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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

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OtroWillis Chancel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2017-02-23 19:59:39 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
What about excavator drone costs?

This just reads as the biggest fuckup in introducing an overpowerd feature that can't be properly balanced since introducing Super capitals


Well the obvious solution here is just to change the blueprint of the excavators to require a whole bunch of non Mexallon Ore. Solves all the problems.
Gaara's sniper
MLG1337420BlazeIt360TitanNoScopeCorporationSWAG
#142 - 2017-02-23 20:00:21 UTC
So basically with the change to panic module. All you have to do to kill rorquals, is wait for all the belts to die and then tackle rorqs that are left behind and quickly kill them. Yeah maybe better just use penalty to using EW during panic?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#143 - 2017-02-23 20:02:00 UTC
Panther X wrote:

You want me to stop mining? Increase the Security Class of some of our systems. Kill the broken True Sec of Delve, and move it to Vale :)


Broken truesec doesn't affect ore anomalies. We only get 10% yield anoms in -0.85 or better, same as you.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Taishoku Mayaki
Feeling Cute Today
#144 - 2017-02-23 20:05:34 UTC
Should of got a super instead of a Rorq :/ still not paid off my drones, let alone the ship + modules.

"Right-O, lets get undocked and see what falls off the ship"
Cade Windstalker
#145 - 2017-02-23 20:07:26 UTC
Panther X wrote:
Jura McBain wrote:
Thanks for ruining my skill queu and waste my time to sit in a rorqual. YOu make more change more time we waste in learning the skill to use a rorq. I want refund of my sub because i wasted months (money) training something you are nerfing every day. Ans liek some apointed before.

2 hulks 600M
1 Rorq 12B.

Now ,what is the point of mining whit rorqs?

Answer: waste time for learning useless skills.


I would like a refund on the skill queues and books, especially the ice mining drones that are what 5b each????


Anything in the game is subject to change and rebalancing. If you're rushing towards something that seems too good to be true then you may want to stop and consider that it just might actually *be* too good to be true and is about to get whacked with the nerf bat.

Signs that something may be about to get nerfed:


  1. Everyone rushing towards it like blind lemmings.
  2. Tons of threads about how it's either massively OP or is fine and shouldn't be touched.
  3. Your personal analysis can't come up with a compelling reason not to use it.
  4. It's rendering obsolete, worthless, or of questionable value one or more play styles, ships, modules, or features.


The Rorqual hits 1 and 2 cleanly, clearly hit 3 for anyone who immediately rushed to train into a Rorqual, and hits 4 pretty solidly as well in that the actual boosting functionality on the Rorqual has been largely ignored by players, it's replacing boosted mining fleets with either single or groups of Rorquals, and the PANIC abuse specifically was invalidating a lot of tactics around Entosis.
Zanthar Eos
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2017-02-23 20:07:29 UTC
First you ruin hics now my battle rorq! CCP just doesn't like pvp
Adolf Mekansm
Tardigrade
#147 - 2017-02-23 20:08:25 UTC
Quote:
Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


I find this change ridiculous.

Why not simply make people unable to use the PANIC mode if they have jump fatigue ?
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#148 - 2017-02-23 20:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nasar Vyron
Some of this seems okay other bits like the PANIC and combination of excavator nerfs make me wonder WTF are you thinking Fozzie/balance team.?! Might I suggest:

PANIC:
Drops all targets when used like the old siege module did.
Prevents all activation of EWAR modules.

Logic: You're using this to delay the fight for a reinforcement fleet because you feel you will die without it. These vessels should not have the ability to forcefully keep the opposing ship(s) on grid while being themselves invulnerable. If you want this, bring a friend to keep them tackled.



Excavators:
Reduce base yield 50%
Reduce cycle time 36%
Increase drone speed 1.5x

Logic: Reduction in total yield, but increase in speed to slightly counter the increased number of trips to be made by the excavators. They're still slow as all hell, so this will still come out as more than a 20% nerf, which I feel was your aim as you guys have a thing for 20%.


Asteroid belts
Don't touch them WTF are you even thinking here? Spreading them out? More? Just stop.
Add brackets for asteroids!
Re-rebalance the ore anomalies. From what is found within them, to again what the ores contain. I know you just did this, but it was done without Rorquals in mind I feel.

Logic:
1) I'm actually using logic here, don't spread out the belts even more. Seriously wtf are you guys on doing that and wanting to increase cycle times on drones with no speed buff to them. Just stop. I fear you actually thought of this interaction and thought it would sit right with anyone.
2) If you want the roids to be more clear, give us a way to see them clearly like anything in combat. Give us brackets!



---


Can a dev please be named for the locked asteroid so we can name and shame? Seriously, you may as well said you must have a wreck and asteroid targeted and be in a fleet for activation. Any other combination will cause you to SD.
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#149 - 2017-02-23 20:11:50 UTC
This seems ridiculously contrived.

Why not disallow PANIC activation for a little while after jumping/warping? It would all but kill rorqs being used as hics, since anyone sane would primary them as soon as they arrive on field. It would also allow you to blame the inability to use PANIC on some science fiction thing like interference from warp/jump, instead of not having a rock locked Roll

Disappointing, again.

♥
Grymwulf
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2017-02-23 20:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Grymwulf
Ok, the amount of salt being generated in this thread is amazing. Let's not go overboard though...

Agreed, the nerf to Rorqual yields does seem to be a bit overboard, combined with the other changes it's hard to predict the actual change in yield.

I believe the amount of nerfing suggested shows yet again how CCP has very little idea of how to adjust things in a smart and intelligent way. First off, make one change, see how it goes, don't do 3 different changes where the combination of them all can be hard to predict. Honestly, make the changes to one thing at a time, less chance of unintended consequences.

Has no one at CCP learned the lesson from the history of overly complicated POS code? This goes again to my earlier comment, don't make big sweeping changes when small steps are capable of addressing the issue.

Question #1 - Is there currently a coded mechanic to address overpowered ECM capabilities when a particular module is activated?
Question #2 - Is it easier to adapt already existing code that has been through several passes of QA, or to code a truly unique and untested method that has glaringly obvious exploitable issues?

Coding an entirely new solution to a problem that has an easily adapted solution already in the code-base seems more about pride and hubris than anything else. Is this a certain developers attempt to demonstrate that their solution is better than one coded by someone else? Is this ego getting in the way of effective coding?

I'm a jerk.  Get used to it.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#151 - 2017-02-23 20:18:33 UTC
The spreading out of ore anomalies seems sort of unusual and arbitrary, to me. Where I'm from, folks siege right on top of a rock. When the rock is exhausted, they warp to a perch, then to another rock. Does CCP have metrics stating that a significant number of folks have mining patterns contrary to this?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#152 - 2017-02-23 20:20:39 UTC
Just drop max locked targets to zero, when in panic, or if you have fitted entosis/disruptors/scrams/neuts not possible to fit panic.

And yet one of the biggest problems a rorqual has is that it can tank too much with cargo that big and newly introduced navy cap booster 3200's. A ship you cannot neut dry enough to not boost that can tank way over 100k dps.
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#153 - 2017-02-23 20:25:38 UTC
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.

yeah their workaround is bizarre
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#154 - 2017-02-23 20:26:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Wibla
Querns wrote:
The spreading out of ore anomalies seems sort of unusual and arbitrary, to me. Where I'm from, folks siege right on top of a rock. When the rock is exhausted, they warp to a perch, then to another rock. Does CCP have metrics stating that a significant number of folks have mining patterns contrary to this?


You think they base their decisions on actual actionable data? Not sure if trolling or naïve.

If they actually looked at the data, they would see stuff like the mineral basket causing a surplus of some minerals and the lack of large-scale conflict because the current meta does not promote it.

Edit: My points would require someone who actually had insight in the game though, and I'm not sure CCP has any left on staff that really gets how eve works. Didn't they get rid of their economy professor too?
Side1Bu2Rnz9
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2017-02-23 20:30:51 UTC
Fun fact...

With this change regular T2 mining drones will mine at about 1/3rd the m3/minute as the escavators while remaining at about 1500 times less expensive.

Way to nerf rorquals and escavator drones into the dirt...
Mia Sedgwick
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#156 - 2017-02-23 20:32:16 UTC
Why don't you simply make it that tackle mods can't be activated with PANIC in a similar way to the Network Sensor Array? Yet again a fairly simple solution is available and CCP picks an alternative that can completely nerfs a ship.
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#157 - 2017-02-23 20:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Momiji Sakora
So, in addition to being locked to a grid for 5 minutes (more than enough time for nullified interceptor gangs to cross 3 or 4 systems to wherever the rorqual is mining).

But if they bring EWAR I can't even use the PANIC module?

On TOP of it getting more nerfs to how much ore it can bring in?
caldari MJ
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#158 - 2017-02-23 20:38:12 UTC

fozzie nerfed anything in WH's and deprived us tasty targets in w-space. We started rolling 0-sec and fozzie nerfed our targets in 0-sec's....facepalm.jpg. Fozzie, i hate you, you realy bad man, how you can sleep every night while so many people hate u?))))
Sgt Warlock
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#159 - 2017-02-23 20:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Warlock
For me as average joe it is very simple.

The time I have with a 60 hour work week is so few I can do with a nice mining yield. removal of that means it is not worth sititng in a belt anymore with so much in assets. If you want to tweak anything, apply the same things to ratting carriers and see how much salt you get:

-get them stuck in place
-make all t2 einheirj and such 1.5 bill each and only launch them when in siege
-reduce max amount isk gained per tick with 50%

More value, more income for CCP and more content!!! So Fozzie, implement this and make the life of all ratters miserable!


I wasted 15 billion on drones, my initial rorqual fit was 12 bill which I stripped and sold after the first changes.
In training time I wasted a lot of skillpoints and time. In a ratting carrier you make 120-180 mill an hour... are free to move and
no worries.

In november at Evesterdam there was said no imminent changes untill the spring at least. This is not true again.
a simple griffin 1,5m isk can make sure a very big 2000x as expensive ship gets blown up. It is the same thing as having a flea killing an elephant....

In all the time I dedicated myself to mining to help build stuff I always earned less as a ratter. Now finally there was a equalizer
to make ratting and mining more equal. In building/mining we make content possible by providing ships for all the battles.
So instead of simply removing the ability to use webs/scrams on rorqs, or ban the guys getting caught on that.


On top of that all the svipuls could go unnerved for over a year....


I hereby call on all miners to set all mineral prizes to tenfold!!!! Market fixed!
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#160 - 2017-02-23 20:40:04 UTC
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
Fun fact...

With this change regular T2 mining drones will mine at about 1/3rd the m3/minute as the escavators while remaining at about 1500 times less expensive.

Way to nerf rorquals and escavator drones into the dirt...


i mean, rorquals are mining ships so dirt should be something they're well acquainted with

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.