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Low-sec Hopes and Changes

Author
Salvos Rhoska
#701 - 2017-03-29 20:00:14 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Yes I did and I have absolutely no problem with that.


You have no problem with a a single NPC HS region and system housing the overwhelming majority of trade and production THROUGHOUT EVE.

Are we even playing the same game?
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#702 - 2017-03-29 20:53:48 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Yes I did and I have absolutely no problem with that.


You have no problem with a a single NPC HS region and system housing the overwhelming majority of trade and production THROUGHOUT EVE.

Are we even playing the same game?


I effectively have no problem with that and we are indeed playing the same game. Well, I think since I can't verify if you do actually play EVE...
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#703 - 2017-03-29 22:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
your claims are lies.


Prove that.



Despite being asked multiple times to show evidence that proves your claim, you haven't.

That is proof enough. No evidence available is itself proof that your claims cannot be supported and are nothing but lies.

You could easily show that conclusion is incorrect by posting the evidence, in the form of killmails that supports your claim in post #631. You haven't been able to.

If it is "strongly favouring" NS neighbours, that should be easy. I stand by my claim that for every 1 killmail you can post of a LS group losing a capital in LS to a NS group, I can post 10 that are the other way around.

If I'm wrong, you should be able to post a tonne of killmails that support your claim and I won't be able to respond to them with 10 that are the reverse of what you say. So far, you haven't even posted 1.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#704 - 2017-03-30 06:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
your claims are lies.


Prove that.

If it is "strongly favouring" NS neighbours, that should be easy. I stand by my claim that for every 1 killmail you can post of a LS group losing a capital in LS to a NS group, I can post 10 that are the other way around.


You are inferring things that have not been said.
You immediately assumed "strongly favouring" meant only current rates of LS cap PvP.

NS lol-cynos its JFs past LS.
NS doesnt care what you do in LS, nor have interest in LS cap PvP as long as they can continue doing so.

As others have pointed out, NS can flood LS with fleets should it wish to do so.
Currently they have no interest in LS, except as a fly-over sector to and from HS.
Salvos Rhoska
#705 - 2017-03-30 06:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Yes I did and I have absolutely no problem with that.


You have no problem with a a single NPC HS region and system housing the overwhelming majority of trade and production THROUGHOUT EVE?


I effectively have no problem with that


What do you mean by "effectively"?

Do you "effectively" have no problem with it because it is convenient/beneficial for you?

Do you acknowledge that what is good for the game, and what is good for you personally, are two separate issues?

Frostys Virpio wrote:
It's actually pretty realistic for trade to centralize in a hub making it efficient for everyone.

There is not even one instance IRL of there ever having been a global trade/production hub in proportion to the scale of Jita/Forge.
Free market systems abhor this kind of centralisation, as competition should constantly erode it and diversify it.
This demonstrates that EVE is infact not a free market, and that there are systemic issues which disable competition.
The massive volume of material flowing between NS and HS by means of lol-cynoing past LS being one such.

Jita/Forge trade/production levels should never have even been possible in EVE.
Its an abomination, especially in an NPC HS sector/system.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#706 - 2017-03-30 06:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
You are inferring things that have not been said.
You immediately assumed "strongly favouring" meant only current rates of LS cap PvP.

NS lol-cynos its JFs past LS.
NS doesnt care what you do in LS, nor have interest in LS cap PvP as long as they can continue doing so.

As others have pointed out, NS can flood LS with fleets should it wish to do so.
Currently they have no interest in LS, except as a fly-over sector to and from HS.

You would think it is possible someone could remember what they actually wrote.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
The primary problem is JFs lol-cynoing past LS between HS-NS.
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.


It isn't me inferring anything and your claim about caps in lowsec was separate to the stupid point about jump freighters.

You clearly said, 'Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favouring NS neighbours".

Your words.

Post your evidence of STFU, because you have no clue what you are talking about (as usual).

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Salvos Rhoska
#707 - 2017-03-30 07:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

The primary problem is JFs lol-cynoing past LS between HS-NS.
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.


It isn't me inferring anything. You clearly said, 'Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favouring NS neighbours".


If NS wanted to eradicate every single player structure in all of LS, they could do it, and especially with cap superiority.

You are again making the false inference that NS currently even bothers with LS as anything other than a fly-over sector.

The "overkill" refers to PvE content local to LS, which is tiered as such that caps are overkill for completing them.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#708 - 2017-03-30 07:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

The primary problem is JFs lol-cynoing past LS between HS-NS.
Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favoring NS neighbors.


It isn't me inferring anything. You clearly said, 'Secondary problem is caps in LS, especially with cyno, as overkill, and strongly favouring NS neighbours".


If NS wanted to eradicate every single player structure in all of LS, they could do it, and especially with cap superiority.

You are again making the false inference that NS currently even bothers with LS as anything other than a fly-over sector.

The "overkill" refers to PvE content local to LS, which is tiered as such that caps are overkill for completing them.

Oh so now it's LS PVE strongly favours NS neighbours.

Your arguments getting dumber and dumber every time you post.

You should just admit that you have no clue what you are talking about, that this 'strong favouring NS neighbours' BS is complete rubbish and at least save face.

If it strongly favours NS neighbours, there would be evidence of it.

Post it. Stop this dodging rubbish with non-sensical arguments and post some actual evidence that these cynos strongly favour NS neighbours bringing caps to LS.

Hell, even do it for PVE, since you can't for PVP.

Show how dominant PVE in LS is and how it so strongly favours NS coming to LS.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Oliver Delorean
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#709 - 2017-03-30 09:28:36 UTC
Remove low-sec.
Cut high-sec to half.
Remove local from null-sec.
Salvos Rhoska
#710 - 2017-03-30 09:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:


The "overkill" refers to PvE content local to LS, which is tiered as such that caps are overkill for completing them.

Oh so now it's LS PVE strongly favours NS neighbours.


No, that again is a false inference.

The point is that caps are overkill for LS PvE content which raises the question why they can be flown there in the first place
.
L5s can be run without them as a group effort.
Caps are massive overkill for LS DEDs/complexes.

There are 3400+ NS systems with PvE content tiered for caps.
There are only 800ish LS systems, with PvE content not tiered for caps.

Its categorically stupid to run LS PvE content in a cap, when you could be running cap content in NS.
Removing cyno/cap from LS has next to zero impact on running PvE content there.
You dont need cynos or caps to run them, and infact its foolish to do so with them.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
post some actual evidence that these cynos strongly favour NS neighbours bringing caps to LS..


1) The evidence you are asking for doesnt exist in killboards, because NS has no interest in LS, except as a fly-over sector.

Occasional lol-fleets and poorly planned/executed cap/JF destruction occurs, but is in no way representative of the strength of NS neighbors, in numbers, resources, caps etc to utterly overwhelm LS if they wanted to.

NS doesnt care about LS, except to fly its NS goods over it to HS and back.
There is absolutely nothing in LS that they cant do better in NS.
.
Even destroying player structures is pointless there, as Asset Recovery means the LS entity only loses value of the structure itself. And since LS is not Sov space, there is even less incentive to destroy them. Instead, NS just makes its own player structures to use as strategic cynowarp points for said transit through LS. If LS engages those, they will get dropped on from NS with overwhelming force, or they will just shrug and setup another one. The cost is peanuts compared to the value of the material they are flying over LS to and from HS with JFs.

2) As a concrete example of current cyno/cap in LS favoring NS, is that NS interlopers operate in LS without having to deal with bubbles. Whereas an LS interloper into NS must deal with bubbles.

Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Show how dominant PVE in LS is and how it so strongly favours NS coming to LS.


3) Why would you run crap PvE content in LS in a cap, rather than in more lucrative/blue NS?
Wtf is even your point?
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#711 - 2017-03-30 10:19:27 UTC
this is now totally confirmed that this guy is just trolling.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#712 - 2017-03-30 10:22:25 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
this is now totally confirmed that this guy is just trolling.


Weak, very weak.
And constitutes trolling in and of itself.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#713 - 2017-03-30 10:25:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
this is now totally confirmed that this guy is just trolling.


Weak, very weak.
And constitutes trolling in and of itself.


you dont have a clue what you are talking about, its getting boring listening to the same arguments from you where you provide no evidence when asked

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#714 - 2017-03-30 10:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
you dont have a clue what you are talking about, its getting boring listening to the same arguments from you where you provide no evidence when asked

Prove it.
Your boredom is not my problem. No one is forcing you to read or respond.
Believe me, your crap content here bores the hell out of me as well.
The irony of you demanding evidence when I specifically addressed that in my previous post.
Then you resort to "you dont have a clue" and "you are trolling", both which you cant substantiate and are just an excuse to avoid arguing the points made.

This isnt reddit, and Im not a push-over.
Try harder or gtfo the kitchen.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#715 - 2017-03-30 11:06:18 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
you dont have a clue what you are talking about, its getting boring listening to the same arguments from you where you provide no evidence when asked

Prove it.
Your boredom is not my problem. No one is forcing you to read or respond.
Believe me, your crap content here bores the hell out of me as well.
The irony of you demanding evidence when I specifically addressed that in my previous post.
Then you resort to "you dont have a clue" and "you are trolling", both which you cant substantiate and are just an excuse to avoid arguing the points made.

This isnt reddit, and Im not a push-over.
Try harder or gtfo the kitchen.


ofcourse not but i come here to see if anyone has anything constructive to say about the space me and any others "live" in, prove what? people have already shown you that freighters die quite often in lowsec, you chose to ignore that and again try and enforce your agenda with no evidence when asked, all you say is "lol-cyno" and nullsec this and that, you havent supplied any links to enforce what you say, so its just an opinion from someone who doesn't have a clue, nothing more.

luckily this isnt reddit as you would be trolled worse

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#716 - 2017-03-30 11:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
people have already shown you that freighters die quite often in lowsec.


Sure, the occasional idiot/drunk blows up.

Its not even a fraction of total NS-HS transit past LS in JFs.

As I stated before, there is no killboard evidence of NS neighbor capacity to overwhelm LS with caps, because they have no incentive to do so. LS is crap space compared to NS. NS has zero interest in operating in LS. Its just something to cyno over with JFs to and from HS markets (Jita/Forge).

PS: You claimed I am trolling, why then are you posting to me?
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#717 - 2017-03-30 11:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: You claimed I am trolling, why then are you posting to me?


if you havent noticed already im also trolling you

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Its not even a fraction of total NS-HS transit past LS in JFs.


prove it

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As I stated before, there is no killboard evidence of NS neighbor capacity to overwhelm LS with caps, because they have no incentive to do so.


you said a while ago that this change would "protect lowsec from nullsec neighbours dropping on lowsec with impunity", so thats wrong now?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#718 - 2017-03-30 11:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: You claimed I am trolling, why then are you posting to me?


if you havent noticed already im also trolling you

Im not trolling though.
Im posting ontopic and at length, arguing issues, answering questions, reciprocally.

But you just admitted you are infact trolling.



After your edited additions:

1) Prove that most of JF transport through LS is destroyed.

2) Post-change, NS will not be able to drop cyno/caps in LS.
LS PvP will be subcap, non-cyno, only.
The cap differential between LS and NS becomes irrelevant.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
#719 - 2017-03-30 11:35:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: You claimed I am trolling, why then are you posting to me?


if you havent noticed already im also trolling you

Im not trolling though.
Im posting ontopic and at length, arguing issues, answering questions, reciprocally.

But you just admitted you are infact trolling.



After your edited additions:

1) Prove that most of JF transport through LS is destroyed.

2) Post-change, NS will not be able to drop cyno/caps in LS.
LS PvP will be subcap, non-cyno, only.


that cant be proved but you have been shown by myself and scripio that they do die, you havent provided anything to enforce your opinion so do that instead.

you havent answered the question, you have just repeated the affects of your change

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Salvos Rhoska
#720 - 2017-03-30 11:41:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Lan Wang wrote:
that cant be proved but you have been shown by myself and scripio that they do die, you havent provided anything to enforce your opinion so do that instead.

you havent answered the question, you have just repeated the affects of your change


1) Why cant you prove that the majority of JFs cyno dont pass LS without destruction?
Why then do you expect me to be able to prove its opposite?

2) Read. The occasional idiot/drunk fails JF transit through LS.
Nobody has claimed that ALL 100% of JFs make it through LS.
Where did you get that idea into your head?

3) NS utterly dwarfs LS geographically, in wealth, resources, population, organisation and cap pilots.
Do you dispute this?

4) Since you clearly announced yourself as a deliberate troll, is this just more of the same?

(inb4 someone "else" answers these instead of Lan.)