mutated form .. issue is with the plex/timer abomination they created for FW, a mash-up of code from all over the place. Not sure plexes will ever be bug-free.

PS: Is missile spam in Caldari plexes really so heavy that an AB Frig can't solo some (there are spawn differences) majors .. Shakorite majors can speed tanked were it not for the +TP spam I think and they tend to use lighter ordnance thus hitting small/fast harder?


Yes, it really is horrible. You have to use an AB caldari or gallente assault frigate to have a hope of getting it solo, and even those have a hard time if you go into one of the majors with neuting rats. Anything else gets eaten away.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#7 - 2012-06-03 07:43:36 UTC
Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.


And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#8 - 2012-06-03 07:52:46 UTC
I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.

Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-03 09:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Pirate Pete
Quote:
using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes


AFK Dramiels? Free LP and Killmails! Pirate
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#10 - 2012-06-03 11:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Dopified wrote:
Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No


Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost.

And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#11 - 2012-06-03 11:04:35 UTC
Every faction has they own way to do things, that is just good for EVE.

If you want to afk orbit button then join you alt to militia where you can do it.
Jet Major
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-03 15:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jet Major
Super Chair wrote:
I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.

Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.


I agree that some kind of incentive should be given to defensive plexing. I have a limited amount of time to play each day and, for that reason, when I am on my time must be productive. I have done defensive plexing and will continue to do so as I think it's the right thing for me to do for the Federation, however, it would be nice if FW pilots received something for their efforts – hell I’d settle for a Federation Decoration awarded to FW pilots for defensive plexing - awarded after "X" number of hours of defensive plexing.
Mirana Niranne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-03 16:23:35 UTC
Very simple!

Defensive plexing should put half the LP of the site directly into upgrading that system, and MAYBE half to the pilots that turn it back.

There should be more of a penalty for starting a site, and then tucking tail and running at the first sign of trouble.
Julius Foederatus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-06-03 17:00:24 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Dopified wrote:
Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No


Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost.

And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.


You can do it, but you sure as **** can't do it on a week old alt. You need good tanking skills and at least a few mil sp. Gallente majors can be soloed by week old alts.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#15 - 2012-06-03 17:20:29 UTC
A few random points:

I like how PVE helps the total militia cause now. And I like how it pays the PvP'r and the PvE'r. I always thought that PvP focused players need a way to generate isk.

I don't like the idea that frigates can run majors so easily. It is not just imbalanced for Gallente FW. It is also imbalanced for me, because I use a much more expensive ship to do them. When I see a frig in a major... I want to shoot him myself! Fix this plz CCP. (Webbing agents should do the job)

I want to point out that Gallente and Caldari seam to be exchanging systems and status fairly evenly lately. Which means that Galls are doing just as much plexing as Caldari is. (I get tired of all the Caldari/PVE comments)

I'm slightly worried that FW will turn into a PVE grind, and will devolve into a membership decline.
SOV wars in lo-sec also feels wrong imo. Expect to see more cap ships soon...

I had a brief thought about Home systems. More LP in a Home station. More incentive to hold that system, etc. Harder to get locked out of. A place that never falls perhaps? It was just a thought, a couple nights ago. Might help keep moral up and membership confidence.

I have cap ships locked in a station. (And a ton of other ships) I would have to leave FW to access them, then rejoin. Kinda seams like a dumb mechanic.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#16 - 2012-06-03 17:32:03 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Actually Caldari do have an issue with afk orbiting frigs at the moment. Some of our most contested systems are due to pirates using week old dramiel characters to afk orbit all size plexes. The simple solution would be the requirement to kill all npcs in the plex before it can be captured. Coding it might sound like a pain but i think it would fix the afk frig speed tanking plexes issue across all militias.


And as far as fixing the outpost respawn bug I think it should be CCPs top priority. It's game breaking whether its intentional or not.


I like the idea but I think it still will not address the imbalace of how easy the NPC's are. I can understand because you dont want to lose the Manticore mission running if the NPC's actually became harder. Second the ability for you to fight in a major plex in a frig is still another advantage that caldari hold over Gallente. Again good idea about killing all the spawns but I dont think this addresses the issue of imbalance.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#17 - 2012-06-03 17:34:35 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
I'd also like to add in that there should be LP for defensive plexing. Yes there will be alts doing that however it's probably the most anti-fun thing to do right now when you have to go to a backwater system, watch the plexing alts warp off and leave system then have to sit there orbiting the button in the middle of nowhere with no monetary incentive or PvP to be had.

Should it be as much as offensive plexing? Hell no. It should be 1/4 (or less) of what you get of doing a similar sized offensive plex. Why? Because otherwise attacking a system to destroy its infrastructure would be pointless because the defenders could just repour the LP back in for defending.


On this issue I can not agree more with you. Defensive plexing needs rewards.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#18 - 2012-06-03 17:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Dopified wrote:
Caldari Major- T1 Frig IN YOUR DREAMS. HELL No


Again, you are wrong so l2p. Competent incursus can afk a caldari major outpost.

And as for CCP giving advantage to one side, yes they have. To GALLENTE ever since FW started.



Damar you can not be more wrong about this topic and I know that you dont want to give up the NPC advantage. I tried to fit up the Incursus which has a chance after the patch. Before the changes to it NO WAY. I rigged it to kenetic missile damage and dual repped it also making it cap stable. Went in and watched. NOT POSSIBLE AFK. Let alone making a new toon and going out and tanking our plexes without skills is not fair which is why i am asking for balance. You say it is possible so be it but you still do not address the Major imbalance that we have to Massively tank a ship to do them and we cannot fight in a major outpost because you are perma jammed let alone taking so much damage already from missile spam. Again half truths saying we can do it in incursus but as Julius pointed out must have a very Skilled toon if this is even possible. It used to be that the caldari rats did Kenetic missile damage and the rails where thermal damage. I have noticed that the rats now do thermal damage missiles as well as Kenetic damage missiles. Very hard to tank both kinds of damage.

For your second comment again NO evidence to prove this point. As stated this is not a bashing post but a post where i want people to show evidence with thier statment. On both your comments you have no provided anything as far as evidence.
Sakkar Arenith
Kenmei Corporation
#19 - 2012-06-03 17:47:06 UTC
That is quite true, but its not just that amarr n gallente npcs are ****, which they are, its the fact that major can be soloed in frigs/AFs.


The NPCs in general need a buff there.

What id suggest is to simply place a number of stasis/neut/TP towers close to the buttons in mediums/major plexes.

While cruisers/BCs could still solo them with some effort, the solo stabbed AF or dramiel, wont.



That IMO is what would be both the easiest change and by far the most effective, not making taking plexes too demanding, but it would stem the tide of afk zero risk farmers
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#20 - 2012-06-03 17:50:27 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Every faction has they own way to do things, that is just good for EVE.

If you want to afk orbit button then join you alt to militia where you can do it.


I actually like this post BM. You have at least admitted the unfair advantage of your side. Your opinion is that you want it to stay that way and I am of another. But at least you admit it.
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