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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2101 - 2015-07-15 12:11:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
erg cz wrote:
If you check eve-marketdata you will see that number of sell orders in all 3 main market hubs droped significantly during last few weeks.


That couldn't be anything else, of course. Nothing about the lead up to the sov changes or anything like that. Roll



Quote:
Eve is dying cause PvP ppl refuse to understand, that PvE is very much valid gameplay for newbees. Newbees got frustrated by getting forced into PvP when they do not want it, so they do not develop to the point, when they want PvP and quit. Old PvP freaks have less targets to shot and quit too.


Please tell me more about how your specific niche is what will save the game from a market order lull. Make sure to add in something to try and contradict that CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic.


Fozzie already said the drop in numbers were from Highsec...

Also no one is claiming one niche will save the game... there needs to be a balance to do that.

And you are using the new player retention stats, but we also have stats from CCP that it is 3 to 1 the number of newbros who decide to PVE only... so how could those stats possibly be accurate past the first Month+trial?

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2102 - 2015-07-15 12:12:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Lol now I see good points from both of you, both could equally be true as a reason for dropping numbers, but a bit controversal (unless both ate equally away online numbers)...

Even more confused now Lol


They functionally banned the gameplay of several thousand accounts, at least. Whether you agree with the changes or not, all those accounts are now by and large worthless to the people who previously kept them subbed. The majority of them quit. That's not my opinion.

Some people would like you to believe that the player count drop has NOTHING to do with this fact that thousands of accounts were functionally banned, but instead how CCP doesn't kiss ass enough to the carebears.

It beggars belief.


Confirming someone here is so wrapped up in HIS view of Eve that he believes ISBoxer was never used by PVPr's

The reason they banned it was the bomber fleets Brah.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2103 - 2015-07-15 12:14:34 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Fozzie already said the drop in numbers were from Highsec...


I thought we were talking about sell orders? Or did Fozzie opine on that as well?

Make up your mind which drum you're beating.


Quote:

And you are using the new player retention stats, but we also have stats from CCP that it is 3 to 1 the number of newbros who decide to PVE only...


Yes, and since we know from a previous study that the vast majority of them quit the game, it's quite clear which way works better.


Quote:

so how could those stats possibly be accurate past the first Month+trial?


They're not invalid just because you don't want to accept their conclusion. Try to disqualify all you like, your narrative is "put a bullet in him, he won't race again" done.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

erg cz
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#2104 - 2015-07-15 12:15:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


That couldn't be anything else, of course. Nothing about the lead up to the sov changes or anything like that. Roll



In that case market would drop almost every time new patch is out.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Please tell me more about how your specific niche is what will save the game from a market order lull. Make sure to add in something to try and contradict that CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic.


In game with player driven economy dying market means dying game. "CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic." - any proof of this? I remember CCP telling something quite different...

If you got oneshoted wihthout opportunity even to fight back and than laughed at in chat about how silly you are not looking at d-scan (what is it, hu?) this will not encourage you to renew subscription.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2105 - 2015-07-15 12:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dracvlad wrote:
I was listening to Fozzie on EN24 saying that the fall off in numbers was from hisec, so Kaurous, Baaldor and Jenn a'Side there you go proof what I said.

EVE is losing a lot of people in hisec so CCP needs to do some challenging group play stuff in hisec fast and you three plonkers should now go and chew on the humble pie.


Chew on humble pie because people who are so pitiful that that can't play a game without restricting themselves to the safest 13.5 percent of it (High sec) stop playing?
In the words of every Brit I've ever heard on comms , "Not bloody likely mate". Maybe this is why these forms have seemed a fraction less whiny in the past few months lol.

The bolded part is a "tell" like in a game of poker, ie it 'tells' you how the person thinks. In this case, it's advantage seeking behavior, because obviously, the thing that will 'fix' high sec just so happen to be the thing that Dracvlad wants to happen for his own personal reasons.

Sorry, Incursions (including scout incursions that can be done with a few friends) and Cosmos static plexes already exist. If it were lack of group content causing anything, those things would have to not exist 1st, but they do.


The real story here is that CCP's moves toward player control of things (starting with things like the pocos and the coming new structures) is slowly chasing away the NPC gameplay dependent themepark players, many of whom are high sec only players. If this is so, this is a very good outcome as far as I'm concerned, because CCP should have never tried to cater to that type of player in the 1st place.

EVE at it's best is a game of human interaction, and some of CCPs past decisons have been anti-human interaction. Those of us who relish human interaction (as in my own case, I PVE but enjoy out maneuvering PVPrs who want to kill me, most of the time anyways) are doing fine, those that don't are hopefully finding for themselves themepark games to their liking somewhere else.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2106 - 2015-07-15 12:20:57 UTC
erg cz wrote:

In that case market would drop almost every time new patch is out.


...can you even read? They don't drop a new goddamned sov system every time they patch the game.


Quote:

In game with player driven economy dying market means dying game.


Yeah, it's the "dying" part that you pulled out of your ass.


Quote:

"CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic." - any proof of this? I remember CCP telling something quite different...


Please be trolling. They had a goddamned fanfest presentation about it, dude.

Quote:

If you got oneshoted wihthout opportunity even to fight back and than laughed at in chat about how silly you are not looking at d-scan (what is it, hu?) this will not encourage you to renew subscription.


Except that, contrary to what your feelings tell you, that's exactly how it does work. The demographic that experienced non consensual PvP was the most likely to resub to the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2107 - 2015-07-15 12:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
erg cz wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


That couldn't be anything else, of course. Nothing about the lead up to the sov changes or anything like that. Roll



In that case market would drop almost every time new patch is out.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Please tell me more about how your specific niche is what will save the game from a market order lull. Make sure to add in something to try and contradict that CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic.


In game with player driven economy dying market means dying game. "CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic." - any proof of this? I remember CCP telling something quite different...

If you got oneshoted wihthout opportunity even to fight back and than laughed at in chat about how silly you are not looking at d-scan (what is it, hu?) this will not encourage you to renew subscription.



I didn't say anything about the market... try harder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sbHqFgn4SOw

Go see minute 17... 80% of the players who stay past the first month play solo and avoid PVP....

CCP previously said that being ganked was not a reason they left... however new players are not PVPr's they are 3 to 1 PVE mindset.

CCP is making the same mistake that you are... They say that PVPrs tend to stay in the game longer, which is true... so their theory and yours is to make them do more PVP... but the reason PVPrs stay in the game more is the content is generated, upgraded and focused at them. If CCP put half as much effort into PVE (APOCRYPHA) they would be growing again.

Again, try harder

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2108 - 2015-07-15 12:26:00 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Go see minute 17... 80% of the players who stay past the first month play solo and avoid PVP....


I already know that, it's the "Level your Raven" meme.

And I already know that those people's retention rate is terrible. Because they are doing it wrong. The NPE pushes people in a direction that is actively bad for retention.

Highsec's PvE centric ruleset is actively bad for the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#2109 - 2015-07-15 12:26:06 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Fozzie already said the drop in numbers were from Highsec...

How is this possible? The awox nerf promised tons of new players in highsec... I am confused...
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2110 - 2015-07-15 12:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
erg cz wrote:
If you check eve-marketdata you will see that number of sell orders in all 3 main market hubs droped significantly during last few weeks. It is not the summer. Eve is dying cause PvP ppl refuse to understand, that PvE is very much valid gameplay for newbees. Newbees got frustrated by getting forced into PvP when they do not want it, so they do not develop to the point, when they want PvP and quit. Old PvP freaks have less targets to shot and quit too.


EvE is basically PvP game in every sence, even mining and markets (including worth of LP and salvage from missions) include competing another players.

Can it be improved? Propably.

Will it be changed in any major way? No.

EvE claims on it´s market position with "hardcore PvP" attitude, as other space games like ED and SC offer better PvE.



In short, no long time EvE subscriber can´t be so poor he can´t own another (non subscription space) game for PvE, and come to PvP in EvE, if or when they wish to do so.
No need to change EvE and get rid of PvP oriented players for that...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2111 - 2015-07-15 12:27:37 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
but the reason PVPrs stay in the game more is the content is generated, upgraded and focused at them. If CCP put half as much effort into PVE (APOCRYPHA) they would be growing again.


Anyone else get a good laugh at the pathetic themepark mentality these two sentences show?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2112 - 2015-07-15 12:32:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
but the reason PVPrs stay in the game more is the content is generated, upgraded and focused at them. If CCP put half as much effort into PVE (APOCRYPHA) they would be growing again.


Anyone else get a good laugh at the pathetic themepark mentality these two sentences show?



But yet somehow getting rid of "safe" parts of the game or "safe" mechanics to give you more and easier victims isn't theme-parking?

My lord, it is as if we have discovered the very definition of hypocrisy.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2113 - 2015-07-15 12:35:18 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

But yet somehow getting rid of "safe" parts of the game or "safe" mechanics to give you more and easier victims isn't theme-parking?


I wasn't aware that highsec would only get less safe for people who aren't me. It's almost like game mechanics changes effect everyone equally.


Quote:

My lord, it is as if we have discovered the very definition of hypocrisy.


You're really grasping. Desperate to try and apply some label, hmm?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2114 - 2015-07-15 12:37:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

You're really grasping. Desperate to try and apply some label, hmm?


Brought to you by the guy introducing the word Themepark into the discussion. Now that is IRONIC

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#2115 - 2015-07-15 12:37:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I was listening to Fozzie on EN24 saying that the fall off in numbers was from hisec, so Kaurous, Baaldor and Jenn a'Side there you go proof what I said.

EVE is losing a lot of people in hisec so CCP needs to do some challenging group play stuff in hisec fast and you three plonkers should now go and chew on the humble pie.


Chew on humble pie because people who are so pitiful that that can't play a game without restricting themselves to the safest 13.5 percent of it (High sec) stop playing?
In the words of every Brit I've ever heard on comms , "Not bloody likely mate". Maybe this is why these forms have seemed a fraction less whiny in the past few months lol.

The bolded part is a "tell" like in a game of poker, ie it 'tells' you how the person thinks. In this case, it's advantage seeking behavior, because obviously, the thing that will 'fix' high sec just so happen to be the thing that Dracvlad wants to happen for his own personal reasons.

Sorry, Incursions (including scout incursions that can be done with a few friends) and Cosmos static plexes already exist. If it were lack of group content causing anything, those things would have to not exist 1st, but they do.


The real story here is that CCP's moves toward player control of things (starting with things like the pocos and the coming new structures) is slowly chasing away the NPC gameplay dependent themepark players, many of whom are high sec only players. If this is so, this is a very good outcome as far as I'm concerned, because CCP should have never tried to cater to that type of player in the 1st place.

EVE at it's best is a game of human interaction, and some of CCPs past decisons have been anti-human interaction. Those of us who relish human interaction (as in my own case, I PVE but enjoy out maneuvering PVPrs who want to kill me, most of the time anyways) are doing fine, those that don't are hopefully finding for themselves themepark games to their liking somewhere else.


Yeah yeah yeah, my suggestion was something to create fun content for players to play together without having to wait for a clear local and all that rubbish controlled by players playing by not playing, in other words just have simple team fun for casuals. This is just one aspect of a deep malaise including people like you and Kaarous acting as the voice of CCP and CCP letting you do it by not controlling your tame ISD for one.

You two are dinosaurs, always coming out with the same tired old rubbish, simple fact is that in that other thread now locked, you guys said its not true when I said that the main loss was from hisec, and the next day Fozzie says what I said, you can slice and dice this anyway you want, but CCP said it and you people asked me for proof, its there, simple as.

DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE SAID, proof staring you in your fat faces, you, Kaarous and Baaldor have egg on your face which is why you come out shooting with rubbish like this to divert the attention from you being so terribly and embarrassingly wrong.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2116 - 2015-07-15 12:38:45 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

You're really grasping. Desperate to try and apply some label, hmm?


Brought to you by the guy introducing the word Themepark into the discussion. Now that is IRONIC


Mine was accurate. You're sitting here begging for themepark content, even crying about how PvP players get more of CCP's attention. Show some intellectual honesty, and wear the boot. It fits just fine, I can assure you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2117 - 2015-07-15 12:39:15 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Fozzie already said the drop in numbers were from Highsec...

How is this possible? The awox nerf promised tons of new players in highsec... I am confused...


And the old buff to exhumers. And anchor rigs. And being able to fit (tank) freighters. etc etc.

What the "if you just protect people" crowd doesn't ever understand is that this is a video game, and while people my complain about things, at the end of the day, a video game must be compelling. CCP (at the behest of these vocal 'protectionist' types) has been following the wrong path, adding pop ups and guides and safeties and crap. These things provide COMFORT, where as for a game to be compelling it has to induce (conquerable) STRESS.

This is why I always say to these types that their social justice quest to see people like CODE curtailed and diminished by CCP doesn't do anything to CODE, but nerfs the hell our of people like me, PVE minded players who don't want or need CCP hand holding.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2118 - 2015-07-15 12:41:50 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I was listening to Fozzie on EN24 saying that the fall off in numbers was from hisec, so Kaurous, Baaldor and Jenn a'Side there you go proof what I said.

EVE is losing a lot of people in hisec so CCP needs to do some challenging group play stuff in hisec fast and you three plonkers should now go and chew on the humble pie.


Chew on humble pie because people who are so pitiful that that can't play a game without restricting themselves to the safest 13.5 percent of it (High sec) stop playing?
In the words of every Brit I've ever heard on comms , "Not bloody likely mate". Maybe this is why these forms have seemed a fraction less whiny in the past few months lol.

The bolded part is a "tell" like in a game of poker, ie it 'tells' you how the person thinks. In this case, it's advantage seeking behavior, because obviously, the thing that will 'fix' high sec just so happen to be the thing that Dracvlad wants to happen for his own personal reasons.

Sorry, Incursions (including scout incursions that can be done with a few friends) and Cosmos static plexes already exist. If it were lack of group content causing anything, those things would have to not exist 1st, but they do.


The real story here is that CCP's moves toward player control of things (starting with things like the pocos and the coming new structures) is slowly chasing away the NPC gameplay dependent themepark players, many of whom are high sec only players. If this is so, this is a very good outcome as far as I'm concerned, because CCP should have never tried to cater to that type of player in the 1st place.

EVE at it's best is a game of human interaction, and some of CCPs past decisons have been anti-human interaction. Those of us who relish human interaction (as in my own case, I PVE but enjoy out maneuvering PVPrs who want to kill me, most of the time anyways) are doing fine, those that don't are hopefully finding for themselves themepark games to their liking somewhere else.


Yeah yeah yeah, my suggestion was something to create fun content for players to play together without having to wait for a clear local and all that rubbish controlled by players playing by not playing, in other words just have simple team fun for casuals. This is just one aspect of a deep malaise including people like you and Kaarous acting as the voice of CCP and CCP letting you do it by not controlling your tame ISD for one.

You two are dinosaurs, always coming out with the same tired old rubbish, simple fact is that in that other thread now locked, you guys said its not true when I said that the main loss was from hisec, and the next day Fozzie says what I said, you can slice and dice this anyway you want, but CCP said it and you people asked me for proof, its there, simple as.


This is where i start to suspect that you have some out of game issues that causes how you reply. Please post a link to a post of mine where I said any kind of thing about high sec.
Quote:

DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE SAID, proof staring you in your fat faces, you, Kaarous and Baaldor have egg on your face which is why you come out shooting with rubbish like this to divert the attention from you being so terribly and embarrassingly wrong.


Waiting for that link.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2119 - 2015-07-15 12:44:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Fozzie already said the drop in numbers were from Highsec...

How is this possible? The awox nerf promised tons of new players in highsec... I am confused...


And the old buff to exhumers. And anchor rigs. And being able to fit (tank) freighters. etc etc.

What the "if you just protect people" crowd doesn't ever understand is that this is a video game, and while people my complain about things, at the end of the day, a video game must be compelling. CCP (at the behest of these vocal 'protectionist' types) has been following the wrong path, adding pop ups and guides and safeties and crap. These things provide COMFORT, where as for a game to be compelling it has to induce (conquerable) STRESS.

This is why I always say to these types that their social justice quest to see people like CODE curtailed and diminished by CCP doesn't do anything to CODE, but nerfs the hell our of people like me, PVE minded players who don't want or need CCP hand holding.




Ganking is not the reason people are leaving the game from high-sec... it has been said a hundred times but yet you are again picking the wrong argument.

People are leaving the game from PVE areas, high-sec being the largest, because CCP has neglected and ignored meaningful PVE content. Not since Apocrypha have we had PVE content focus, and when we did the numbers soared.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2120 - 2015-07-15 12:46:47 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

You two are dinosaurs


Ooh, ooh! Can I be the Tyrannosaurus? Best dinosaur ever, even if it is associated with Test.


Quote:
you guys said its not true when I said that the main loss was from hisec


No, I said you were talking out of your ass, and I mocked your repeated and noteworthy instances of having done so before. In the time since then you seem to have managed to find something that vaguely resembles what you were talking about, though, so props on that google-fu, grasshopper.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.