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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#961 - 2012-03-13 23:20:36 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:
0 Trans = Dead. These changes do nothing to fix peoples stupidity


why don't you join PL about it lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#962 - 2012-03-13 23:20:37 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623314 Oh wait.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623239 Oh... Oh no.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/621694 Titans can't hit small ships.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625987 That looks like a drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625956 Clearly a dual LSE large sigged drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625985 :ohdear:
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625893 Oh oh god.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/629988 Look at all the LSE's on that drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/629987 Another one of those drakes.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623437 No Problem At All.

Reposting these killmails for the titan thread. Anybody who cares enough can also hit the battles button for those kills, and see where fleets of hundreds were wiped out by 40 titans, while the titan group took generally 0 losses.

Anybody in this thread who thinks there wasn't a problem with titans has never spent a week having every single fight end with a titan blob being cyno'd in on your head the second you burn all the way over to wherever you're fighting, and hit grid. And being told to immediately turn around and go home, because there is nothing a subcap fleet can do to a titan blob but die as fast as the titans can cycle their guns.

Remember when they decided to park a small group of titans on a gate and just camp it with them, killing anything that came through? Yeah, no problem at all with titans.



I'm not going to say titan tracking isn't/wasn't too good when fit specifically for tracking, because it is but posting killmails to make your point is just stupid. Killmails don't prove anything.

I can guarantee that if that Buzzard didn't mess up he wouldn't have died to a titan. All you need to maintain in a frigate sized ship vs a titan is 100-150m/s tranversal and you're golden up to ridiculous ranges where transversal is less of a factor.

But killmails don't show what transversal, what distance or if the buzzard was even moving at all. (I mean it was decloaked and locked by a titan for one thing, so he ****** up pretty hard)

Then you have the 'orbit the anchor at 5k' tactic, which will never work against multiple titans because depending on how many titans there are, you're going to have low transversal to them at some point and you're dead for sure. Or there's the "BURN AWAY/BURN OUT OF BUBBLES" tactic which gives you huge sig or worse yet almost 0m/s transversal depending on the direction you burn/move.

As with any size guns, you have to get UNDER their tracking, bringing in tengus or drakes at 50 orbiting an anchor is just a dumb idea anyway,.

I guess I should repeat that, yeah tracking is kind of great right now, but it really is the only consistent counter to vastly large amounts of subcaps right now so 'fixing it' creates problems too.
Joker Deville
Perkone
Caldari State
#963 - 2012-03-13 23:21:40 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623314 Oh wait.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623239 Oh... Oh no.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/621694 Titans can't hit small ships.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625987 That looks like a drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625956 Clearly a dual LSE large sigged drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625985 :ohdear:
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/625893 Oh oh god.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/629988 Look at all the LSE's on that drake.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/629987 Another one of those drakes.
https://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/623437 No Problem At All.

Reposting these killmails for the titan thread. Anybody who cares enough can also hit the battles button for those kills, and see where fleets of hundreds were wiped out by 40 titans, while the titan group took generally 0 losses.

Anybody in this thread who thinks there wasn't a problem with titans has never spent a week having every single fight end with a titan blob being cyno'd in on your head the second you burn all the way over to wherever you're fighting, and hit grid. And being told to immediately turn around and go home, because there is nothing a subcap fleet can do to a titan blob but die as fast as the titans can cycle their guns.

Remember when they decided to park a small group of titans on a gate and just camp it with them, killing anything that came through? Yeah, no problem at all with titans.



:words:

XxTheKmanxX
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#964 - 2012-03-13 23:21:49 UTC
Acwron wrote:


You have no clue what happened but you speak like you actually know. Idiot? You're stupid enough to think you're smart. That wouldn't bother me but it seems you wanna show it to everybody. Congratz, now we all know you're just a pathetic loser. You're the only one who doesn't and will never know it. Cos you're too dumb. Fight titans and get the loss kill mail like a man.



you sound mad
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#965 - 2012-03-13 23:21:50 UTC
Acwron wrote:
You have no clue what happened but you speak like you actually know. Idiot? You're stupid enough to think you're smart. That wouldn't bother me but it seems you wanna show it to everybody. Congratz, now we all know you're just a pathetic loser. You're the only one who doesn't and will never know it. Cos you're too dumb. Fight titans and get the loss kill mail like a man.


I know that you lost a Nyx to a scam like a moron, and I know that you lost another Nyx trying to save a titan that was helplessly screwed. Poor eBay warrior.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#966 - 2012-03-13 23:23:35 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:


Damn goons are their low-end SP recruitment from the Something Awful Dot Com forums.

You shouldn't be allowed to live in nullsec unless your alliance has a 70million SP average!


This is the problem:


Right now, either side can win, as Goons have shown in Tenal.


Goons can win when Raidendot doesn't drop 70 Titans.

Grath, guy, really.

Stop.

Come on.
Machine Delta
Perkone
Caldari State
#967 - 2012-03-13 23:23:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:


Damn goons are their low-end SP recruitment from the Something Awful Dot Com forums.

You shouldn't be allowed to live in nullsec unless your alliance has a 70million SP average!


This is the problem:


Right now, either side can win, as Goons have shown in Tenal.


Raiden is done, they're literally losing space and moons in the EU tz, despite outnumbering your supercap fleet.

You beat them, admittedly Mittens hit the brakes hard on the campaign so it wouldn't look so obvious, but they're done effectively.

What this means is that in the current game environment, people who spend a ton of money on hardware can compete with people whos main resource are warm bodies.



This change won't change that, and thats why its infuriating. Its literally a change just for the sake of change, its ham handed, it physically fixes nothing at all.


Thats what the retards in the thread seem not to grasp, all they see is somebody posting against the nerf and assume they're mad about the nerf because it gimps their toy. Thats not whats upsetting those of us with any form of game knowledge.

Post change, Titans will still track BC's, BS, and shield tanked cruisers (poor onyx and broadswords) just like they do now, they'll hit just as hard, the only thing the change accomplishes is that the initial barrage comes about 20 seconds later than it comes now.


The main point of argument here is that many of us see this as CCP trying to push the game towards numbers, the CFC of course cries that this isn't the case, though they would, as numbers are their primary arsenal. They in turn attack our primary arsenal against their blob calling it 'unfair' that we hold so much power. But when questioned about why having more people should be the deciding factor over more money, they don't really have an answer. They call the titans invincible and are shown active counters that work just fine, and when you ask them what the counter is to massive numbers they have fantastical stories about 1200 man fleets that sit around waiting to get hit by 200 bombers.


The infuriating part is simply that this nerf doesn't DO anything to the titans against sub caps, it acutally HURTS them against caps, something the dev blog says at the outset they want the titans to be good against.



Why change them at all until you're ready to roll out the complete package in a revamp? I mean hell, make it one of the primary concerns of the June expansion, fixing titans into a new complete role. Not nerfing uselessly for the sake of a nerf just to show people you you're doing something that you won't come back to for 2 years.




This is effectively akin to CCP going "We don't like blobs, fleets are now limited to 50 members only, but we'll iterate on it later so that you can have our new vision of fleets, we don't know when, but we'll do it, we promise". You see, nothing would change really, its a bit more of a pain in the ass to basically achieve the same thing you have now.



Yeah but we get these GREAT crying effortposts from you out of this so I really am not seeing a downside here.
Win Sui
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#968 - 2012-03-13 23:24:59 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
EnderCapitalG wrote:


Damn goons are their low-end SP recruitment from the Something Awful Dot Com forums.

You shouldn't be allowed to live in nullsec unless your alliance has a 70million SP average!


This is the problem:


Right now, either side can win, as Goons have shown in Tenal.


Raiden is done, they're literally losing space and moons in the EU tz, despite outnumbering your supercap fleet.

You beat them, admittedly Mittens hit the brakes hard on the campaign so it wouldn't look so obvious, but they're done effectively.

What this means is that in the current game environment, people who spend a ton of money on hardware can compete with people whos main resource are warm bodies.



This change won't change that, and thats why its infuriating. Its literally a change just for the sake of change, its ham handed, it physically fixes nothing at all.


Thats what the retards in the thread seem not to grasp, all they see is somebody posting against the nerf and assume they're mad about the nerf because it gimps their toy. Thats not whats upsetting those of us with any form of game knowledge.

Post change, Titans will still track BC's, BS, and shield tanked cruisers (poor onyx and broadswords) just like they do now, they'll hit just as hard, the only thing the change accomplishes is that the initial barrage comes about 20 seconds later than it comes now.


The main point of argument here is that many of us see this as CCP trying to push the game towards numbers, the CFC of course cries that this isn't the case, though they would, as numbers are their primary arsenal. They in turn attack our primary arsenal against their blob calling it 'unfair' that we hold so much power. But when questioned about why having more people should be the deciding factor over more money, they don't really have an answer. They call the titans invincible and are shown active counters that work just fine, and when you ask them what the counter is to massive numbers they have fantastical stories about 1200 man fleets that sit around waiting to get hit by 200 bombers.


The infuriating part is simply that this nerf doesn't DO anything to the titans against sub caps, it acutally HURTS them against caps, something the dev blog says at the outset they want the titans to be good against.



Why change them at all until you're ready to roll out the complete package in a revamp? I mean hell, make it one of the primary concerns of the June expansion, fixing titans into a new complete role. Not nerfing uselessly for the sake of a nerf just to show people you you're doing something that you won't come back to for 2 years.




This is effectively akin to CCP going "We don't like blobs, fleets are now limited to 50 members only, but we'll iterate on it later so that you can have our new vision of fleets, we don't know when, but we'll do it, we promise". You see, nothing would change really, its a bit more of a pain in the ass to basically achieve the same thing you have now.


As far as it goes the real problem here is the whole moon and SOV system. Sov should act like terrain, providing tactical options to accomplish strategic goals, much like a river or mountain pass does. Instead it's currently a pre-notified winner takes all fight that rewards getting there "Firstest with the mostest". Titans DID need changing, GeneralDisturbed's KB post clearly shows why, but until the underlying Sov problems are fixed it's all kind of waffling. Titans were the counter to blobs, now blobs are going to have an edge - it's all due to a badly thought out and badly implemented territory model.

That said, Titan tracking needed changing - blapping blackbirds and rifters is stupid.
SuperBeastie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#969 - 2012-03-13 23:25:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
SuperBeastie wrote:
0 Trans = Dead. These changes do nothing to fix peoples stupidity


why don't you join PL about it lmao


you're a idiot changing the game to who ever brings more subcaps wins is not any better than who bring more super caps.

[center]SuperBeastie's Third Party Service My in-game Channel is Supers Third Party[/center]

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#970 - 2012-03-13 23:25:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
Acwron wrote:
You have no clue what happened but you speak like you actually know. Idiot? You're stupid enough to think you're smart. That wouldn't bother me but it seems you wanna show it to everybody. Congratz, now we all know you're just a pathetic loser. You're the only one who doesn't and will never know it. Cos you're too dumb. Fight titans and get the loss kill mail like a man.


I know that you lost a Nyx to a scam like a moron, and I know that you lost another Nyx trying to save a titan that was helplessly screwed. Poor eBay warrior.


it's not like vera cruz is known for their supercapital dominance anywhere

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#971 - 2012-03-13 23:26:12 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:
Andski wrote:
SuperBeastie wrote:
0 Trans = Dead. These changes do nothing to fix peoples stupidity


why don't you join PL about it lmao


you're a idiot changing the game to who ever brings more subcaps wins is not any better than who bring more super caps.


look at the sad test publord crying about his shiny new titan getting a temporary nerfbat ((

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#972 - 2012-03-13 23:26:57 UTC
Dez Affinity wrote:

I guess I should repeat that, yeah tracking is kind of great right now, but it really is the only consistent counter to vastly large amounts of subcaps right now so 'fixing it' creates problems too.

The CFC didn't exist in the form it exists in now until you guys decided to follow Billymerc in a hare-brained supercap heavy assault on VFK. Throwing 2000 people at that problem was the escalation counter. You adapted your titan fits to counter 2000 people.

Maybe next time don't force the issue and cause us to have to make lots of friends, because we're quite good at it.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#973 - 2012-03-13 23:27:24 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:
Andski wrote:
SuperBeastie wrote:
0 Trans = Dead. These changes do nothing to fix peoples stupidity


why don't you join PL about it lmao


you're a idiot changing the game to who ever brings more subcaps wins is not any better than who bring more super caps.


You seem really mad about this.

Should I get into jabber at work and troll you and your kin about it some more?

I mean, I spent 3 hours doing it today, including widotters and even other goons who are mentally ******** and think that their space pixels are more important than our subcap fleets.

Just say the word~
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#974 - 2012-03-13 23:28:27 UTC
Guys, they have more friends than me
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#975 - 2012-03-13 23:28:35 UTC
Nerf friends
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#976 - 2012-03-13 23:29:13 UTC
SuperBeastie wrote:
Andski wrote:
SuperBeastie wrote:
0 Trans = Dead. These changes do nothing to fix peoples stupidity


why don't you join PL about it lmao


you're a idiot changing the game to who ever brings more subcaps wins is not any better than who bring more super caps.


TEST is known far and wide for never using numbers to their advantage anywhere ever

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

XxTheKmanxX
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#977 - 2012-03-13 23:30:29 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Nerf friends

nerf life :(
GreGh Rakrot
Strix Ridens
#978 - 2012-03-13 23:30:57 UTC
Andski wrote:


Nobody wants titans to be POS ornaments, not even the CFC.

Did you not pay attention to the fact that there is an entire EXPANSION coming up focused on warfare?


Awesome, so you agree this nerfbat is not needed and that everything will be sorted out in this next expansion, titans and subcaps blobs being unstopable and sov mechanics being ****.

Its kind of funny that Im arguing for the balancing of titan tracking (in a reasonable manner, till the Warfare patch hits where we all count on CCP to make things right again) the way Goonswarm member suggested but other members keep trying to argue against it.

If you would really be against titans being useless you would want hotfix that doesnt makes them completely terrible while we wait for that next expansion, sadly this hotfix isnt that and many members of your alliance and powerblock acknowledged that in this thread but you and others like you just seem to see stuff in black and white.
EnderCapitalG
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#979 - 2012-03-13 23:31:51 UTC
GreGh Rakrot wrote:
Andski wrote:


Nobody wants titans to be POS ornaments, not even the CFC.

Did you not pay attention to the fact that there is an entire EXPANSION coming up focused on warfare?


Awesome, so you agree this nerfbat is not needed and that everything will be sorted out in this next expansion, titans and subcaps blobs being unstopable and sov mechanics being ****.

Its kind of funny that Im arguing for the balancing of titan tracking (in a reasonable manner, till the Warfare patch hits where we all count on CCP to make things right again) the way Goonswarm member suggested but other members keep trying to argue against it.

If you would really be against titans being useless you would want hotfix that doesnt makes them completely terrible while we wait for that next expansion, sadly this hotfix isnt that and many members of your alliance and powerblock acknowledged that in this thread but you and others like you just seem to see stuff in black and white.


lmbo
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#980 - 2012-03-13 23:32:28 UTC
EnderCapitalG wrote:
Guys, they have more friends than me


u have frends l0l