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Low-sec Hopes and Changes

Author
Rotho Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#641 - 2017-03-28 13:34:25 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Placing a rock in a river, does not stop the river. It simply flows around it.
Content, like said river, will always take the path of least resistance.

This is the underlying flaw in your suggestions.

Your suggestion is not a rock. It's closer a dam.

And content is not a lifeless river. If you dam it, the content that would be trapped behind it would decide that the river isn't working for them so rather than busting through the damn, they'll fork off and go elsewhere.

All your suggestions seem to be about forcing people to go somewhere they don't want to be. Focus instead of making LS the place they want to be. Otherwise people will just burn out on shipping to high sec.

I understand the frustration with JFs but this would just make the cost of living in NS higher since shipments will require more pilots and planning. Increasing the cost of living and inconvenience in null just makes it less appealing and you'll have more PVEers living in high sec.

Will there be more PVP as a result? Maybe. But I don't see pirates successfully popping any freighters all that often. NS alliances are pretty well organized and they won't take so much isk worth of cargo through anywhere they wouldn't be able to easily clear.
Salvos Rhoska
#642 - 2017-03-28 13:37:17 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Snip


Show me how:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each JF from NS gets its ass handed to it by LS.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#643 - 2017-03-28 13:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Snip


Show me how:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each JF from NS gets its ass handed to it by LS.

Jump Freighters are not capitals and that has nothing to do with your bullshit claim.

You can try to change the subject to divert away from your complete inability to post any evidence to support what you claim, but it won't work.

Post the kills Salvos. Post the evidence that supports your claim.

As before, put up, or shut up.

Edit:
Try to start here with Carriers if it will be easy for you. Go show us all the huge advantage that NS groups have over LS groups when it comes to fielding capitals in lowsec:

https://zkillboard.com/group/547/losses/lowsec/

As stated before, for every loss by a LS group to a NS capital, I'll post 10 that are the other way.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#644 - 2017-03-28 13:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Rotho Ataru wrote:
Your suggestion is not a rock. It's closer a dam.


I considered that extension of the analogy before I submitted the post.

Its not a dam, because it doesnt stop the river.

Its not an impassable obstacle to the flow.

Transit is still possible with non-cyno shipments.
(Which admittedly may be analogous to limited outlets through a dam)

The change does not prevent material transport in LS, nor between HS-NS.
Salvos Rhoska
#645 - 2017-03-28 13:48:37 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each and every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#646 - 2017-03-28 13:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each and every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it.

Jump Freighters are not Capitals and that has nothing to do with your bullshit claim.

Prove what you claimed. You aren't going to take this off track.

Prove it, or don't prove it. Can't prove it is the conclusion.

You're here peddling lies and using them as a basis to support your dumb idea. Lies are still just lies. They dont support anything but the opposite of what they say.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#647 - 2017-03-28 14:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
You're here peddling lies and using them as a basis to support your dumb idea. Lies are still just lies. They dont support anything but the opposite of what they say.


Im gonna go full Tippia on you.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Prove to me that every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it in LS.

PS: JFs are capitals. They are the freighter direct equivalent in the spectrum of hull categories.
PPS: Meanwhile we discuss, billions in isk is JF lol-cynoing through LS between HS-NS.

Inb4 random Shae alt shows up to misdirect.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#648 - 2017-03-28 15:34:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each and every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it.


"3 days - 100 Billion of Freighters" - Tiky Mikk

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#649 - 2017-03-28 15:53:10 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each and every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it.


"3 days - 100 Billion of Freighters" - Tiky Mikk


And what about the 99.9% rest of JF cyno transit through LS?

See what I mean?
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#650 - 2017-03-28 15:55:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
LS groups hand NS their ass whenever they jump into LS.


Show me how each and every JF from NS gets its ass handed to it.


"3 days - 100 Billion of Freighters" - Tiky Mikk


And what about the 99.9% rest of JF cyno transit through LS?

See what I mean?


nobody cares about them otherwise we would all be in supers doing the same

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#651 - 2017-03-28 15:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
nobody cares about them otherwise we would all be in supers doing the same


Wat?

Seriously, wtf is this nonsense supposed to mean?

This is pathetic. You arent even trying.
Charley Varrick
State War Academy
Caldari State
#652 - 2017-03-28 16:05:53 UTC
I admit I know next to nothing of jump freighter mechanics but I was under the impression that they couldn't jump from null to high all in one jump... that it took a few jumps with stops in low along the way. Just trying to understand what all the fuss is about.
Salvos Rhoska
#653 - 2017-03-28 16:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Charley Varrick wrote:
I admit I know next to nothing of jump freighter mechanics but I was under the impression that they couldn't jump from null to high all in one jump... that it took a few jumps with stops in low along the way. Just trying to understand what all the fuss is about.


In some rare places, they can cyno past LS altogether.
Elsewhere, they can cyno to stations/citadels for added safety, or to anywhere in space within range.

In anycase, gatecamps are not an issue for cyno transit.

Its almost impossible to intercept a well run JF cyno based passage through LS.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#654 - 2017-03-28 18:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
nobody cares about them otherwise we would all be in supers doing the same


Wat?

Seriously, wtf is this nonsense supposed to mean?

This is pathetic. You arent even trying.


Look man, if people of lowsec really cared about killing jump freighters we would be sitting on the undock of every midpoint point station alpha'ing freighters with fighter bombers, the thing is nobody really cares as we have better things to do. Sorry you can't grasp that but you dont live or contribute to Lowsec so it's understandable.

They don't lol-cyno, they cyno in because we let them

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#655 - 2017-03-28 22:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Charley Varrick wrote:
I admit I know next to nothing of jump freighter mechanics but I was under the impression that they couldn't jump from null to high all in one jump... that it took a few jumps with stops in low along the way. Just trying to understand what all the fuss is about.

No, they can't.

It's not possible to light a cyno in highsec, so any return jump journey from null to highsec must involve lowsec (except for a couple of nullsec systems that have highsec connections directly).

You cyno to a system with a highsec connection and then warp to gate and jump. In some cases you can make that in a single jump, in other cases it requires multiple jumps in null and/or in lowsec. Citadels have made it easier to do in one jump. It's pretty safe if you know what you are doing, but plenty make mistakes:

https://zkillboard.com/group/902/losses/lowsec/

Far from impossible to kill them if you want to.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#656 - 2017-03-29 13:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
It took only 30 pages to completely lock entire discussion around the matter which, of course, is the main problem that poisons existence of everyone who lives or visits LS: null guys haul their stuff through LS via JFs. Because fixing that obviously addresses everything anyone ever wanted for LS.

I take off my hat in the face of such persistence.
Salvos Rhoska
#657 - 2017-03-29 14:12:51 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Because fixing that obviously addresses everything anyone ever wanted for LS..


Explain.
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
#658 - 2017-03-29 14:27:07 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Scialt wrote:
You're trying to destroy low-sec and turn it into a gatecamp.

Wut.

As I outlined in another post, its better to turn LS into an intermediary trade hub.
LS can internally produce/source most of NS needs, and can facilitate non-cyno delivery/storing/trading of product from both HS and NS to LS stations/Citadels for the rest.

LS doesnt have bubbles, hence you dont need cynos to bypass gatecamps.



Shutting down travel in an area does not turn it into a trade hub. It does the opposite. Increasing gate camps shuts down travel. There aren't really any sites resembling trade hubs in low sec now WITH the ability to JF to them to keep them supplied. If one were to start without JF's... it would get camped and die almost immediately.

LS still has warp scramblers and interceptors. Plenty of gate camps capture plenty of ships without bubbles. The thing that hinders shipping from null to high sec also hinders non-shipping travel in low sec. Just think about it for a few minutes. The only result of your suggestion are a big increase in gate camps and a big decrease in EVERYTHING ELSE that happens in low-sec.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#659 - 2017-03-29 14:35:10 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Because fixing that obviously addresses everything anyone ever wanted for LS..


Explain.


Do you not have the ability to understand irony, tin man? He is making fun of you.... Because in his opinion fixing jumpfreigthers will not fix all what is wrong with lowsec. Do you even English?

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Salvos Rhoska
#660 - 2017-03-29 14:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
sero Hita wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Because fixing that obviously addresses everything anyone ever wanted for LS..


Explain.


Do you not have the ability to understand irony, tin man? He is making fun of you.... Because in his opinion fixing jumpfreigthers will not fix all what is wrong with lowsec. Do you even English?


So it was bullshit.
Ok them.

Nobody has claimed removing cynos from Ls will fix "everything".

Sarcasm is the sister of lies.
Only a weak and fearful mind hides what it means, rather that stating it clearly and bravely.