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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Laserham Lincoln
Ice Fire Warriors
#241 - 2012-05-23 21:37:15 UTC
I am among those who dislike the new inventory system. I used to be able to have a small, unobtrusive window for my station inventory and another for my ships. The new system actually takes up more screen real estate to achieve the same functionality, and being unable to double click to open my ship's cargo bay without changing the station inventory window is extremely frustrating (loss of double click was one of the main complaints about the removal of ship spinning, in fact).

Part of the problem is the inefficient use of space in the new inventory windows themselves, even with the tree collapsed. The bar at the bottom showing the number of items and the approximate value is very thick relative to the amount of information conveyed. Having these both on the same line (one left justified and one right justified) takes up half as much space.

The same goes for the search bar, icon options, and collapse arrow. These can be condensed to take up a lot less vertical space.

With the things I just described, I've lost literally half of the usable area that used to exist in my station inventory window to needless black space. Granted YMMV based on how you size your windows, but this design is still needlessly inefficient, especially given the stated goals of this feature.

I would strongly suggest:
1. Make these fields optional (I personally don't care how many items are in a specific hangar and would much much rather have another line or two of items listed)

2. Have the option to have double-clicking on your ship open a new window by default

3. Return the corp hangar and delivery buttons to the office panel in stations, which will open a new window by default
Pierru
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-05-23 21:37:53 UTC
Megarom wrote:


- shift +L-click to open new window on the container.



Good one.
Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2012-05-23 21:40:02 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Maintaining two systems really isn't an option and I've never seen this promised anywhere. As I mentioned, we'll continue making changes and making fixes (like the looting reverting to the main hangar) though, so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.


How about being able to drop from my cargohold in to another Corperation Corp hanager array, it worked before the patch. I'm looking forward to the PoS improvemnts.
Stralow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#244 - 2012-05-23 21:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Stralow
Posted this before another place, but i think its got lost in people insulting each other.

Is it possible to get an UI like Norton Commander/Total Commander?

Made some bad photoshop to illustrate:

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/ncstyle4fo5xwkv2b.jpg

So, you have two tabs where you can individually choose pos modules, containers, whatever and simply move stuff around. On the right side in yellow I've made a own folder and named it 'Reactions'. You could simply drag and drop pos modules in your own folders and keep them together. So its easy to get things sorted out and have it in one place rather than simply scroll up and down your silos or whatever.

And while were at this topic, please get rid of the 3000 meters... its a big pos, why is this restriction anyway?

Is it possible to loot wrecks with a right click in the ui or the overview? If it does the whole looting process would be much faster. Simply mark all wrecks around you with shift Click, right click, loot all and it all goes to your cargo at once. The 100 mouse clicks for that are unnecessary...

P.S. The Tengu i was sitting in doesn't have a drone bay, but my UI told me it has. i click on it and it says 0/0m3 Doesn't make any sense to show me the dronebay then... Blink

i say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit. it's the only way to be sure
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#245 - 2012-05-23 21:47:45 UTC
Since the data is clearly there, could you add an "Estimated Value" column to the table? I tried to right-click to add columns, and it just wasn't an option.

Could the volume column come before the size column in the default order?

A unit volume column could be handy.

You know, just go get jEveAssets and steal some of its features.
Corbin Rencliff
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#246 - 2012-05-23 21:50:34 UTC
The current fix is a nice start but one of the major issues which was not even mentioned was the problem with can/wrecks. When I open something like a can in space I need it to open in a separate window, in the same space it was in last time I opened a can. When one is being shot or just trying to be efficient it is important to know where things will be and be able to predict their behavior.

If you think this a minor issue try looting a battlefield or hauling cans for a mining op. With the new system there are several more clicks and menu scrolls involved which are just silly.
Leela Turanga Koldar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2012-05-23 21:52:23 UTC
Hi,
ich werde es in Deutsch fassen müssen, da mein english grausam ist...

Die Neuerungen Betreff des Handlings Hangar - Cargos - Lager usw. halte ich für sehr umständlich.. es dauert länger alle Fenster an die richtigen Positionen zu bringen... bis zu 3x mehr Aufwand, an der Orca gemessen, wenn sie zum Minern unterstützt.

Mein Vorschlag diesbezüglich:
Erschaffen einer Makro-Funktion, die die Abläufe zum Herstellen der benötigten Fenster und deren Positionen vereint (z.B.: Hulk Cargo & Corporationshangar & Erzlager/Frachtraum). 1 Knopfdruck, und alle 4 Fenster stehen an den richtigen Positionen und müssen nicht mühsam an die entsprechende Stelle verbracht werden...

Es dürfte für Euch kein sehr großer Aufwand sein diese zu integrieren...

Desweiteren einen ganz grossen Lob an Euch alle für die super Grafikeffekte (Torps, Missile und Rockets). Es sieht fantastisch aus ^^

bis denne
Bin auf Eure Reaktion gespannt

Maul555
Xen Investments
#248 - 2012-05-23 21:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Quote:
Shift-clicking works fine, but like with all shortcuts, you need to know it exists. We’re going to allow inventories to be “dragged out” of the main UI. It’s basically the same functionality as shift clicking, but instead of being hidden behind a hotkey, you can simply drag and drop it out with your mouse.

This is great... drag out to new window.... I like it. You need to do this AND include double-click for this. Both wold be awesome.


Quote:

Your active ship will be available both through the current tree but it will also be available in the hangar tree, to avoid confusion.
When you use a shortcut to open a specific bay, it will open in “separated” mode, with the tree view compact so you can quickly get the view you want.

also good, but I have one big problem... What shortcuts are you referring to? Keyboard shortcuts, that I never use. Let me make it really crystal clear. An existing window should never be hijacked for any reason when all I want to do is look at something else.


Quote:
The main UI will always be available from the Neocom, even when you have separated windows open.

good



along with these other changes, if you get them out quick enough, you just might be able to save our WH operation, and all of my highsec miners that rely on me.



Also, give me a way to get around without ever interacting with that god awful tree. Like I used to have. Where are my right click access options? this is huge to me... HUGE!
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#249 - 2012-05-23 21:54:49 UTC
just got around to reading this dev blog... thanks for looking into these issues, once you fixed the thing that has nothing to do with POS'es... then I will stop playing diablo 3 24/7, and begin to play eve 12/7 and diablo 12/7

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Aelita
CHON
THE R0NIN
#250 - 2012-05-23 22:08:49 UTC
Laserham Lincoln wrote:
I am among those who dislike the new inventory system. I used to be able to have a small, unobtrusive window for my station inventory and another for my ships. The new system actually takes up more screen real estate to achieve the same functionality, and being unable to double click to open my ship's cargo bay without changing the station inventory window is extremely frustrating (loss of double click was one of the main complaints about the removal of ship spinning, in fact).

Part of the problem is the inefficient use of space in the new inventory windows themselves, even with the tree collapsed. The bar at the bottom showing the number of items and the approximate value is very thick relative to the amount of information conveyed. Having these both on the same line (one left justified and one right justified) takes up half as much space.

The same goes for the search bar, icon options, and collapse arrow. These can be condensed to take up a lot less vertical space.

With the things I just described, I've lost literally half of the usable area that used to exist in my station inventory window to needless black space. Granted YMMV based on how you size your windows, but this design is still needlessly inefficient, especially given the stated goals of this feature.

I would strongly suggest:
1. Make these fields optional (I personally don't care how many items are in a specific hangar and would much much rather have another line or two of items listed)

2. Have the option to have double-clicking on your ship open a new window by default

3. Return the corp hangar and delivery buttons to the office panel in stations, which will open a new window by default


This! Please make header and footer compact and taking no more than one line. We don't need taken so much space from container window. Important is content not secondary information.
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#251 - 2012-05-23 22:09:34 UTC
Ok good to hear progress is being made. This is all we ask ccp thanks.

(You know you could have avoided the whole issue if you mabye would have acted on earlier advice from the test server peeps.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Josef Djugashvilis
#252 - 2012-05-23 22:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Mechael wrote:
Hans Tesla wrote:
[quote=n2thefray]After testing, it seems somewhat... uneven. Some items are spot on, others are way over/under priced.


I would like to know the answer to this as well. It certainly isn't regional average price.


Just curious about the estimated value display.

Did many of the player base ask for this feature?

Just seems pointless to me.

This is not a signature.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#253 - 2012-05-23 22:11:18 UTC
One more idea. If you cannot remove the "None" leaf from ships, at least convert it to "Cargo hold" or "Main Hold". It may be a little confusing, but I'd rather have two ways to get to it than wonder what "None" means or wonder where my regular hold is when looking at the Orca's 3 other bays.
Fitz Muller
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#254 - 2012-05-23 22:15:49 UTC
POS structures is a tricky one for me at the moment. Can I suggest that we bring tabs back, even just as quick small text words at the top of the inventory window (not the index).

I have quite a few corporate hangers and labs etc at my towers and if I have my main inventory window open with my ship cargo I want to shift + click a hanger and move things to a particular tab. The pop out window that opens on shift click hides the index by default and even if I do pop the index back out, I want to keep the window small so I then can't read labels in the index easily.

Moving items by dropping onto the index list is also not the best as some of my towers have large numbers of structures and secure containers and my index list would require a lot of scrolling.

Also I think the user needs more control of what appears and what does not in the inventory index, and the ability to re-order the index.

Thanks very much, Fitz
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#255 - 2012-05-23 22:18:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Just curious about the estimated value display.

Did many of the player base asked for this feature?

Just seems pointless to me.


Well, not pointless, just horribly inaccurate for a lot of things (and probably the same values that are being used for their new killmail value feature).
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#256 - 2012-05-23 22:18:43 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We’re going to allow renaming of all POS structures, this should let players navigate more easily in the tree view, instead of a large group of identical items.


TTP = 0 seconds.
Josef Djugashvilis
#257 - 2012-05-23 22:21:22 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

Just curious about the estimated value display.

Did many of the player base asked for this feature?

Just seems pointless to me.


Well, not pointless, just horribly inaccurate for a lot of things (and probably the same values that are being used for their new killmail value feature).


It is precisely because it is 'just horribly inaccurate' that I think it is pointless.

This is not a signature.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#258 - 2012-05-23 22:25:03 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
Thank you for addressing these issues quickly. I am unsure what happened to the optional nature of this UI change that we were promised (I'd link where that was told to us but it's currently impossible to find with search terms like 'optional'), and I have looked everywhere for the button to turn it off and don't see it. Good to see you're fixing it, that issue was going to cause a lot of people to quit. It currently makes the game much harder to play for many activities. If I didn't think you were going to address it, I would leave. I don't want to leave. I want the issues to be fixed.

Still looking for that option to turn it off...or the post that said that it would be optional. He was all excited about it, too, I'm going to keep looking for that post.


Maintaining two systems really isn't an option and I've never seen this promised anywhere. As I mentioned, we'll continue making changes and making fixes (like the looting reverting to the main hangar) though, so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.



you don't have to maintain two systems... Just give us back the old UI and put this new stuff into the Assets window... Bam! instant game upgrade and everyone is happy.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#259 - 2012-05-23 22:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
Here's an awesome video demonstrating the amazing 30 second load time it currently has at a POS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-kRZY2WdUU

30 seconds is extremely painful every single time you warp off grid and back. Also it likes to reload the entire UI anytime someone changes ships. Christ.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#260 - 2012-05-23 22:29:58 UTC
Xarhariel wrote:
Quote:
Shift-clicking works fine, but like with all shortcuts, you need to know it exists. We’re going to allow inventories to be “dragged out” of the main UI. It’s basically the same functionality as shift clicking, but instead of being hidden behind a hotkey, you can simply drag and drop it out with your mouse.


Double clicking works fine, for opening up new windows - and it also means that for a new user coming to this new UI (which is everybody) they won't feel like they're having to learn a new and unintuitive way of opening up new windows.

Regardless, I'm pleased that CCP is actually doing something and looking to fix the more broken parts. (However it should honestly of never been released in this state, where it is being fixed and basic functionality that should of been there right from the beginning.)


Double clicking is far more intuitive and is just a more usable method to open container and such.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.