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Skill Queue Issues - 2017/06/09

First post First post First post
Author
Ebony Texas
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#41 - 2017-06-09 14:31:15 UTC
yea thank you falcon,

I wouldn't freak out like that unless it was due to my time being placed on hold while im training a high-end lvl 5 skill. which is synch'd with the rest of my accounts. thank you again for posting this message properly where all players of new eden can come and easily see there was a major issue.

o7
thank you again sir
Hothin
Page Family
#42 - 2017-06-09 14:37:31 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
Hothin wrote:
i personally just logged on & noticed the sp issue , i have multiple chars training on this account, i dont know when this started, but until now i have lost sp, i think we all should get some sp on everuy char on every account tbh


SP will likely be given to any character affected by this, only those with active skill queues rather than just every character on an account

to clarify what i meant . any char that was training so if you had 1 2 or 3 training they should get sp refunded
Firicel
Micul Siren
#43 - 2017-06-09 14:38:05 UTC
I want my SP back!
Firicel
Micul Siren
#44 - 2017-06-09 14:38:50 UTC
On all accounts.
Lquid Drisseg
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2017-06-09 14:40:08 UTC
Rexxar Santaro wrote:
Lquid Drisseg wrote:
This seems like a really really simple problem to fix going forward.

Why cant we just make this simple for everyone?

If you have skills in a queue, they train at the attribute level rate. If you "pause" your skillqueue or otherwise are not training anything and still subbed, just give accounts a calculated fair SP rate passively.

Just make SP accumulation a passive thing that you apply in chunks as you want to train skills.


It’s very hard, a nightmare, for a developer to program and synchronize both CPU-server with a DB-server, considering every skill queue is a server real time thread (with own list of different skills). Also, while everyone can interact with that thread through: subscriptions, plexes, attributes, implants, skill extractors, skill injectors. For sure there are running over 100,000 live threads!

Dynamic multithreading server programing is among hardest types. One bit of leaked memory (TRUE or FALSE) can turn into hundreds of Gigabytes of leaked memory in one hour. As a result – server shutdown or Try Catch exception, which will stop the problematic code.

To track and count the SP for everyone is possible after processing a gazzilion of data.


I am a software developer. This is not a hard problem to solve. They already have it solved. Skill training is already a thing. It would not be hard to add in a base level of training that occurs regardless of your queued skills and attribute levels.

Please don't claim this is a hard problem, especially when the vast majority of the actual hard work has already been implemented.
Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#46 - 2017-06-09 14:40:38 UTC
Firicel wrote:
I want my SP back!


Dude, looks like you aren't happy about what happened!
Assaj Ventress
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2017-06-09 14:41:08 UTC
Is it expected that API (EVEMon) still shows my queue is paused, but ingame it's running?
Cmdr Clawhammer
RHP Mining Company
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#48 - 2017-06-09 14:54:08 UTC
Assaj Ventress wrote:
Is it expected that API (EVEMon) still shows my queue is paused, but ingame it's running?

It takes a while until evemon shows your actual skill queue because of the api key refresh delay.
Assaj Ventress
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2017-06-09 14:57:26 UTC
Cmdr Clawhammer wrote:
Assaj Ventress wrote:
Is it expected that API (EVEMon) still shows my queue is paused, but ingame it's running?

It takes a while until evemon shows your actual skill queue because of the api key refresh delay.

I started it after checking ingame. I guess some API cache...
Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#50 - 2017-06-09 15:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexxar Santaro
Lquid Drisseg wrote:


I am a software developer. This is not a hard problem to solve. They already have it solved. Skill training is already a thing. It would not be hard to add in a base level of training that occurs regardless of your queued skills and attribute levels.

Please don't claim this is a hard problem, especially when the vast majority of the actual hard work has already been implemented.


I’m pointing that the server multithreading programing is very complicated and anything missed can turn into huge problems. It’s far away not like to client desktop or mobile apps, but nm.

The problem is most of those threads aren’t obviously predictable, based on some linear function, which you can apply additive to all data. It’s mostly random, which should take into consideration what everyone did the last 10 hours, including subscription gain/lost, plexes, skill injection, skill extraction, attribute changes. Maybe somebody get podded and was for 1 hour at station without any attribute implants active you know. It requires to analyze a lot of log records and recreate the story based on them.

I offered to grant to everyone a micro SkillInjector, as average SP for all accounts. Almost all will be happy and CCP will not waste time on this.
Ebony Texas
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#51 - 2017-06-09 15:13:15 UTC
Assaj Ventress wrote:
Is it expected that API (EVEMon) still shows my queue is paused, but ingame it's running?


EveMon itself seems to have been bugged ever since the introduction of mini-plex since it shows one of my accts expired although it was paid for via plex.

I did have the same issue once I found out the problem at hand. once I cleared its cache and restatred the program after awhile the que appeared training.. however I am at a lost of how much SP I lost during this script implementation yesterday..

so yea... ccp.. give us those lost training time..

you hit the omega's in your attempt to stop these cheaters.. why not just ban them?.. bring on the ban hammer!
Alura Eidolon
Lambent Enterprises
Virtue of Selfishness
#52 - 2017-06-09 15:16:15 UTC
I'm not sure giving out Skill injectors is the way to go mainly because of the variance. Someone with less than 5mil SP gets alot more of a boost than someone with over 80mil SP. Plus then you are getting a free skill injector that you can sell on the market making a profit for, potentially, a lot more SP than you lost.
Firicel
Micul Siren
#53 - 2017-06-09 15:26:29 UTC
Rexxar Santaro wrote:
Firicel wrote:
I want my SP back!


Dude, looks like you aren't happy about what happened!

come to think of it, I should be happy
happy that ccp reads the forums, how else would they find about their own screwups
Rexxar Santaro
Forex Corp
#54 - 2017-06-09 15:26:50 UTC
Alura Eidolon wrote:
I'm not sure giving out Skill injectors is the way to go mainly because of the variance. Someone with less than 5mil SP gets alot more of a boost than someone with over 80mil SP. Plus then you are getting a free skill injector that you can sell on the market making a profit for, potentially, a lot more SP than you lost.


Well, this special micro Skill Injector must have the average amount of SP which can be trained during the 10 hours (8hours IDK).

The injector should have blocked trading attributes: unable to trade on market or through contracting and must be connected to account like that starting one. Like some active goods have.

The amount of gained SP must be static – independent from currently capsuleer SP amount.
DiDDleR
Unity of Suns
Warped Intentions
#55 - 2017-06-09 15:33:01 UTC
Thank you Falcon - I thought I was going mad when I fired up EVEMon earlier and saw my training was "Paused"...
FlySilver
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2017-06-09 15:46:07 UTC
Rexxar Santaro wrote:
Lquid Drisseg wrote:


I am a software developer. This is not a hard problem to solve. They already have it solved. Skill training is already a thing. It would not be hard to add in a base level of training that occurs regardless of your queued skills and attribute levels.

Please don't claim this is a hard problem, especially when the vast majority of the actual hard work has already been implemented.


I’m pointing that the server multithreading programing is very complicated and anything missed can turn into huge problems. It’s far away not like to client desktop or mobile apps, but nm.

The problem is most of those threads aren’t obviously predictable, based on some linear function, which you can apply additive to all data. It’s mostly random, which should take into consideration what everyone did the last 10 hours, including subscription gain/lost, plexes, skill injection, skill extraction, attribute changes. Maybe somebody get podded and was for 1 hour at station without any attribute implants active you know. It requires to analyze a lot of log records and recreate the story based on them.

I offered to grant to everyone a micro SkillInjector, as average SP for all accounts. Almost all will be happy and CCP will not waste time on this.


I'm pointing that you obviously have no idea about multithreading programing. If you think it is very complicated you most likely have no experience in programming at all. I would even go as far as to say that all of the threads are predictable. The Reason it is that way, is "obviously", you code that Threads yourself. If you have to rely on other Threads you dont have written yourself you do not in any way expect those Threads to behave at all and work with them in a completely different way that has nothing to do with "multithreaded programing" in its basic meaning.

But to tackle the SP you might be surprise that "some linear function" is actually the way SP generation works. The only thing is it runs on Timers and will change its "linear" function between Timerticks. Obviously CCP allready did cover the Injecting/Extracting and unallocated SP Pool so it is highly unlikely it would need big changes except manipulating the timers.
And for changing the parameters of that "linear function" just try to think about what happens when you change your skillqeue manually or the learned skill switches during the time you are not logged in.

No matter if it would be possible to switch the system i dont like the way Skilling works in the first place with all the Implants.
I know its a you Risk something and get more Reward thing but the idea behind it is contrary to the EVE Gameplay in general.
How often did someone not go on a fleet because he had allready clonejumped and all. The Implants other thant the attribute ones themself would still be there but not tied to your skilling but rather the ship your using. And yes i know you can now hop into a empty Clone in a Citadel but it is a hazzle to do it.

So i propose getting rid of the Attributes in total, getting rid of the Attribute Implants and let us buy Skillaccelerators like CCP has allready introduced us to. And just let the SP go into the unallocated Pool.






Rancor Chelien
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#57 - 2017-06-09 16:29:54 UTC
I know what to do. Just run more badly written scripts on the production server, and everyone will completely forget about this skill training issue. Lol
Krytia Ernaga
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Digital Vendetta
#58 - 2017-06-09 16:42:01 UTC
How will accounts that had their SQ paused be identified? I saw this thread and went to check and had several SQs that have been paused, and partially trained skills removed, which accounts for a rather serious loss of SP.

Is there a forum / form that I need to file listing my SQs that were affected?

Please advise.

"Leave No Drone Behind" Program Manager

"Leave No Stripper Behind" Logo Advocate

When mining, make those rocks KRY!

Pidaro Tarkan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2017-06-09 16:47:29 UTC
Krytia Ernaga wrote:
How will accounts that had their SQ paused be identified? I saw this thread and went to check and had several SQs that have been paused, and partially trained skills removed, which accounts for a rather serious loss of SP.

Is there a forum / form that I need to file listing my SQs that were affected?

Please advise.



Yes ! what he said ^ X
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#60 - 2017-06-09 16:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Le Prospecteur wrote:
Joan Andedare wrote:
thank you for working on the issue.

and in the future please

  1. test **** like this before you **** with your players
  2. improve your communication. there should have been some notification in the laucher (and maybe even in game) ~10h ago.


Lose the attitude..

10 hours ago was the middle of the night..

10 hours ago was 8 in the morning and CCP has offices and ISD/GMs all over the world.

Lose the attitude if you have no clue. Roll

I, for one, thought I had gotten hacked or banned because all my accounts were not training anything and there was no information at all available on the issue except for a EN24 info with speculation about the reasons, which I only noticed by chance.

It's good that it gotten solved and the compensation for yet another mishap is appreciated, but Joan's points are very valid.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.