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Grow some extremely durable genitalia.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#661 - 2012-05-31 12:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Frying Doom wrote:
You believe the Capitals and Forts idea is specifically an attack on Goonswarm even though the idea is from Vricrolatious a member of Goonswarm.
To quote you
Lord Zim wrote:
It's got nothing to do with "my belief this is something specifically aimed at goonswarm"


And you don't think that sounds paranoid?

Huh. I see. So dismissing a claim made by you is "being paranoid". Interesting. Just to be complete, I'm going to quote you:
Frying Doom wrote:
Your belief that this is something specifically aimed at Goonswarm would explain alot of your answers and logic

Then my quote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's got nothing to do with "my belief this is something specifically aimed at goonswarm"

Very paranoid, indeed. Strawman much?

And, let's not forget:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I think your crystal ball is cracked. Null is mostly devoid of life now and making people work harder to find and attack both Miners and PvErs as well as making Alliances actively defend their own territory sounds like very good reasons to remove local.

Yes, it is mostly devoid of life, now. Why do you think that is?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#662 - 2012-05-31 20:40:07 UTC
The more he talks, the less I see any real change coming to nullsec from it.

Big rich alliances will still wipe out the small one. Active nullsec dwellers like GSF won't be effected and other alliances can just keep renting out unused systems to keep "activity" up, what ever that means.

None of these suggestions include anything that actually entices people to live in nullsec. No-local helps people who want to daytrip into null and sneak around, but that is about it. Invading fleets will still get probed down and clobbered by the established powers. All kinds of talk to make null riskier and none about increasing the rewards accordingly. Null already had a jump bridge nerf, lost drone alloys, and is expecting a technetium nerf.


I also love how Frying Doom in particular calls the current sov system broken, and then dismisses the wormholes that provide almost everything he is asking for because it doesn't have the (broken) sov system.


Wormholes;
No local
No jump bridges/drives
No broken sov system
Heavier reliance on probing/scanning and player activity
The rewards match the increased risk
Frying Doom
#663 - 2012-05-31 23:42:51 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
The more he talks, the less I see any real change coming to nullsec from it.

Big rich alliances will still wipe out the small one. Active nullsec dwellers like GSF won't be effected and other alliances can just keep renting out unused systems to keep "activity" up, what ever that means.

None of these suggestions include anything that actually entices people to live in nullsec. No-local helps people who want to daytrip into null and sneak around, but that is about it. Invading fleets will still get probed down and clobbered by the established powers. All kinds of talk to make null riskier and none about increasing the rewards accordingly. Null already had a jump bridge nerf, lost drone alloys, and is expecting a technetium nerf.


I also love how Frying Doom in particular calls the current sov system broken, and then dismisses the wormholes that provide almost everything he is asking for because it doesn't have the (broken) sov system.


Wormholes;
No local
No jump bridges/drives
No broken sov system
Heavier reliance on probing/scanning and player activity
The rewards match the increased risk

Big rich alliances can still wipe out smaller ones but it would be harder in capital and fort systems.

On the fails to include things to intice people please feel free to READ the post in Jita park speakers corner.

An No local will greatly help not just day trippers but smaller alliances and corporations as the lazy will actually have to work to find them.

At the moment 1 scout in under 10 minutes can check 4 or 5 systems for people and so direct the fleet.

The current system favours the lazy, Null sec is meant to be tough lawless space not a space for lazy people who cannot even be bothered to look at a D-scan.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#664 - 2012-05-31 23:45:58 UTC
So, you don't know why nullsec is mostly devoid of life, I take it?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#665 - 2012-05-31 23:46:44 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
You believe the Capitals and Forts idea is specifically an attack on Goonswarm even though the idea is from Vricrolatious a member of Goonswarm.
To quote you
Lord Zim wrote:
It's got nothing to do with "my belief this is something specifically aimed at goonswarm"


And you don't think that sounds paranoid?

Huh. I see. So dismissing a claim made by you is "being paranoid". Interesting. Just to be complete, I'm going to quote you:
Frying Doom wrote:
Your belief that this is something specifically aimed at Goonswarm would explain alot of your answers and logic

Then my quote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's got nothing to do with "my belief this is something specifically aimed at goonswarm"

Very paranoid, indeed. Strawman much?

And, let's not forget:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I think your crystal ball is cracked. Null is mostly devoid of life now and making people work harder to find and attack both Miners and PvErs as well as making Alliances actively defend their own territory sounds like very good reasons to remove local.

Yes, it is mostly devoid of life, now. Why do you think that is?

This package to invigorate Null and make it for people who pay attention and are prepared to have to actually do something is NOT aimed at the Goonswarm. It is aimed at Smaller Alliances and to hopefully allow people to want to go to Null sec.

The current population levels show very clearly most people have no reason at all for wanting to go to Null. Personally I don't blame them in it's current form it is not worth the effort.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#666 - 2012-05-31 23:49:07 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Compared to you always die it is way better then the opposite and it would be garbage gameplay.

I am not saying don't remove local, I am saying make a counter to cloaks.


I'm not against that. But the counter would be there already. Sure there would be ambushes, thats good gameplay, but you wouldn't be visible in local. So the cloaker would have to be as patient as you were at determining whether an area was safe or not.

The 5 cloaker ambush at an anom would also risk having a 10 cloaker ambush reveal right near them.


God this sounds fun. Fleets of people hanging around a single anom for hours, hoping that other people come near it.
Frying Doom
#667 - 2012-05-31 23:54:06 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
So, you don't know why nullsec is mostly devoid of life, I take it?

You mean besides its boring
It favours lazy blobbers
The risk vs reward is broken
The sov system allows people to claim more territory than they could realistically use.
It is currently impossible for small alliances to hold Sov independantly.
There are gate camps every were due to the free intel keeping them safe
There are no industry facilities worth anything

And the list goes on. My hands would probably fall off before I finished it is that bad.

On The subject of this post NO LOCAL

The only people I have heard arguing for local to remain in Null are the usual candidates who are part of the lazy blob at the moment. They them selves are not the problem but they have just fallen into the pattern the current system has permitted.

Local is free intel, makes no sense in Null sec and should go.

Some more likes and the OP's original post could run as a CSM member.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#668 - 2012-06-01 00:01:38 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Compared to you always die it is way better then the opposite and it would be garbage gameplay.

I am not saying don't remove local, I am saying make a counter to cloaks.


I'm not against that. But the counter would be there already. Sure there would be ambushes, thats good gameplay, but you wouldn't be visible in local. So the cloaker would have to be as patient as you were at determining whether an area was safe or not.

The 5 cloaker ambush at an anom would also risk having a 10 cloaker ambush reveal right near them.


God this sounds fun. Fleets of people hanging around a single anom for hours, hoping that other people come near it.

Sounds almost as boring as the current setup.

Camp a gate kill single or small parties, see a blo coming from systems away (using locals and alts) dock up till the blob goes by.

Or the opposite side of be in the blob, trying to kill smaller parties watching most of them docking up before you get there. Send URL links in local showing a dog hiding in a cushion fort. continue on your way till you find another blob. At which point you instantly know its size and the age of the players. Hide or fight depending on if the numbers are favourable to the blob.

Real exciting... It really shows that local must go it makes life too safe and easy. Easy being the big one if someone is mining in a system now you just have to jump into a dead end system to see if anyone is there.

Its lazy and it makes no sense.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#669 - 2012-06-01 00:06:45 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Sounds almost as boring as the current setup.

Camp a gate kill single or small parties, see a blo coming from systems away (using locals and alts) dock up till the blob goes by.

Or the opposite side of be in the blob, trying to kill smaller parties watching most of them docking up before you get there. Send URL links in local showing a dog hiding in a cushion fort. continue on your way till you find another blob. At which point you instantly know its size and the age of the players. Hide or fight depending on if the numbers are favourable to the blob.

Real exciting... It really shows that local must go it makes life too safe and easy. Easy being the big one if someone is mining in a system now you just have to jump into a dead end system to see if anyone is there.

Its lazy and it makes no sense.


Alternatively you can learn to not be bad and watch pilots in certain alliances, and I'm going to talk up some people I really dislike here: EO in Pandemic Legion.

They would watch traffic in an area for a bit, learn how people moved and then setup camp in a place that generally got them 20-30 kills an hour while they were in our space. WIth the way JB's were changed it's laughably easy to get a kill on a route. But yes if you blunder in a straight line through space hoping to find a fight: You are probably going to be disappointed.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#670 - 2012-06-01 00:06:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
This package to invigorate Null and make it for people who pay attention and are prepared to have to actually do something is NOT aimed at the Goonswarm. It is aimed at Smaller Alliances and to hopefully allow people to want to go to Null sec.

You're the one who claimed I believed it was aimed at goonswarm, and that I'm paranoid for thinking so. I'm telling you I'm not thinking so.

Frying Doom wrote:
The current population levels show very clearly most people have no reason at all for wanting to go to Null. Personally I don't blame them in it's current form it is not worth the effort.

Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
So, you don't know why nullsec is mostly devoid of life, I take it?

You mean besides its boring
It favours lazy blobbers
The risk vs reward is broken
The sov system allows people to claim more territory than they could realistically use.
It is currently impossible for small alliances to hold Sov independantly.
There are gate camps every were due to the free intel keeping them safe
There are no industry facilities worth anything

And the list goes on. My hands would probably fall off before I finished it is that bad.

On The subject of this post NO LOCAL

The only people I have heard arguing for local to remain in Null are the usual candidates who are part of the lazy blob at the moment. They them selves are not the problem but they have just fallen into the pattern the current system has permitted.

Local is free intel, makes no sense in Null sec and should go.

Some more likes and the OP's original post could run as a CSM member.Lol

So you're looking at this list, looking at the current nullsec population, and you're still going "I know the risk vs reward is broken, but I'll believe that the risk factor should be upped even further and I'll expect that it'll have a positive effect on the nullsec population"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#671 - 2012-06-01 00:21:05 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

So you're looking at this list, looking at the current nullsec population, and you're still going "I know the risk vs reward is broken, but I'll believe that the risk factor should be upped even further and I'll expect that it'll have a positive effect on the nullsec population"?

Actually removing local would not up the risk factor for those who pay attention to Dscan. I do agree that the risk is increased if are too lazy to pay attention.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#672 - 2012-06-01 00:26:10 UTC
On a completely separate and off topic post.

I must congratulate Goonswarm on their 9165 Members. Also congratulate Test alliance on clearing 7000. I may be pro small alliance but those numbers are impressive.

Anyway back to why Large alliance member want local and so many smaller alliances and people want it shot and buried.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#673 - 2012-06-01 00:27:09 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

So you're looking at this list, looking at the current nullsec population, and you're still going "I know the risk vs reward is broken, but I'll believe that the risk factor should be upped even further and I'll expect that it'll have a positive effect on the nullsec population"?

Actually removing local would not up the risk factor for those who pay attention to Dscan. I do agree that the risk is increased if are too lazy to pay attention.

Tell us more about how reducing the time you have available to you to respond to a hostile zeroing in on you equals "not more risk".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#674 - 2012-06-01 00:28:01 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually removing local would not up the risk factor for those who pay attention to Dscan. I do agree that the risk is increased if are too lazy to pay attention.


Dscan only works if the ship isn't cloaky. You don't live in null, so someone might as well tell you: cloaking ships (i.e. stealth bombers) are really quite popular. Imagine how popular they'd be without local!

Removing local shoots risk through the roof, far beyond anything increased bounties or better minerals could ever fix.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#675 - 2012-06-01 00:29:48 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Actually removing local would not up the risk factor for those who pay attention to Dscan. I do agree that the risk is increased if are too lazy to pay attention.


Dscan only works if the ship isn't cloaky. You don't live in null, so someone might as well tell you: cloaking ships (i.e. stealth bombers) are really quite popular. Imagine how popular they'd be without local!

Removing local shoots risk through the roof, far beyond anything increased bounties or better minerals could ever fix.

Oh no you mean Covert ships might actually become Covert? Oh the horror. Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#676 - 2012-06-01 00:32:36 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

So you're looking at this list, looking at the current nullsec population, and you're still going "I know the risk vs reward is broken, but I'll believe that the risk factor should be upped even further and I'll expect that it'll have a positive effect on the nullsec population"?

Actually removing local would not up the risk factor for those who pay attention to Dscan. I do agree that the risk is increased if are too lazy to pay attention.

Tell us more about how reducing the time you have available to you to respond to a hostile zeroing in on you equals "not more risk".

Umm because the lazy would actually have to do something to find you in the first place.

And yes I am aware of the anom argument but lets see you go through 4 or more systems warping to every anom and coming up empty, before you decide to do some work and actually try to scan people down.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#677 - 2012-06-01 00:33:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh no you mean Covert ships might actually become Covert? Oh the horror. Lol


They already are covert - I may know that neutral X is in the system, but unless they've decloaked and fired or killed someone who shared a KM, I have no idea what they're in at all. That's also exactly why they're popular as hell in null. You'd know this is if you lived there - guess it's just easier to spout off half-baked ideas for areas of the game you've never experienced, though. Beats the hell out of thinking about things!

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#678 - 2012-06-01 00:39:24 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh no you mean Covert ships might actually become Covert? Oh the horror. Lol


They already are covert - I may know that neutral X is in the system, but unless they've decloaked and fired or killed someone who shared a KM, I have no idea what they're in at all. That's also exactly why they're popular as hell in null. You'd know this is if you lived there - guess it's just easier to spout off half-baked ideas for areas of the game you've never experienced, though. Beats the hell out of thinking about things!

Here is a real life analogy for you.

Would the US government have thrown so many billions of dollars into stealth research and then manufactured stealth fighters and bombers if radars could see them but not detect exactly where they are?

Having Local in Null makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even fit into the games Lore, Especially not where black ops are involved.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#679 - 2012-06-01 00:42:45 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Here is a real life analogy for you.

Would the US government have thrown so many billions of dollars into stealth research and then manufactured stealth fighters and bombers if radars could see them but not detect exactly where they are?

Having Local in Null makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even fit into the games Lore, Especially not where black ops are involved.


Ah, and there's the real life examples. Real life examples for a game that's set in an alternate universe where space travel is several orders of magnitude more advanced than today. Totally makes sense! It can't be that you don't have any actual Eve-related arguments to back up your ridiculous ideas, could it? Nah, it must be that real life examples are relevant!

ps Stealth Technology doesn't actually make ships literally invisible, you supergenius you.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#680 - 2012-06-01 00:49:13 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Here is a real life analogy for you.

Would the US government have thrown so many billions of dollars into stealth research and then manufactured stealth fighters and bombers if radars could see them but not detect exactly where they are?

Having Local in Null makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even fit into the games Lore, Especially not where black ops are involved.


Ah, and there's the real life examples. Real life examples for a game that's set in an alternate universe where space travel is several orders of magnitude more advanced than today. Totally makes sense! It can't be that you don't have any actual Eve-related arguments to back up your ridiculous ideas, could it? Nah, it must be that real life examples are relevant!

ps Stealth Technology doesn't actually make ships literally invisible, you supergenius you.

You say its in the future ect.. technology is more advenced ect... But You believe that stealth technology while able to bend light would fail a basic requirement for what we have today.

I have said many times why No local in null would disadvantage the lazy, I was pointing out that your logic did and still does not make any sense.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!