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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

First post First post First post
Author
Coelomate Tian
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2017-02-23 18:55:50 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.



I am no rorq pilot at all but this simple change makes so much sense. Anyone has some logical reasoning against that?



I assume on a basic design level, they want PANIC to not just be about calling in a response fleet, but also defending yourself from the moment you are attacked. Hence the drone damage bonus, etc.
Cpt Mangrum
Team Popcorn
#102 - 2017-02-23 18:56:13 UTC
CCP=Dumb
Opner Dresden
H A V O C
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#103 - 2017-02-23 18:56:20 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.



I am no rorq pilot at all but this simple change makes so much sense. Anyone has some logical reasoning against that?



Rorqs can still rep in PANIC.
Innominatus Invisus
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2017-02-23 18:56:40 UTC
I'd like to change the name of this thread to "All posts here are a call for Fozzie to retire, or be fired"

...then move it to Community.

Serious... clueless people in charge of 'fixes'. We have an economy that was originally touted for being designed by a Nobel winning economist, now it's being subverted and (again) 'fixed' by someone who barely understands basic math.

Sad days, these.
Taunter
Dramatic Exit Thank you And Goodnight
#105 - 2017-02-23 18:57:43 UTC
Little bit of a kick in the balls Fozzie. Lets be honest.

You shouldn't of had to nerf it, if you did the rebalance right in the first place.

I'm not salty, I'm still going to use mine. I just think you wasted time.

Vic Jefferson
ElitistOps
WE FORM V0LTA
#106 - 2017-02-23 18:58:27 UTC
Amazing fix for PANIC.
Amazing incentive for killing the drones - this makes using rorquals a bit riskier even if the ship itself is not directly threatened.

I mean I guess if CCP released some numbers on how much was being mined with them, we'd be able to partake more of this part of the discussion, but I'm going to guess those numbers are under some sort of hilarious information embargo care of the CSM. The real big picture question is, in response to some numbers you are tightening the mineral faucet, but as time progresses more and more people will probably still be working towards Rorqs as they accrue more SP, so while individual rorquals are producing less, soon there will be more rorquals overall. Basically, are you going to keep tightening the mineral faucet with yield reductions as time goes on? Is there some sort of platonic, fixed mineral prices you are shooting for? Null industry and null space is now actually worth it for something other than moons; are you trying to keep mineral prices high enough for other places to be viable for mining?

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Archeos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2017-02-23 18:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Archeos
And also the mining drones on the rorqual are a huge risk, they can be booshed, they can die to rats, they can get lost to DC, they can die in a merc cloud, or die with the rorqual while being dropped.

It's a huge risk flying that ship, so why would you want to nerf it ?
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2017-02-23 19:00:04 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Amazing fix for PANIC.
Amazing incentive for killing the drones - this makes using rorquals a bit riskier even if the ship itself is not directly threatened.

I mean I guess if CCP released some numbers on how much was being mined with them, we'd be able to partake more of this part of the discussion, but I'm going to guess those numbers are under some sort of hilarious information embargo care of the CSM. The real big picture question is, in response to some numbers you are tightening the mineral faucet, but as time progresses more and more people will probably still be working towards Rorqs as they accrue more SP, so while individual rorquals are producing less, soon there will be more rorquals overall. Basically, are you going to keep tightening the mineral faucet with yield reductions as time goes on? Is there some sort of platonic, fixed mineral prices you are shooting for? Null industry and null space is now actually worth it for something other than moons; are you trying to keep mineral prices high enough for other places to be viable for mining?



You didn't have the numbers, regardless. The MER stats have never included drone mining.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#109 - 2017-02-23 19:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Trajan Unknown wrote:
Sophia Baccarin wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Max locked targets = 0 when in PANIC.

A much easier solution to all of the problems with this module.



I am no rorq pilot at all but this simple change makes so much sense. Anyone has some logical reasoning against that?

Can't defend with drones, or continue mining, i.e. little to no game-play at all during PANIC (several minutes).

I like the idea of EWAR penalty while PANIC is active: -100% optimal -100% fall-off
Rahna Slayblood
GreenSwarm
#110 - 2017-02-23 19:02:31 UTC
So first the good things

Thanks for thinking about poor Miners being able to pay their respect to asteroids as well.
Also i hope that you manage to increase visual rock size. Since a colossal well on a visual scale is underwhelming.

The panic change well its an interesting way to diffuse it but definetly not optimal. But well others have and will say more^^

Concerning the next yield nerf for the rorqual which is about 25% if my math isnt off.
It feels like you are desperately grabbing for time to fix the underlying problem which is that not enough gets blown up to keep the ore market healthy.
Which partially is a problem made by yourself and the design philosophy with the sov system and not enough incentive for players to get the big guns out (battleships caps supers). battleship fleets are mostly obsolete except for Machs and maybe rattles. T1 counterparts arent used in bug numbers. Simply because their are other shipstypes that can do better and are well less aids to use (travel time etc).
And of course the players are partially at fault as well for not fielding the big honing spaceguns as well. But in most cases their is just no need or the spark of conflict gets snuffed through other reasons.
But before i ramble on the next thing i see happening is that we sit here in 3 months again discussing another yield nerf because most will just add another rorqual to their fleet to compensate and be done with it.

Have you thought about increasing minerals needed instead ? Placing a bigger figure of minerals needed for citadel production/ships in general? Just a though.
Odelll
Project Valhalla.
The Initiative.
#111 - 2017-02-23 19:02:50 UTC
Basic question to CCP, do you even have a QA department anymore? Because consistantly it apears like you just wing it, throw out these changes and disrupt the entire game without any process of testing or feedback.

Nullsec does not care about the mineral markets of empire, most of the ore being mined in null never reaches empire markets. The combination of industrial complexes and rorqual mining has amped up capital production across the board shifting the meta towards capitals/supercapitals. Essentially what your doing every time you implement these nerfs is preventing smaller alliances/newer entities from compeating with the people that have already benefited and stockpiled assets.

The reduction in production time in null, combined with the un-nerfed rorqual fleets from their launch until now will have an untenable inpact on the game for the next couple of years, an unfair advantage that cannot be regained.

The problem that needs to be tackled is not how much a pilot can earn mining but the isk sinks of corps and alliances. Currently there is little to drain the war chests of old alliances so large stockpiles of isk and assets are massed through periods when isk is easier to obtain or assets cheaper. No amount of changes to the individual pilot is going to effect a long standing entity like Pandemic Legion from being able to replace its entire Supercapital fleet 3 times over, regardless of the mineral market price.

Once you have given, you cannot take away or you end up with the senario of having players maintaining an advantage that can never be rivaled.
Huydo
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#112 - 2017-02-23 19:03:07 UTC
I spendet 25b for my rorq + fitting + drones + some skill injectors to get in the mining business.
And now, you want to nerf it .... again? wtf, just wtf
Hlory Gole
Not Great. Not terrible
Muh Zkill...
#113 - 2017-02-23 19:06:39 UTC
So in essence about 25% decrease in yield. Nice move, fracking up those who bought excavators at nearly 2B.
25% nerf is too ********, while the real problem is combat rorquals.
apollo429
Colonial Industries
Reckless Contingency.
#114 - 2017-02-23 19:08:55 UTC
We are investigating the option of increasing the visual size of nullsec ore asteroids to help improve the feel of the ore anom environments (they've been a bit sad looking since the veld got removed) but we are not sure about some technical details of that potential change atm so no promises.

DONT EVEN BOTHER WASTING YOUR TIME. This new Nerf to rorqual mining is being seen for what it really is. Rorquals are to op a mining ship in your eyes. It takes the place of 5 hulk toons. So now you Nerf it even more so people have to go back to mining in hulks again. This then boosts the amount of people subbed to the game thus increasing plex sales and increasing the number of people paying for eve.

You guys need to rethink the Nerf to yeld amount. You decrease the cycle time by 30% yet Nerf the yields by 50%... This is on top of the last 40-50% held next a month or 2 ago. You attempted to help with the cost of mining drone but in the end you messed that up as well but failed. So unless you are planning on releasing mining dreadnaught of sorts this is a bullshit nerf. And I say this as the mineral market falls. So if this is going to be the case then lower the requirements of the excavator drone.

I can't believe the CSM thought this was a good idea.
Captain jdd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2017-02-23 19:09:13 UTC
Good change.
Don't hear all those whiners.
Katsuya Kobayashi
#116 - 2017-02-23 19:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
I'm looking forward to your next post, Fozzie. If it's your resignation, at least. You're absolutely awful at your job.

This game is about risk and reward.

First of all, the ship already gets destroyed every single day.
*snip* No Kill boards. *snip* ISD Max Trix

And that does not include the drones, that people are already hunting - even without the incentive of kill mails. The introduction of kill mails for them is a good additional incentive. A very small gang of extremely cheap ships can already pose a serious threat to rorqual pilots' assets when they siege themselves in an asteroid field.

You should have made electronic warfare unsuable while the PANIC module is active, and you should have made the PANIC module weaker to increase the risk and leave the reward be. The game is supposed to reward players to put assets on the field. That's literally what the design behind a rorqual should be. You siege 10b+ of assets into an asteroid cluster, 70% of that value flying slowly around it, easily exposed to small gangs that come by. And a larger scale attack from through a wormhole or cyno, you'll need a capital fleet on standby to have any chance at all to live through it. It takes coordination between players to protect them, and it takes coordination between players to attack them. And it takes one guy to ruin them, you.




For the betterment of the game, I sincerely hope you resign. I have no trust in you as a game designer at CCP. Thank you in advance.
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
#117 - 2017-02-23 19:10:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.


Can you make the targeted asteroids blow up when PANIC is activated? Otherwise it feels too much like an arbitrary limitation with no basis in lore.
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
Rezeda Regnum
#118 - 2017-02-23 19:11:12 UTC
when you nerf yield for excavator drones why do not you a little boost yield from rorq boosts to other mining ships?

sry for my English :-(

Hlory Gole
Not Great. Not terrible
Muh Zkill...
#119 - 2017-02-23 19:11:50 UTC
apollo429 wrote:
We are investigating the option of increasing the visual size of nullsec ore asteroids to help improve the feel of the ore anom environments (they've been a bit sad looking since the veld got removed) but we are not sure about some technical details of that potential change atm so no promises.

DONT EVEN BOTHER WASTING YOUR TIME. This new Nerf to rorqual mining is being seen for what it really is. Rorquals are to op a mining ship in your eyes. It takes the place of 5 hulk toons. So now you Nerf it even more so people have to go back to mining in hulks again. This then boosts the amount of people subbed to the game thus increasing plex sales and increasing the number of people paying for eve.

You guys need to rethink the Nerf to yeld amount. You decrease the cycle time by 30% yet Nerf the yields by 50%... This is on top of the last 40-50% held next a month or 2 ago. You attempted to help with the cost of mining drone but in the end you messed that up as well but failed. So unless you are planning on releasing mining dreadnaught of sorts this is a bullshit nerf. And I say this as the mineral market falls. So if this is going to be the case then lower the requirements of the excavator drone.

I can't believe the CSM thought this was a good idea.

Well, apparently people who care about mining are rare on CSM, if they ever exist. Players who do only PvP think ships just appear out of thin air and are dropped in Jita 4-4.
Orakkus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2017-02-23 19:13:09 UTC
The Whine.. it is a good whine. A vintage whine that we will remember for years. The salty taste, the flowery aroma of dashed entitlement, the deep dark color of clearly missing the fact that the Rorqual and Excavator drones were OBVIOUSLY going to get nerfed.

Yes, tis a good vintage.. one I will savor for a long time.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander