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Inferno Features on Singularity

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#201 - 2012-05-02 19:21:02 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Quick reminder to keep this thread civil. I wouldn't want to see valid feedback get deleted because it also contains insults and trolling, but it will happen - so take a breath before hitting that "post" button and make sure that you're saying all you want to say and nothing more. Also I would encourage those theorycrafting on FW scenarios to actually try it out on the server and see how it handles rather than kneejerk-responding to some patch notes - you might have fun! Bear


A good point, and my apologies.

I have to admit the main draw for me right now (as soon as I get home and SiSi updated) is to check out the new bombers and missile effects, but with the proposed changes for the first time in a couple of years I'm motivated to get my hand back into FW.

Again, sorry for getting so opinionated. That goes out to all concerned.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#202 - 2012-05-02 19:22:59 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Quick reminder to keep this thread civil. I wouldn't want to see valid feedback get deleted because it also contains insults and trolling, but it will happen - so take a breath before hitting that "post" button and make sure that you're saying all you want to say and nothing more. Also I would encourage those theorycrafting on FW scenarios to actually try it out on the server and see how it handles rather than kneejerk-responding to some patch notes - you might have fun! Bear


THERE IS NO CIVILITY ONLY POSTING

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#203 - 2012-05-02 19:24:04 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Big smile

There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. ....



Let me stop you right there. Roaming gangs actually have 2 things in common. 1)They roam and 2) they are a gang.

The rest of your post are just different qualities of the types of gangs you may like to fly in. But they don't apply to every sort of roaming gang.


And sorry, not to be crass, but unless your an alt of some other player with a more impressive killboard I don't really care what your think "eve combat 101" is.




You've got me there, yes, they are also a gang. Smile

Feel free to be crass, I'll join you.

Your kills = 433
My kills= 2630

And yes, this is my industrial character, one of my PVP characters.

Now put your epeen away. Blink

Insight into these matters doesn't have anything to do with killboard stats, it has everything to do with experience with combat in something similar to its proposed form.


You have the number of kills wrong. But I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about just looks at the number of kills someone has when they evaluate their killboard. The fact that you do sort of proves my point.

It also demonstrates another difference between players in low sec looking for frequent quality small scale fun fights and players like you in null sec looking to get lots of kills and minimize your losses.

What you do with your "serious fleet engagements" is of no interest to me.

Again you really don't get it, and that is not meant as an insult but just a statement of fact.

I think the only thing we agree on is that you have experience in "something similar" to what is being proposed. That is we agree that proposal makes faction war more like your sov null sec experience. For those who want all of eve to be more of the same this is good. For those who want different ways to play the game this idea is horrible.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Necro Merc
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-05-02 19:25:12 UTC
If I have the Sisi launcher up, will it update automatically when the server is back up or do I have to keep checking/relaunching it ?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#205 - 2012-05-02 19:26:05 UTC
Well, this is awkward. Roll I can't really fully discuss the big picture here without all the details on the table, and apparently not everything that has been discussed has yet made it to SiSi. I don't have a concrete list of what's on the server, nether does anyone, so until I get home from work and can test for and look for the "missing" changes here I'm limited in what I can say.

The biggest thing I can say right now is that I'd like to encourage everyone in FW to keep their pants on tight and wait just a bit more before shaving your heads and declaring that "FW is dead" and unsubbing or running off to something else.

TBH, due to the nature of FW even if all of the changes that were on table had been posted on SiSi, it will take a month or so at least on Tranquility itself to let people fight actual wars in the new system, before any of you can provide *useful* feedback.

There will be some of you that no doubt read a list of changes, and say "**** it" and quit without even giving the new system a chance. And really, I don't care. The FW community is mostly dedicated pilots that have put up with three years of neglect and still managed to have fun somehow (or else you shouldn't be playing) so I think another two months to allow the final list of changes to surface and actually be tested isn't too much to ask.

All of the "this will only favor blobbing" and "its hopeless for whoever loses" are mere speculation at this point, none of us including myself can fully predict what the outcomes will be. I remain very optimistic, based on the changes I've worked on with Ytterbium, and am excited to try them out, but its a bit tough at the moment because I'm not sure what is on SiSi and thus free to talk about until I get home and check it all out.

Thanks for your patience, FW peeps!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#206 - 2012-05-02 19:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Marcus Foederatus wrote:
Personally I don't think the changes are harsh enough, I'm looking forward to some aspects, but frankly you guys need to close the loophole for neutrals. Make docking rights apply to players with low standings, and not just enemy militia. You shouldn't be incentivizing people to just leave FW to grief people or get around the purpose of the mechanics.

Secondly, what about the cyno jammers? Are they coming in or no? And if not, why not? We're tired of 0.0 super cap blobs being able to hotdrop us from across the galaxy (sometimes literally) whenever they're bored. Give us some freaking control of our own space.



I woudln't be opposed to Neturals having some restrictions on docking in these area's, but I also understand that they are trying to give incentives to the general population to support their chosen faction (regardless of their heritage). The key might actually be to provide more incentives to pick a side and support it. That will likely be one of those "see how it goes" things, as more incentives can always be added if needed.

Good point on Cyno jammers, although it may not be all that necessary depending on what transpires with the Super Cap nerf effectiveness. If it ends up that jumping in Supers only makes them an easy target for conventional fleets, and they really serve no purpose in the type of fighting that will occur in FW, it might not be that necessary... but I tend to agree wtih you at this point.

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FeralShadow
Academy of the Unseen Arts
#207 - 2012-05-02 19:28:20 UTC
So what Cearain wants to see is FW to stay as it is? Stagnant and dull? No thanks broski.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#208 - 2012-05-02 19:31:20 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
So what Cearain wants to see is FW to stay as it is? Stagnant and dull? No thanks broski.


They want FW to stay as the boring isk printer that it is.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

TheButcherPete
Blackbase Incorporated
#209 - 2012-05-02 19:32:10 UTC
Wey'oun wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:

• Drone Damage module (Extrinsic Damage Amplifier)




Will they effect fighter/fighterbombers also? or just standard drones?


Fighters / FB technically aren't drones, so no. Just as they're not affected by Drone Nav or OmniDirec

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#210 - 2012-05-02 19:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Ranger 1 wrote:

There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. They are not dependant of a safe station to dock in when things heat up, or having a stash of different ships and modules to swap out to if they meet appropriate resistance.

The concept of a roaming gang being unable to function unless they have a safe harbor in the target system/area is ludicrous.


A thousand times this. Ranger gets it, and its attitudes like his that will bring success in the new FW system.

Lets be honest - a lot of FW these days consists of pilots sitting in stations, waiting for a fleet to form, or an enemy to be spotted, and a whole metric butt-ton of complaining about the lack of targets to shoot, and people doing other things while waiting for action. I myself, am guilty of this from time to time.

If everyone in FW was in space more often, there would be all the activity people claim isn't there. There is a lot of fear about blobbing and such, but last time I checked its WAY easier to get a 10 man frigate gang around in enemy territory than a 30-man battleship fleet.

There just shouldn't be any question that the luxury of security in every station in lowsec leads to more pilots being docked up, more of the time. This in turn reduces the number of fights to be had.

Whether station docking "ruins" Faction Warfare will be completely dependent on whether FW pilots are willing to be brave and make pushes into enemy space, and I'm confident enough in our skills that gangs WILL find a way to get in and seize plexes and be able to avoid the major blobs.

That is, if they actually try to do so before complaining and quitting.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#211 - 2012-05-02 19:37:17 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
There will be some of you that no doubt read a list of changes, and say "**** it" and quit without even giving the new system a chance.



I don't think the negative reaction is to the list of "changes" (plural). Its mainly to one change. No docking. In the threads and communities I have seen faction war players have been against this change pretty clearly with a few exceptions.

Now I haven't tried it out but I think the mechanic is pretty clear. We won't be able to dock in enemy controled faction war space. Do I need to fly my ship to a station on sisi and get the message "you can't dock here" to understand how that will work?

I don't know that anyone is saying that they will rage quit. I think the players have been expressing thier views on this. Yes people like ranger1 who does sov null sec might now be interested in faction war. Other null sec players think this is fine or even great. But by and large lots of faction war players (especially those who do allot of small scale pvp and plexing) would prefer they did something less drastic.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#212 - 2012-05-02 19:38:24 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
So what Cearain wants to see is FW to stay as it is? Stagnant and dull? No thanks broski.



Not at all. All the changes seem agreeable except one.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#213 - 2012-05-02 19:40:32 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Please tell us, in your own words, what you think roaming gangs are.


(By the way, you double posted on your various alts.)

Big smile

There are various types of roaming gangs, but all have one thing in common... they roam. They are not dependant of a safe station to dock in when things heat up, or having a stash of different ships and modules to swap out to if they meet appropriate resistance.

:lots more brilliant understanding of roaming:


My favorite is the "logis don't get primaried" comment.

As a logi pilot, I gotta say good luck with that if you are facing a proper fleet comp. Any number of fights I have been, where we lost, in the logi wing is the only group to make it home. You only need 3-4, and suddenly the enemy has to completely alpha a logi to take it out, while a scimitar has a tiny sigrad and is fast enough to speed tank an entire enemy fleet. 70km rep range works wonders to keep them safe as well.

If you are having issues with your logis getting primaried, maybe you should take a moment and teach them how to fly for the role.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#214 - 2012-05-02 19:41:03 UTC
since this feedback thread is getting filled with FW stuff, Team Super Friends would like feedback related to what we're doing in this thread instead

I'm talking about the war dec stuff, kill reports and new modules

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#215 - 2012-05-02 19:42:18 UTC
Quote:
You have the number of kills wrong. But I don't think anyone who knows what they are talking about just looks at the number of kills someone has when they evaluate their killboard. The fact that you do sort of proves my point.


Actually, you brought up the subject of killboards if you will remember. Please feel free to analyze mine any way you wish, but I'll point out AGAIN that they have little bearing on this discussion. Only the types of engagements, and the environment those combats took place in have even slight relevance.

I understand you do not wish FW to end up being identical to Null warfare, but when you consider:

The abundance of stations in close proximity to any potential combat zone.
The abundance of neutrals living in those area's.
The abundance of hostile 3rd parties frequenting those area's.
The loyalty points for kills mechanic.
The incentives proposed for increasing support (and recruiting) of neutrals to support a particular faction (by playing on their greed.. errr. sense of fiscal responsibility).
The restrictions in effect on cap ship use in Low Sec.

There actually seems to be very little danger of FW becoming a clone of Null Sec combat, even if they share some mechanics. And they "should" share some mechanics. For many pilots FW will be (and in fact already is) a stepping stone to heading into Null.

We will all have to see what the details of the changes are, but the broad strokes look good so far.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Mata1s
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#216 - 2012-05-02 19:45:44 UTC
Not sure if it's been posted but when is SISI back up, is the downtime so far an indication of how long the TQ patch will be?
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-05-02 19:49:49 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
since this feedback thread is getting filled with FW stuff, Team Super Friends would like feedback related to what we're doing in this thread instead

I'm talking about the war dec stuff, kill reports and new modules


I don't think it is about FW.
They are starved for missiles and explosions and now start biting each other until Sisi is up to feed them what they hunger for.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#218 - 2012-05-02 19:50:59 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
since this feedback thread is getting filled with FW stuff, Team Super Friends would like feedback related to what we're doing in this thread instead

I'm talking about the war dec stuff, kill reports and new modules


I don't think it is about FW.
They are starved for missiles and explosions and now start biting each other until Sisi is up to feed them what they hunger for.


HIGHLY LIKELY! Big smile

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Desolous Khagah
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2012-05-02 19:51:34 UTC
Do want the missiles :(

Also, the cpu rigs, new boosters and drone damage mods will lead to very interesting new fits.
xVx dreadnaught
Space Telentics Systems Inc
#220 - 2012-05-02 19:52:19 UTC
Brzhk wrote:
Active shield tank is now immune to cap warfare... That is a huge minnie boost !



Not so fast... if you have one of these "Auxiliary shield booster" fitted... then yes, you can't be neuted out. But most people who active shield boost fit do so to PVE, and you don't want to take a cap booster sucking Shield booster to PVE, because they would suck for efficiency.

But would be hella nice on a Sleipnir or another Booster preferred PVP ship.