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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

First post First post First post
Author
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#121 - 2017-02-23 19:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: The Economist
Just horrible.

Desire to tweak panic; understandable. Solution; mentally challenged.

2nd excavator nerf, and at that scale....hilarious if you weren't serious.

Rorquals have been generating content like nothing else while still dying left and right and have opened up all kinds of interesting gameplay and re-invigorated mining; your ideas will have a massive negative impact on these factors.

#savetherorqual
Or'es'ka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2017-02-23 19:18:19 UTC
welp, CCP, you did it. You ruined the rorq for actual miners. Cant justify the 8 bill in drones plus another 2.7 bil for the ship, not to mention another 2-3 bil for the fit..... This is almost a 50% reduction. You need to seriously adjust the required mats to build excavators because they arent worth the insane price anymore.

You had one job, no jump hictor that can be invul. instead, **** indy. now if you get jammed you just die faster. We are seeing rorqs fie at least a few a day. All you had to do was nerf its offensive capabilities, but instead you make it worthless. I'm disappointed Fozzie, you frequently talk about risk vs reward. With groups like inner hell who hunt rorqs, non stop and considering the rorqs role IS TO BE IN THE BELT, not like a super that sits docked until actual combat, the rorq must sit stationary and helpless, you somehow think this is a fair trade? Now all they have to do is bring a couple fast lock griffins and the rorq has no hope of activating PANIC to give a fleet time to form. Because I guarantee everyone will do this from now on.


SERIOUSLY CCP, WHY DO YOU HATE INDUSTRIALISTS? Just nerf PL and be done with it!

Nerd rage over!
Lucian James
THORN Syndicate
Northern Coalition.
#123 - 2017-02-23 19:21:39 UTC
I am completely neutral on this change.

My own guys mine materials awfully fast in Rorquals.. and reducing amount by 33% is not horrific.

Per some comments though, a reduced cycle time means more drone travel time means less amount mined per time.
Perhaps this could be adjusted to be less painful. 33% is already a big step.

PANIC changes make sense. I was looking forward to using an FC tackling Rorqual... oh well... I'll just have to mine in it.


Cheers.
Tribal Trogdor
Better Off Red
Unspoken Alliance.
#124 - 2017-02-23 19:22:42 UTC
I have a good solution. Decrease the amount of minerals in all ores by 75%. Then you don't have to nerf the rorq anymore!

But really, the whole infinite amounts of high end ores in a single sov system, regardless of its true sec is the problem. We need a more dynamic resource system to be in the right spot. Make people move around, spread out a little more, fight over systems that have more resources...something :D
Or'es'ka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2017-02-23 19:29:46 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.



I am no rorq pilot at all but this simple change makes so much sense. Anyone has some logical reasoning against that?



when has ccp EVER been logical?
Or'es'ka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2017-02-23 19:30:45 UTC
Lucian James wrote:
I am completely neutral on this change.

My own guys mine materials awfully fast in Rorquals.. and reducing amount by 33% is not horrific.

Per some comments though, a reduced cycle time means more drone travel time means less amount mined per time.
Perhaps this could be adjusted to be less painful. 33% is already a big step.

PANIC changes make sense. I was looking forward to using an FC tackling Rorqual... oh well... I'll just have to mine in it.


Cheers.


not 33%, max skills base is 215. its an almost 50% reduction
RicksterTech Amphal
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#127 - 2017-02-23 19:33:16 UTC
I'm Sorry but this is a joke the market is not crashing due to rorqs as enough of them get killed and i have seen no change in market prices so WHY CCP DO YOU KEEP PENALISING THE INDY PEOPLE.

I may as well not bother anymore you've take roughly 85% of the mining yield away from the drones why there was no need just take away thier jump-hictor ability and thats all that needs doing also from looking at the Indy Core it does not say it makes rors immune to ecm so now they won't be able to PANIC.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2017-02-23 19:34:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid

This is very counter-intuitive. Please make sure you explicitly document this peculiarity. IN BOLD PRINT.
And I dont understand why you can not just automatically check if there are roids nearby upon module activation. Lazy programming?
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2017-02-23 19:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Or'es'ka wrote:
its an almost 50% reduction

On paper, it's 25% reduction.
The real question is how they spread out the roids and what will be in-field real yield.

Trajan Unknown wrote:
>>Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.
I am no rorq pilot at all but this simple change makes so much sense. Anyone has some logical reasoning against that?

CCP stated that you will be able to mine while in PANIC. Evidently, the dont want to take this away and upset the miners. /s
Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#130 - 2017-02-23 19:47:22 UTC
Mining yield aside, which will be debatable but since its a nerf, we know the reaction

But was there no more elegant way of limiting capabilities while in PANIC than requiring asteroid lock? No concerns about when in travel or when a belt is cleared?
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
Get Off My Lawn
#131 - 2017-02-23 19:47:50 UTC
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.


I could Second this!

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"

Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#132 - 2017-02-23 19:48:20 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Tappits wrote:
So you are removing the panic from rorquals then?
Because you just wait till the anomaly is poped and then warp in tackle all the rorquals and kill them all super quick with no chance to panic.


Leave merc to last. Warp rorquals out. Mine merc with barges. Duh.


I hate to agree with a Gon, but this.

I still don't think that linking PANIC to an actively locked asteroid makes ANY sense whatsoever (cause mah Rorq Team Six hotdrops) but okay... and nerfing the yield AND changing the anomolies? COME ON FOZZY. You're killing me. It already takes most of forever for me to clear spud even with two rorqs in an anom, but moving rocks farther apart? Baby steps, man, baby steps.

You want me to stop mining? Increase the Security Class of some of our systems. Kill the broken True Sec of Delve, and move it to Vale :)
I would rather hunt Officer capitals then mine anyday, but Vale is ****. And speaking of that, why are Dread Gurista Dreadnaughts dropping junk? Like Male Prostitutes and other random pieces of garbage. Fix that.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2017-02-23 19:48:27 UTC
Tribal Trogdor wrote:
But really, the whole infinite amounts of high end ores in a single sov system, regardless of its true sec is the problem. We need a more dynamic resource system to be in the right spot. Make people move around, spread out a little more, fight over systems that have more resources...something :D

I totally agree.
Infinite ice was nerfed, but infinite ore is alright? Consistency, please.
kcarr2
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#134 - 2017-02-23 19:51:35 UTC
Drone costs keep rising yet yield from initial purchase of the drone fall 75%? Come on, whats going to be done about this? No one would put up with buying a super or a titan and then having 75% of the DPS nerfed from it, so why should miners be singled out? There is nothing wrong with the mineral market. Now alliances have the ability, without massive botting rental empires to compete on the same scale as CCP's beloved PL, and here comes the CCP nerf bat (again). Total bunch of BS CCP. You're biased and you know it, there is no other explanation to this.
oresome eyes
Ephesians trading and farming
#135 - 2017-02-23 19:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: oresome eyes
Capri Sun KraftFoods wrote:
Malkshurr wrote:
At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks
It was then nerf by 32%
and now is the nerf by another 25%?

So one rorqual is 2 hulks now
2 hulks - 600 - 700 million
1 rorqual - 12 B

And you do not see the problem ?


same tbh

like

I can buy a thrasher and it to 250 dps for 10m

But I buy Proteus for 600m and it only do 550 dps????????

cpp plz fix



IF CCP makes this changes i would suggest everyone to file a petition to get your isk back since ccp did commit fraud when they published that rorquals WERE TO BE X5 times hulks. Everyone one of us that bought one on the through that the publish information would not changed is a bate and switch. Just because ccp cannot control the flow of minerals to the market, dose not mean you CCP should. THIS IS a player run market and YOU ccp keep your hands out of it. The next question i would have for the dev fossel it would seem like you have a vested interest in mineral prices is that why you are making the changes? Is this another t20 thing?

I also forgot can i have have a refund as well on my skill training time that you just wasted.
Jura McBain
Perkone
Caldari State
#136 - 2017-02-23 19:54:08 UTC
Thanks for ruining my skill queu and waste my time to sit in a rorqual. YOu make more change more time we waste in learning the skill to use a rorq. I want refund of my sub because i wasted months (money) training something you are nerfing every day. Ans liek some apointed before.

2 hulks 600M
1 Rorq 12B.

Now ,what is the point of mining whit rorqs?

Answer: waste time for learning useless skills.
Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#137 - 2017-02-23 19:54:52 UTC
Also CCP, if you REALLY wanted to make people mine in Exhumers, you shouldn't have made them such a headache in the first place!

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Panther X
Dreadnoughtz Conclave
Requiem Eternal
#138 - 2017-02-23 19:57:10 UTC
Jura McBain wrote:
Thanks for ruining my skill queu and waste my time to sit in a rorqual. YOu make more change more time we waste in learning the skill to use a rorq. I want refund of my sub because i wasted months (money) training something you are nerfing every day. Ans liek some apointed before.

2 hulks 600M
1 Rorq 12B.

Now ,what is the point of mining whit rorqs?

Answer: waste time for learning useless skills.


I would like a refund on the skill queues and books, especially the ice mining drones that are what 5b each????

Fozzy, return your Canadian Citizenship now.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
#139 - 2017-02-23 19:57:32 UTC
I am a massive care-bear, Rorq pilot and industrialist.
I support this change. It's fricken insane the amount of mining done by Rorqs and how the majority of serious miners have been putting their Exhumers into mothballs.
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2017-02-23 19:58:23 UTC
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Mining yield aside, which will be debatable but since its a nerf, we know the reaction

But was there no more elegant way of limiting capabilities while in PANIC than requiring asteroid lock? No concerns about when in travel or when a belt is cleared?

PANIC is a thing to compensate for static position when core is active. Which is not active when you travel. And let's be honest, Rorq is much more capable of defending itself than a FAX or even a Dread.
As for the cleared belt - leave mercoxit and clear it up with barges. It can be managed right.

As for the yields, I dont think this is the final nerf.
There will be more, many more of them until CCP realizes that the problem is in the belts themselves.
Granted, they already going to spread them out "a little". But this is not enough. Ore should not be infinite.