These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Low-sec Hopes and Changes

Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#621 - 2017-03-27 21:14:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cynos provide far more content then they remove.


JFs lol-cynoing through LS with billions in cargo provide no content to LS.

Just provides convenient profit for entities running them, with a negligible chance of interception in LS.


It's like you don't understand that there won't be content if the goods don't reach the destination. The reason why so much stuff move between HS and NS is because that stuff gets used. The ship gets flown, the ammo gets shot, the fitting get fit, the mats gets processed and all of it get exploded at the end of the whole process.


Ofc I understand that.
Makes you rich for leveraging HS markets (Jita) with NS benefits.

But does this justify lol-cynoing through LS in 7+bil JFs + billions in cargo value with almost no chance of interception?

That NS resources can access HS markets (Jita/Forge) and back by passing LS with little to no risk of interception?

In HS CONCORD covers you. In LS you lol-cyno past. In NS either blue up, or lol-cyno some more.

Wtf is then even the point of LS?

Its made a mockery of, daily, by billions upon billions in cynoing value over their heads that they cant aggress.




Crap I just realized what you are really up against.

When you said "Concord protects you in HS" I heard the autism of a million gankers cry out all at once.

(OK maybe there are not that many but they sure make as much noise)

Then I realized....

It's not NS that would most vehemently cry and scream over the end of lol-cyno through LS. Heck, the NS entities would be kings for being the only ones who could field the protection convoys and logistics. If even just one could do it, they would be on top.

Everybody else loses the road to Jita but they have to survive "out there".

What are you really up against here? Hint: the same old trolls that haunt every ganking thread.

Because if the lol-cyno was gone, then just about every JF undocking from Jita while there still was a Jita would be protected by a fleet.
Thus that kind of player, being no less the entitled highsec bearbears than those they prey upon (and claim they are the polar opposite of), would take a huge hit to their shtick.

If these forums were not so dead they would be brigading with alts by now.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Salvos Rhoska
#622 - 2017-03-27 21:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Crap I just realized what you are really up against.


Im trying to save the game, (pretentious as that sounds) by offering an option that is conducive to EVE and sector mechanics.

Jita/Forge numbers are insane, completely irrational, and a clear indicator there are systemic problems.

Player Empires rise and fall, over and over, yet Jita (an NPC system that already has unprecedented restrictions such as no POS/Citadels) just gets larger and larger.

As in my precious post, I am advocating that HS-NS trade with LS instead, inbetween.
Inorder for that to to happen, lol-cynoing in LS must end.

LS is the missing link.

LS can internally provide much of the material NS otherwise needs from HS, and it can house trade/warehouse hubs to facilitate exchange between HS and NS as carried by ALL of EVEs players, rather than HS-NS exchange currently bypassing LS with impunity to Jita.

The first and seminal point of trade/contact/exchange between HS and NS, should be LS, as the intermediary zone.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
What are you really up against here? Hint: the same old trolls that haunt every ganking thread.

Its far more, and worse than that.
These forums are a metagame, and we are dealing with paid shills.
Its their job and purpose here to aggress opposition to their interests.
Thats well and fine, cos this is EVE, but it does mean there is no reasoning with them except steamrolling over them.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#623 - 2017-03-27 22:02:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Its far more, and worse than that.
These forums are a metagame, and we are dealing with paid shills.
Its their job and purpose here to aggress opposition to their interests.
Thats well and fine, cos this is EVE, but it does mean there is no reasoning with them except steamrolling over them.


more like telling retards how ******** ideas they propose are

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#624 - 2017-03-27 22:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Its far more, and worse than that.
These forums are a metagame, and we are dealing with paid shills.
Its their job and purpose here to aggress opposition to their interests.
Thats well and fine, cos this is EVE, but it does mean there is no reasoning with them except steamrolling over them.


more like telling retards how ******** ideas they propose are


Hmm...

Do you legit claim I am a retards?

("retards" is the only conjugation that bypasses censure).

Wtf is your purpose here with posts like this that ignored my content?
Is this the best you have, and which only supports my observation?
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#625 - 2017-03-27 22:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Scialt
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scialt wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Meanwhile billions upon billions in isk of HS-NS JFs are lol-cynoing right over your head.

I simply don't think that's a problem in need of a solution.


Alrighty then. I do think its a problem, and Jita/Forge is the result.


Your solution destroys the part of low-sec that I enjoy. I'm not in favor of creating more blob combat... really anywhere. Certainly not in low-sec. That's what you're doing.

You're trying to destroy low-sec and turn it into a gatecamp.
Salvos Rhoska
#626 - 2017-03-27 23:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Scialt wrote:
You're trying to destroy low-sec and turn it into a gatecamp.

Wut.

As I outlined in another post, its better to turn LS into an intermediary trade hub.
LS can internally produce/source most of NS needs, and can facilitate non-cyno delivery/storing/trading of product from both HS and NS to LS stations/Citadels for the rest.

LS doesnt have bubbles, hence you dont need cynos to bypass gatecamps.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#627 - 2017-03-28 03:46:58 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Its far more, and worse than that.
These forums are a metagame, and we are dealing with paid shills.
Its their job and purpose here to aggress opposition to their interests.
Thats well and fine, cos this is EVE, but it does mean there is no reasoning with them except steamrolling over them.



Indeed. This is why no game company should ever direct the game based on player feedback or opinions. The same people using the meta game will cite all kinds of examples of "tyranny" where a game company was monolithic and unyielding. But it would not have mattered if the product managers paid attention. That is, if you are going to be king, you best be a good one lest everybody knows where to find your neck.

The only metrics that should have mattered are the balance metrics, and a game system such as this has tracking on that level built into it. There was never any need to ask anybody anything regarding balance.

The worst end of it is that they will respond to both ends of the spectrum that work towards the same goals: you end up with both the bad guys and the carebears wanting an easy game (while pointing the finger elsewhere of course).

People speak of nerfs to "content" (PVP) but PVe also gets nerfed, even by default when it's neglected in light of player perfection, like Sansha throwing itself at incursions endlessly without new tactics (or just plain giving up). The better days of Eve were actually the pre-incursion days and before exploration was turned into just plain predictable farming. Easier PVe has done more damage than ganks.

CSM should be disbanded and the only thing the devs should want to hear about are bugs.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#628 - 2017-03-28 04:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cynos provide far more content then they remove.


JFs lol-cynoing through LS with billions in cargo provide no content to LS.

Just provides convenient profit for entities running them, with a negligible chance of interception in LS.

The ships they carry do.

I am amazed at your inability to grasp even basics.

Without those ships being moved, content dries up.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#629 - 2017-03-28 08:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cynos provide far more content then they remove.


JFs lol-cynoing through LS with billions in cargo provide no content to LS.

Just provides convenient profit for entities running them, with a negligible chance of interception in LS.

The ships they carry do.

I am amazed at your inability to grasp even basics.

Without those ships being moved, content dries up.


Placing a rock in a river, does not stop the river. It simply flows around it.
Content, like said river, will always take the path of least resistance.

Its perfectly sustainable to run cargo through LS gates, rather than over them with JF cynos.
Especially since LS doesnt have bubbles to hamper that.
Hell, it even has gateguns to defend gate transit.

LS can become an intermediary sub-cap trading point to both HS and NS.
The materials NS needs, can be sourced locally in LS, or shipped into LS for transfer.
The Forge is not the only region you can manufacture in.
Jita is not the only trade hub.

The current situation of billions upon countless billions in value effectively by-passing LS by lol-cynoing is ridiculous.
It makes LS redundant and pointless. From the perspective of cynos, LS might as well not exist.

Its fly-over country. JFs peer down at it as if from an airplane, at the tiny LS ants, idly wondering what the silly things are doing down there, safely beyond their reach, whilst enjoying complementary peanuts and beverages.

You present that I am so naive as to not understand what the lol-cynoing past LS is enabling in terms of "content" for NS access to HS markets.That is obviously false, as the entire premise behind my proposal is addressed at exactly that and its repercussions.

You really should try reading more accurately. Ive addressed these issues several times over already.
I and the discussion are already way ahead of you. Start catching up, or are you really this slow.
Green Cobra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2017-03-28 11:18:58 UTC
Low sec is fine as is, it's a lot better now than it was a few years ago and you make more isk in low sec than high sec.
As it is now it's right between high sec and null sec as it should be.

If you can't make a bil isk per day in low sec your are doing something wrong... Idea

Either find a few nice quite low sec systems or join a larger NBSI low sec corp/alliance.
Salvos Rhoska
#631 - 2017-03-28 11:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Green Cobra wrote:
Low sec is fine as is, it's a lot better now than it was a few years ago and you make more isk in low sec than high sec.
As it is now it's right between high sec and null sec as it should be.

If you can't make a bil isk per day in low sec your are doing something wrong... Idea

Either find a few nice quite low sec systems or join a larger NBSI low sec corp/alliance.


I agree LS local content is fine.
The local DEDs, anomalies, L5 missions, mineral/ice resources etc are fine.
(Data/Relic are a bit weak, but that is an incentive to run them in NS)

The primary problem is JFs lol-cynoing past LS between HS-NS.
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#632 - 2017-03-28 12:32:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
...and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Lol wat?

Cynos in lowsec favours NS capitals? Do you even follow what happens in the game?

This should be good. Post your evidence of NS groups being favoured by their ability to jump capitals into LS. I bet for every LS group loss you can pull out, I can pull out at least 10 losses by NS groups instead.

LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#633 - 2017-03-28 12:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


So why then are JFs cynoing nonstop over LS between NS-HS?

Your shilling is getting tiresome and all too obvious.

Use your brain. Troll better.
You are way behind.

Bad move completely ignoring my previous post to you.
That reddit-tier bullshit doesnt fly here.

Your cover is blown.

Protip: JFs are caps.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#634 - 2017-03-28 12:56:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


So why then are JFs cynoing nonstop over LS between NS-HS?

Your shilling is getting tiresome and all too obvious.

Use your brain. Troll better.
You are way behind.

Bad move completely ignoring my previous post to you.
That reddit-tier bullshit doesnt fly here.

Your cover is blown.

Protip: JFs are caps.

JFs are not Capitals.

But, post your evidence of this advantage that NS groups have over LS by being able to jump capitals into lowsec. I bet you can't because you don't know what you are talking about.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#635 - 2017-03-28 13:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


So why then are JFs cynoing nonstop over LS between NS-HS?

Your shilling is getting tiresome and all too obvious.

Use your brain. Troll better.
You are way behind.

Bad move completely ignoring my previous post to you.
That reddit-tier bullshit doesnt fly here.

Your cover is blown.

Protip: JFs are caps.

JFs are not Capitals.

But, post your evidence of this advantage that NS groups have over LS by being able to jump capitals into lowsec. I bet you can't because you don't know what you are talking about.


JFs are caps.

Are you seriously trying to claim LS can field more caps than NS?
NS caps can drop on LS and even gate back out, whereas LS cap drops in NS must deal with bubbles for non-cyno exit.

Your entire premise is ridiculous.

Furthernore, none of this refutes the fact cynoing JFs are making a mockery of LS.

You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
And again you ignored the posts to you, shill.

This isnt reddit. You will be called to answer.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#636 - 2017-03-28 13:08:40 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


So why then are JFs cynoing nonstop over LS between NS-HS?

Your shilling is getting tiresome and all too obvious.

Use your brain. Troll better.
You are way behind.

Bad move completely ignoring my previous post to you.
That reddit-tier bullshit doesnt fly here.

Your cover is blown.

Protip: JFs are caps.

JFs are not Capitals.

But, post your evidence of this advantage that NS groups have over LS by being able to jump capitals into lowsec. I bet you can't because you don't know what you are talking about.


JFs are caps.

Are you seriously trying to claim LS can field more caps than NS?
NS caps can drop on LS and even gate back out, whereas LS cap drops in NS must deal with bubbles for non-cyno exit.

Your entire premise is ridiculous.

Furthernore, none of this refutes the fact cynoing JFs are making a mockery of LS.

You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
And again you ignored the posts to you, shill.

This isnt reddit. You will be called to answer.

Post your evidence.

You made a claim. Prove it. Otherwise, it's like all your other arguments. Just made up in your head and no reflection of what happens in the game.

So put up or shut up.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#637 - 2017-03-28 13:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
You made a claim.


No.

YOU made the claim that LS can field more caps and wreck NS drops.
Not me. YOU.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.

Go ahead and substantiate that claim.

Im transitioning from considering you a shill, to you actually being this stupid.
Your post history certainly supports that.
Shills atleast have some skill and brains, you however...

And all of this sidelining the core issue, that bypassing LS with lol-cyno JFs is a piece of cake.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#638 - 2017-03-28 13:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
You made a claim.


No.

YOU made the claim that LS can field more caps and wreck NS drops.
Not me. YOU.

Once again, bullshit from the biggest bullshitter in the forum.

your claim is that NS has an advantage over LS.

Post #631:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Prove it. Otherwise, as usual, you are full of ****.

I've already said, that for every LS loss you can post cause by a NS group with capitals, I'll post 10 that are the other way. You simply can't prove what you say.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#639 - 2017-03-28 13:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
You made a claim.


No.

YOU made the claim that LS can field more caps and wreck NS drops.
Not me. YOU.

Once again, bullshit from the biggest bullshitter in the forum.

your claim is that NS has an advantage over LS.

Post #631:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Prove it. Otherwise, as usual, you are full of ****.


Caps are not required to clear LS local content.
Cynos also are not necessary, due to lack of bubbles on gate transit.

NS has far more cap capacity, than LS.
NS furthermore, can cyno into LS and gate back out.
Whereas a LS cap fleet cynoing into NS must deal with bubbles to gate to LS.

Claim substantiated and answered.

Now its your turn to substantiate your claim:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how NS groups have their ass handed to them each and everytime (whenever) they jump into LS.
(This would include each and every JF from NS into LS getting its ass handed to it).

I look forward to how you explain/justify that ridiculous, false argument.

Meanwhile, there is untold billions in HS-NS transit value in JFs lol-cynoing past LS even as this thread continues.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#640 - 2017-03-28 13:33:41 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
You made a claim.


No.

YOU made the claim that LS can field more caps and wreck NS drops.
Not me. YOU.

Once again, bullshit from the biggest bullshitter in the forum.

your claim is that NS has an advantage over LS.

Post #631:
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.

Prove it. Otherwise, as usual, you are full of ****.


Caps are not required to clear LS local content.
Cynos also are not necessary, due to lack of bubbles on gate transit.

NS has far more cap capacity, than LS.
NS furthermore, can cyno into LS and gate back out.
Whereas a LS cap fleet cynoing into NS must deal with bubbles to gate to LS.

Claim substantiated and answered.

You haven't substantiated with anything other than fiction.

Show us the kills Salvos. Put evidence, not opinion.

If what you claim is true, it'll be easy to substantiate. Otherwise, you are full of ****.

I already k ow which it is.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."