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Low-sec Hopes and Changes

Author
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#661 - 2017-03-29 14:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Because fixing that obviously addresses everything anyone ever wanted for LS..


Explain.


Do you not have the ability to understand irony, tin man? He is making fun of you.... Because in his opinion fixing jumpfreigthers will not fix all what is wrong with lowsec. Do you even English?


So it was bullshit.
Ok them.


No, he was calling you opinion bullshit, because it is very narrowminded to think that fixing jumpfreigthers will fix all the other problems of lowsec.

Basically you are making a solution considering only a specific subset of the problems (Which many find, is not a real problem and definitely not the biggest one). Solutions cannot be made in a vacuum, and you need to consider and include more of the problems with lowsec in your solution, to be taken serious.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Salvos Rhoska
#662 - 2017-03-29 14:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scialt wrote:
Snip.


Players will adapt.
The material will continue to flow.

LS cynoing is making a mockery of the system.

You present more gatecamps as bad thing.
It isnt. Because there will be more targets and competition both to hold gatecamps and to pass through them.
LS JF cynoing removes content from LS, as the JFs lol-cyno through/past it.

Most LS subcap entities can arrange their less voluminous material transfer past gatemcaps just fine as is.
Salvos Rhoska
#663 - 2017-03-29 14:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
sero Hita wrote:
No, he was calling you opinion bullshit, because it is very narrowminded to think that fixing jumpfreigthers will fix all the other problems of lowsec..


Nobody has claimed it would, least of all I.
So yes, its bullshit, since nobody has claimed that.

What "all other problems of lowsec" are you and he referring to?
Be specific.
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#664 - 2017-03-29 15:26:37 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Snip.


Players will adapt.
The material will continue to flow.

LS cynoing is making a mockery of the system.

You present more gatecamps as bad thing.
It isnt. Because there will be more targets and competition both to hold gatecamps and to pass through them.
LS JF cynoing removes content from LS, as the JFs lol-cyno through/past it.

Most LS subcap entities can arrange their less voluminous material transfer past gatemcaps just fine as is.


This is a thread about helping low sec.

Would players adapt to having difficulty moving through low sec? Sure.

They'll adapt by leaving low sec. Many FW participants will leave. Many low-sec pirates who don't camp and use FW space for PvP will leave. Most low-sec industrialists will leave. Most low sec anomaly/mission runners will leave.

While you may be morally offended by cynos in low... removing them ends up killing low-sec, not helping it. And the point of this thread isn't to deal with your beliefs about how the game SHOULD work... it's about helping to draw more people to low-sec. Your plan doesn't do that in any way.... it in fact would end up driving everyone who doesn't camp gates to reside somewhere else.

So... your idea simply sucks as a way to draw more players to reside in low-sec space by making their living experience there suck (again... other than gate campers).
Salvos Rhoska
#665 - 2017-03-29 15:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scialt wrote:
Snip


Removing LS JF cynoing = more gate transit = more gate content.

What is the problem again?

Are you trying to argue that JFs lol-cynoing through LS is making current gate transit life easier somehow?
That is ridiculous.

LS JFs lol-cyno past gatecamps.
LS gate transit already has to deal with gatecamps.

You just dont want to put in the effort/precautions of gate transit, and prefer lol-cynoing past it all.

People wont move out of LS, more people will move in, both to facilitate logistics and to profit from the enormous wealth of over-flying JF material now brought down to gate transit.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#666 - 2017-03-29 16:21:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Snip


Removing LS JF cynoing = more gate transit = more gate content.

What is the problem again?

Are you trying to argue that JFs lol-cynoing through LS is making current gate transit life easier somehow?
That is ridiculous.

LS JFs lol-cyno past gatecamps.
LS gate transit already has to deal with gatecamps.

You just dont want to put in the effort/precautions of gate transit, and prefer lol-cynoing past it all.

People wont move out of LS, more people will move in, both to facilitate logistics and to profit from the enormous wealth of over-flying JF material now brought down to gate transit.


I have yet to meet a person, who think doing logistics is fun. And increasing the hassle of it is your solution to help lowsec. Who will move to lowsec to do this increased logistics and ganking? The people in highsec? I am pretty sure they are there to avoid that stuff. Nullseccers? I think we don't want to depopulate null more than it is.. So do you have a real suggestion to help low.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Salvos Rhoska
#667 - 2017-03-29 16:27:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
sero Hita wrote:
Snip


You completely ignored my post to you, and instead answered a post addressed to someone else.

That **** doesnt fly.

Do your due diligence.

Dont expect an answer to your questions till you have answered mine.

PS: Lol claiming logistics/hauling/trading isnt fun, when thousands do it daily, enjoy it and profit from it.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#668 - 2017-03-29 18:31:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
Snip


You completely ignored my post to you, and instead answered a post addressed to someone else.

That **** doesnt fly.

Do your due diligence.

Dont expect an answer to your questions till you have answered mine.

PS: Lol claiming logistics/hauling/trading isnt fun, when thousands do it daily, enjoy it and profit from it.


That's the pot calling kettle black mate as I'm still waiting on you answering questions I asked you like 8 pages back which you completely ignored

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#669 - 2017-03-29 18:34:40 UTC
I would be OK with removing cyno's from low if we can light them in 0.5 space. Salvos gets his cyno free low, and the null alliances get to continue jumping right past low. Seems legit. Or maybe instead of lighting them all 0.5 systems have a NPC cyno beacon?

Also, I wanted to point out that rying to force a low sec hub to grow by cutting off cynos in low would probably create a hub in NPC null before low, since we can still cyno into NPC null, and move stuff there using black frog / PushX / etc.

Hell, it might even lead to the blue donut moving corp (tm) where everyone stuffs their JF alt so they can jump into and out of the NPC null hub without worrying about neuts in local.

Salvos Rhoska
#670 - 2017-03-29 18:48:41 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Snip


A wild alt appears.
Salvos Rhoska
#671 - 2017-03-29 18:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
the null alliances get to continue jumping right past low.


No.
This must end.

They can gate transit through it like everyone else if they want access to HS.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#672 - 2017-03-29 19:00:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Snip


A wild alt appears.


Is that all you got man, lm alt now Shocked whose alt do you think I am?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#673 - 2017-03-29 19:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
Is that all you got man


Thats all you had.

You presumed to answer to a post addressed to someone else, yet did not answer the questions therein.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#674 - 2017-03-29 19:11:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Since you're back here at this thread, where is your evidence that proves this claim?

Are you going to provide it, or just continue to argue for something based on lies?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#675 - 2017-03-29 19:15:04 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
the null alliances get to continue jumping right past low.


No.
This must end.

They can gate transit through it like everyone else if they want access to HS.


And direct connections between high and null?

Also, what about all the null systems within jump range of the Jita undock? Seems kind of silly that a ships jump range is 10 ly unless you are in high sec, then its 10 ly or the nearest low sec system.

Rhea jump range from Jita

Geminate

Vale of the Silent

Tribute



Salvos Rhoska
#676 - 2017-03-29 19:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Since you're back here at this thread, where is your evidence that proves this claim?

Are you going to provide it, or just continue to argue for something based on lies?


LS PvE content does not require caps.
LS hauling does not require cynos.
LS gatecamps do not require caps.
LS cynos bypass LS gates.
NS has far more caps than LS.

Your move.

PS: Lol at me "being back" in this thread. I never left.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#677 - 2017-03-29 19:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Since you're back here at this thread, where is your evidence that proves this claim?

Are you going to provide it, or just continue to argue for something based on lies?


LS PvE content does not require caps.
LS hauling does not require cynos.
LS gatecamps do not require caps.
LS cynos bypass LS gates.
NS has far more caps than LS.

Your move.

PS: Lol at me "being back" in this thread. I never left.

That is no evidence, just more typical rambling.

Show us the kills that demonstrate that cynos strongly favour NS neighbours over LS. Evidence, not just further opinion. If it is "strongly favouring NS", it should be easy to prove.

Where's the evidence?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#678 - 2017-03-29 19:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
And direct connections between high and null?

Also, what about all the null systems within jump range of the Jita undock? Seems kind of silly that a ships jump range is 10 ly unless you are in high sec, then its 10 ly or the nearest low sec system.


Those are geographic anomalies which have systemically aided the Jita abomination.

They are however beyond the purview of this thread, as there is no LS intervening there.
Or rather, obviate the point that LS is not functioning as a barrier between HS and NS.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#679 - 2017-03-29 19:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
the null alliances get to continue jumping right past low.


No.
This must end.

They can gate transit through it like everyone else if they want access to HS.


And direct connections between high and null?

Also, what about all the null systems within jump range of the Jita undock? Seems kind of silly that a ships jump range is 10 ly unless you are in high sec, then its 10 ly or the nearest low sec system.

Rhea jump range from Jita

Geminate

Vale of the Silent

Tribute




That's his thing, this isn't about stopping NS from jumping straight past LS. As you've just shown, it'll still be totally possible, even direct from Jita. There are other HS systems you could go to that would allow you to totally bypass LS as well.

There'd still be nearly 0 need to go through LS with his dumb proposal. It's just Salvos being butthurt over NS groups and wanting to destroy them in a stupid way that will be ineffective and only destroy LS industry and markets and remove content from LS.

All based on lies of his.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#680 - 2017-03-29 19:31:58 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Where's the evidence?

This isn't a dissertation.

If you can refute any of the observations I made, go ahead and do so.