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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2061 - 2015-07-14 00:59:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I often wonder when the few decent alliances in the CFC will wake up and leave the bads to it, then and only then will we have a nulsec worth fighting for.
I have often wondered why there hasn't been a Goons witch hunt.

We talk about Null Sec as though it is greatly significant to the number of players in EVE but it is a pretty small factor. Sure, the huge battles drews some initial numbers and yes, some people dream about being ready to move out there one day. However, Chunks is right in a way.
On a day to day basis, Null Sec provides entertainment for a minority of players (who happen to play for the longest, demographically, speaking).

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2062 - 2015-07-14 06:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I often wonder when the few decent alliances in the CFC will wake up and leave the bads to it, then and only then will we have a nulsec worth fighting for.
I have often wondered why there hasn't been a Goons witch hunt.

We talk about Null Sec as though it is greatly significant to the number of players in EVE but it is a pretty small factor. Sure, the huge battles drews some initial numbers and yes, some people dream about being ready to move out there one day. However, Chunks is right in a way.
On a day to day basis, Null Sec provides entertainment for a minority of players (who happen to play for the longest, demographically, speaking).


CCP's take on retention is wrong IMO since they try to lure more people into doing what works, than try to improve what doesn't works so they stop churning new customers as if there was no tomorrow.

They are already admitting defeat if their primary strategy is what should be the last resource of a desperate and cornered company.

Unless they are actually desperate and cornered, of course. Which is my overall impression since Incarna... Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2063 - 2015-07-14 07:01:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Well after 104 pages of bitching and whining, fozzie sov hits tomorrow. Some have spent the notice period preparing, and are looking forward to a change; others have chosen to cry about it as their coping strategy.



See you in space; I'm in Tenal

And a safer part of nulsec you couldn't ask for...


I know right? And we've spoiled it already, leaving rusty old Hyperions jacked up in front of the trailer and picking fights with old man Rus))) next door.

There goes the neighbourhood!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#2064 - 2015-07-14 07:05:21 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
...so the developers eventually focus on High Sec, dammit! Lol

Yes, maybe now that CCP knows trough science that ganking newbros is good for player retention they will hopefully get back to highsec and make it easier to gank people. That is what you mean, isn't it?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2065 - 2015-07-14 08:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
And then there is this thing that is very hard to understand for me, why on earth here null/high sec residents and/or PvP/PvE people would be any way against other players playing styles? In a sandbox?

Because when everyone plays how they like to play it's called "Steam library", not "sandbox". Sandbox is about facing objective reality that isn't driven by artificial narrative.

Some players have problems with adopting a playstlye that takes that into account, seeing it as a threat to their fun. In the meantime others see a threat to their fun in publicity first group gets because who knows, CCP may get wrong idea or something...

That's really it. Now, where's my black cape of Captain Obvious?
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2066 - 2015-07-14 11:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Sgt Ocker wrote:
...it must have been pretty out there Blink


I guess things got just a bit heated up and even slightly personal (not against me though so can´t really tell), but enough about that.



Barrogh Habalu wrote:
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
And then there is this thing that is very hard to understand for me, why on earth here null/high sec residents and/or PvP/PvE people would be any way against other players playing styles? In a sandbox?

Because when everyone plays how they like to play it's called "Steam library", not "sandbox". Sandbox is about facing objective reality that isn't driven by artificial narrative.

Some players have problems with adopting a playstlye that takes that into account, seeing it as a threat to their fun. In the meantime others see a threat to their fun in publicity first group gets because who knows, CCP may get wrong idea or something...


Ok, thank you for clearing things up. And well my idea about sandbox were that we can make what we like out of sand (meaning ability to play how ever one wishes, in games limits), as long as we are still inside sandbox limits (in this case New Eden+wh´s and game mechanics).


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And for the new Sov starting, Live Long And Prosper! Obviously we will be stuck with you anyway for a while Roll
Hope high and low seccers will start to team up invidually but together against null and grief their timers.

And now finally when fozzie sov starts, about numbers talked about here...
My bet is this day hits 35K at best time of the day, as numbers usually go high after releases for a while. But few weeks after new sov is familiar to players is what will show the direction of EvE PCU numbers (in EvE-Offline).
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#2067 - 2015-07-14 11:49:06 UTC
I have removed a personal attack post.

Quote:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2068 - 2015-07-14 12:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
I often wonder when the few decent alliances in the CFC will wake up and leave the bads to it, then and only then will we have a nulsec worth fighting for.
I have often wondered why there hasn't been a Goons witch hunt.

We talk about Null Sec as though it is greatly significant to the number of players in EVE but it is a pretty small factor. Sure, the huge battles drews some initial numbers and yes, some people dream about being ready to move out there one day. However, Chunks is right in a way.
On a day to day basis, Null Sec provides entertainment for a minority of players (who happen to play for the longest, demographically, speaking).

A Goon witch hunt would require a group large enough to equal what is currently in Nulsec.
None of the existing groups will front on take on Goons as they just have too many allies. Your not fighting Goons, you are fighting half of nulsec. Attack a Goon alliance (face it Imperium is Goons + Pets) and you face having to deal with half of nulsec's population as enemies.
For many it is easier to just ignore Goons (pretty easy to do) or get set blue to them.
Goons won't fight alone as will none of their allies, it is just not how they play the game and regardless of what CCP do, that won't change.
I've seen coalition wide pings go out for a 10 man roaming gang. Worst part is, people go because they are so bored, without realizing - They create the boredom by having to rely on others for their safety and content.

Nulsec could be so much more, it could be a place full of activity but while ever "More Wins" is the meta and power blocks don't fight (each other) nothing much can change in nulsec. Sov will continue to change hands as smaller less established groups get pushed around but nothing will really change sov except the massive groups deciding they want to play eve instead of "little empires".

As for number in highsec vs nulsec - Top 20 alliances, 8 belong to The Imperium and number just over over 35k members - Sadly due to the restrictions such a large number belonging to one group imposes, many are perma afk.

Break that group down to individual alliances, you have an active, thriving war zone - Combined as they are, you have, well a large group that is basically afk. This does although afford those few active alliances a good deal of security as no-one is going to risk attacking a smaller group that has 35k allies.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2069 - 2015-07-14 12:49:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Well after 104 pages of bitching and whining, fozzie sov hits tomorrow. Some have spent the notice period preparing, and are looking forward to a change; others have chosen to cry about it as their coping strategy.



See you in space; I'm in Tenal

And a safer part of nulsec you couldn't ask for...


I know right? And we've spoiled it already, leaving rusty old Hyperions jacked up in front of the trailer and picking fights with old man Rus))) next door.

There goes the neighbourhood!


Only took you and 7 ally alliances?
Tenal statistics on Zkill, looking a bit like Goon minions have a goal.
Circle of Two
The Bastion
Razor
Executive Outcomes
Goonswarm Federation
Fidelas Constans
Tactical Narcotics Team
There is even a few where The Initiative. featured



If you wanted to show your alliance aren't just Goon minions, you should have thought twice about posting proof you in fact are.

Good way to fight a war (the goon way) - Pick a fight then bring in a few thousand of your allies. Now that is what i call initiative.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2070 - 2015-07-14 13:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Ok, thank you for clearing things up. And well my idea about sandbox were that we can make what we like out of sand (meaning ability to play how ever one wishes, in games limits), as long as we are still inside sandbox limits (in this case New Eden+wh´s and game mechanics).

It's up to interpretation. In the end, meaning of sandbox is a toy version of freedom interpretation. In the world of free individuals one is not "truly" free because everyone is also free to interact with him, which eventually interferes with his own freedom.

It's sort of a paradox if you look at it from such a PoV, but thankfully, we have a video game with defined ruleset at hand, and we don't have to answer eternal question, we can just compare what we have with other video games. Sure, both nature of environment that is defined by superposition of player actions and game mechanics that constitutes what I called "non-narratively driven objective reality" and lack of artificially set goals are necessary for what we call "MMO sandbox" (as opposed to alternatives) to happen, but while the latter concept is widely understood (sorta...), the former gets ignored so much that I had to empathise it. We are making this game what our collective (and unconscious) us want it to be, and you can make it into what you want... If you can. That's the crucial part.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2071 - 2015-07-14 14:27:16 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Well after 104 pages of bitching and whining, fozzie sov hits tomorrow. Some have spent the notice period preparing, and are looking forward to a change; others have chosen to cry about it as their coping strategy.



See you in space; I'm in Tenal

And a safer part of nulsec you couldn't ask for...


I know right? And we've spoiled it already, leaving rusty old Hyperions jacked up in front of the trailer and picking fights with old man Rus))) next door.

There goes the neighbourhood!


Only took you and 7 ally alliances?
Tenal statistics on Zkill, looking a bit like Goon minions have a goal.
Circle of Two
The Bastion
Razor
Executive Outcomes
Goonswarm Federation
Fidelas Constans
Tactical Narcotics Team
There is even a few where The Initiative. featured



If you wanted to show your alliance aren't just Goon minions, you should have thought twice about posting proof you in fact are.

Good way to fight a war (the goon way) - Pick a fight then bring in a few thousand of your allies. Now that is what i call initiative.



That's your narrative to worry about, chief; I don't have to sweat myself supporting or refuting it to GD. I only have to log in and see who's shooting with AFs and who's shooting with BS, caps and supers.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jenshae Chiroptera
#2072 - 2015-07-14 14:32:16 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A Goon witch hunt would require a group large enough to equal what is currently in Nulsec..
A proper witch hunt would include High Sec, all current red entities and also current blue entities. Basically, anything that is not a bee would be out to crush them.
Malcanis wrote:
... I know right? And we've spoiled ...
That looks terribly boring. No wonder CFC keep roaming down to Providence, desperate for something to do.
Drips and drabs per day for an entire region. Provi gets pages of kills per day, usually.

Well, this explains, to some extent, why Null Sec is so empty and CCP are trying drastic measures to change that.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2073 - 2015-07-14 14:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A Goon witch hunt would require a group large enough to equal what is currently in Nulsec..
A proper witch hunt would include High Sec, all current red entities and also current blue entities. Basically, anything that is not a bee would be out to crush them.
Malcanis wrote:
... I know right? And we've spoiled ...
That looks terribly boring. No wonder CFC keep roaming down to Providence, desperate for something to do.
Drips and drabs per day for an entire region. Provi gets pages of kills per day, usually.

Well, this explains, to some extent, why Null Sec is so empty and CCP are trying drastic measures to change that.

Nullsec is empty, because people down there are worthless for what it's meant to be. They care about fun, not living and working in space. They are all seperated into big groups of likeminded people, not like in every city on earth and highsec, where it's a huge set of unconnected individuals.

Imagine a blue scamming a blue. Not happening. Suicide ganks from blue to blue. Not happening. There's a huge amount of things that never happens down there, because there's rules that do not allow the possibilities you have in any bigger city on earth, or highsec.

It's boring, in comparison.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#2074 - 2015-07-14 17:29:56 UTC
did the sky fall yet ? Roll
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2075 - 2015-07-14 19:31:33 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
did the sky fall yet ? Roll
I hope not, I've still got umbrellas to sell.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2076 - 2015-07-14 19:57:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
A Goon witch hunt would require a group large enough to equal what is currently in Nulsec..
A proper witch hunt would include High Sec, all current red entities and also current blue entities. Basically, anything that is not a bee would be out to crush them.
Malcanis wrote:
... I know right? And we've spoiled ...
That looks terribly boring. No wonder CFC keep roaming down to Providence, desperate for something to do.
Drips and drabs per day for an entire region. Provi gets pages of kills per day, usually.

Well, this explains, to some extent, why Null Sec is so empty and CCP are trying drastic measures to change that.


Well it's a list of POS kills, not a single battle report.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jenshae Chiroptera
#2077 - 2015-07-14 21:22:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Well it's a list of POS kills, not a single battle report.
Ah. Didn't look at it for long. Thought it was all kills for the whole region.
I know Deklein is usually the region to test the acoustics with pins.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2078 - 2015-07-14 23:11:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Well after 104 pages of bitching and whining, fozzie sov hits tomorrow. Some have spent the notice period preparing, and are looking forward to a change; others have chosen to cry about it as their coping strategy.



See you in space; I'm in Tenal

And a safer part of nulsec you couldn't ask for...


I know right? And we've spoiled it already, leaving rusty old Hyperions jacked up in front of the trailer and picking fights with old man Rus))) next door.

There goes the neighbourhood!


Only took you and 7 ally alliances?
Tenal statistics on Zkill, looking a bit like Goon minions have a goal.
Circle of Two
The Bastion
Razor
Executive Outcomes
Goonswarm Federation
Fidelas Constans
Tactical Narcotics Team
There is even a few where The Initiative. featured



If you wanted to show your alliance aren't just Goon minions, you should have thought twice about posting proof you in fact are.

Good way to fight a war (the goon way) - Pick a fight then bring in a few thousand of your allies. Now that is what i call initiative.



That's your narrative to worry about, chief; I don't have to sweat myself supporting or refuting it to GD. I only have to log in and see who's shooting with AFs and who's shooting with BS, caps and supers.



Interesting Who is shooting who with what?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Urandas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2079 - 2015-07-15 03:16:23 UTC
My issues with this new sov system, 12 hours into the new beast, are basically what you've stated. I've spent all day today joining home defense fleets to chase of pubbies with links. A major hope from the player base was that these changes were going to spark more 'content'. However, sitting in fleet for 3 hours chancing harassers who turn tail and run the minute you show push back is not what I would call 'content'. However this is day 1, and things are likely to slow down in the coming days. That being said, if this is what sov null is like for the next 9 years, would a wormhole corp be kind enough for me to sleep on their couch and let me do their laundry for them?
The best mechanic I liked from dominion sov was that the attacker could decide when they wanted to start the fight, that being said they had to initiate it by dropping sbu's. But that was a limited engagement, only sov structures in that system or systems that were sbu'd were vulnerable. However in this system all (emphasize all) your sov structures are vulnerable at least once a day. I would like to see an iteration on this, preferably bring back the sbu, and make it destructible via entosis link.
Now that I'm on this topic this 'fozzie-sov' doesn't really feel like a complete sov revamp. We're still using the same structures but changing the way sov changes hands from hp grind to entosis grind. Hopefully new structures later this year or next will help bring a bigger change over all.
Spending all day fighting for my space and not being able to do anything with it doesn't seem worth holding it in the first place. However I am in gsf, so you could bring up the argument that I am bias, I really can't argue against such claim, what does everyone else think? Also, I need to include this otherwise people apparently wonder why I am not doing this, so, Please notice me senpai, one day I will get you to notice me.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#2080 - 2015-07-15 07:11:15 UTC
I was listening to Fozzie on EN24 saying that the fall off in numbers was from hisec, so Kaurous, Baaldor and Jenn a'Side there you go proof what I said.

EVE is losing a lot of people in hisec so CCP needs to do some challenging group play stuff in hisec fast and you three plonkers should now go and chew on the humble pie.

In terms of the Goons, people are stupid to head up there now, wait to they deploy and then do it, come on stop being stupid...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp