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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#801 - 2015-05-19 15:42:25 UTC
Eve is an RTS game where FCs and CEOs try to get other humans playing the game to become NPCs.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#802 - 2015-05-19 15:49:03 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Eve is an RTS game where FCs and CEOs try to get other humans playing the game to become NPCs.


RTS?

But yeah, I see your NPC point, in corp/alliance scale anyway, good add to previously said Cool
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#803 - 2015-05-19 18:13:57 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
this board does not recognise the legitimacy of the triple-dog dare as the phrase is not alliterative

the double-dog dare is sustained and endorsed



It's all fun and games until somebody's tongue is stuck to a flag pole.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#804 - 2015-05-19 18:45:37 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
this board does not recognise the legitimacy of the triple-dog dare as the phrase is not alliterative

the double-dog dare is sustained and endorsed



It's all fun and games until somebody's tongue is stuck to a flag pole.



but when you get your "survey monkey" or "come baack, come baack to eve online" email.

that's ccp saying they already have their tongue stuck on the pole.. they neeeeed players.

fact is most players are getting fed up with needing them.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#805 - 2015-05-19 18:49:34 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#806 - 2015-05-19 18:57:14 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


I haven't unsubbed any either and I still participate with my corp even though we aren't in null anymore. But I'm a Sov null guy (the nomadic "PL" style just ain't for me) no matter how many characters I keep in high sec lol and I'm in watch and wait mode like everyone else. I don't want to join a new corp just to have it all washed a way 2 days after I move in. Hopefully by late June early July everything will come into focus and I can make some moves.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#807 - 2015-05-19 19:37:40 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end.


It totally does.

The EVE playerbase is a 12 year showcase in demonstrating that people should be careful what they wish for.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#808 - 2015-05-19 19:39:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


I haven't unsubbed any either and I still participate with my corp even though we aren't in null anymore. But I'm a Sov null guy (the nomadic "PL" style just ain't for me) no matter how many characters I keep in high sec lol and I'm in watch and wait mode like everyone else. I don't want to join a new corp just to have it all washed a way 2 days after I move in. Hopefully by late June early July everything will come into focus and I can make some moves.


Well then come back to us, sweetie.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#809 - 2015-05-19 20:21:07 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes,which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


LOL, really? Cue me warning about exactly that...

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
...faster releases are a one-shot trick with a limited life span as they have their own downsides, the most notorious being novelty stress.


Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#810 - 2015-05-19 20:36:14 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes,which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


LOL, really? Cue me warning about exactly that...


It ain't rocket science.

Malcanis' quip cuts closer to the problem, in a sense. The problem is, given that CCP chased after ~awesome~ while its shipping game stagnated, and given that their development methodology was staggeringly bad at the same time, and given that the game rather miraculously hummed along through that period, even through the Summer of RAEG, what else would you have them do?

It's not CCP Seagull's fault that she had to kick development into ludicrous speed, cramming 12 years of iteration into the game as quickly as possible in order to drag it into the current decade, nor is it the fault of the guy who kicked the rebuilding off with Crucible.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#811 - 2015-05-19 20:42:48 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

Malcanis' quip cuts closer to the problem, in a sense.


It's my third most irritating trait

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#812 - 2015-05-19 23:29:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


I haven't unsubbed any either and I still participate with my corp even though we aren't in null anymore. But I'm a Sov null guy (the nomadic "PL" style just ain't for me) no matter how many characters I keep in high sec lol and I'm in watch and wait mode like everyone else. I don't want to join a new corp just to have it all washed a way 2 days after I move in. Hopefully by late June early July everything will come into focus and I can make some moves.

Malcanis posted a nice sov map a few pages back.
Use it to find an alliance, choose wisely and you risk little as far having it all washed away.
The only thing facing the blue armies with the coming changes is how long it takes for stagnancy to return. There is no risk to their holdings, so any and all content gained from the coming changes is dependent on how many and for how long, new groups are prepared to be stomped by, blue armies.

The biggest issue for CCP as far as sov mechanics goes; Sov content is controlled by a "development team" who don't work for CCP.
Unlike CCP they have little to lose by continuing along their current path of development.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#813 - 2015-05-20 00:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring

I wonder how many accounts this is true of?
I am saving up ISK and training relevant skills as a contingency to go live in a worm hole.
I think these SOV changes will be boneheaded.
Aza Ebanu wrote:
... and CCP did not design the game to center around predator/prey mechanics as much, you'd have more player engagement.
Yes, I advocate ideas that allow miners to make a stand ... or be held hostage in a belt so more battles take place.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#814 - 2015-05-20 05:44:46 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


I haven't unsubbed any either and I still participate with my corp even though we aren't in null anymore. But I'm a Sov null guy (the nomadic "PL" style just ain't for me) no matter how many characters I keep in high sec lol and I'm in watch and wait mode like everyone else. I don't want to join a new corp just to have it all washed a way 2 days after I move in. Hopefully by late June early July everything will come into focus and I can make some moves.

Malcanis posted a nice sov map a few pages back.
Use it to find an alliance, choose wisely and you risk little as far having it all washed away.
The only thing facing the blue armies with the coming changes is how long it takes for stagnancy to return. There is no risk to their holdings, so any and all content gained from the coming changes is dependent on how many and for how long, new groups are prepared to be stomped by, blue armies.

The biggest issue for CCP as far as sov mechanics goes; Sov content is controlled by a "development team" who don't work for CCP.
Unlike CCP they have little to lose by continuing along their current path of development.



It's a coalition map. Not quite the same.

Compare it to the pre phoebe map.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#815 - 2015-05-20 06:09:50 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Kind of disagree here, according to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility since ED launched 6 months ago, daily average player count has gone down from 36K to 24K last month.

I don't think we have enough data here. Ofc some of players may flown away but number seems to high.
At the same time CCP take care of isboxers. Multiple character training was introduced. Part of player base is waiting for sov changes. I think we have to wait till the end of the year with "online players" number.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#816 - 2015-05-20 06:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Kind of disagree here, according to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility since ED launched 6 months ago, daily average player count has gone down from 36K to 24K last month.

I don't think we have enough data here. Ofc some of players may flown away but number seems to high.
At the same time CCP take care of isboxers. Multiple character training was introduced. Part of player base is waiting for sov changes. I think we have to wait till the end of the year with "online players" number.


Well, EVE took a "big dip" after BRB5-whatever:

Sudnya Jan. 12th 2014 at 19:00 50,569 players online

Sunday Feb. 9th 2014 at 18:00 57,213 players online

Sunday April 27th 2014 at 18:30 43,408 players online

And now it is just digging deeper:

Sunday Jan. 11th 2015 at 19:30 45,583 players online

Sunday Feb. 22nd 2015 at 19:30 43,562 players online

Sunday April 26th 2015 at 18:30 39,938 players online

The best day of the current year was in January, and rather than keep going up to a February peak as all the years before, it kept shrinking. 10% is a good estimate of interannual loss from 2014 to 2015... but remember, 2014 already had lost players compared to 2011's record numbers.

And CCP is doing everything they can to keep us entertained and subscribed. If population keeps going down, there's little things they can do and still haven't tried, and many of them are not the most sensible things to do.

(They could just throw in a hundred new Level 4s and calll back mission runners. That would be pretty effective, but would go against CCP's corporate culture. Thus CCP will rather let the subscriber numbers sink and kill EVE by developing EVE their way, than let any inconvenient realities dictate their development priorities. The elephant in the room is always optional and neglectable... until it stomps you)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#817 - 2015-05-20 08:53:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yea, my null accounts are now hybernating as i wanna see what new sov will bring


I wonder how many accounts this is true of?

I've noticed that there is a steady hum of people asking CCP to slow down a bit with all the changes, which must amuse the bittervets to no end. I haven't let any accounts lapse, but I'll cop to waiting and watching more than I did before, just to see how things like the T3 cruiser rebalance shake out.


I haven't unsubbed any either and I still participate with my corp even though we aren't in null anymore. But I'm a Sov null guy (the nomadic "PL" style just ain't for me) no matter how many characters I keep in high sec lol and I'm in watch and wait mode like everyone else. I don't want to join a new corp just to have it all washed a way 2 days after I move in. Hopefully by late June early July everything will come into focus and I can make some moves.

Malcanis posted a nice sov map a few pages back.
Use it to find an alliance, choose wisely and you risk little as far having it all washed away.
The only thing facing the blue armies with the coming changes is how long it takes for stagnancy to return. There is no risk to their holdings, so any and all content gained from the coming changes is dependent on how many and for how long, new groups are prepared to be stomped by, blue armies.

The biggest issue for CCP as far as sov mechanics goes; Sov content is controlled by a "development team" who don't work for CCP.
Unlike CCP they have little to lose by continuing along their current path of development.



It's a coalition map. Not quite the same.

Compare it to the pre phoebe map.

I'm sorry but if the coalitions don't represent sov, what do they represent?

One coalition controls close to 46% of all sov, the other coalitions control about 50% between them. Leaving 4% or removal of existing established alliances for newcomers. As the new sov mechanics favour existing groups, it doesn't leave much room for new comers.
As the question was in regard to finding a place in nul where your not just going to get steamrolled, a coalition map showing which groups holds space where, is probably the best way to find relatively safe space.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#818 - 2015-05-20 09:21:19 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
They could just throw in a hundred new Level 4s and calll back mission runners. That would be pretty effective, but would go against CCP's corporate culture. Thus CCP will rather let the subscriber numbers sink and kill EVE by developing EVE their way, than let any inconvenient realities dictate their development priorities.

Most of all CCP building direct and indirect PvP game. I always thought that healthy PvE is good basis for PvP. I will use statistics from your signature:

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...

Let's say 20% of players actively PvP (combat). It's around 30k players online now. So about 6k players PvP. Most of new players starts with PvE in hisec, doing missions. It's boring so they don't stay enough time to PvP and leave. Let's assume PvE is fun enough to keep players in the game. Now, percentege of PvPers do not change much, i think it's constant 20%-30% of all players.
I think we can assume 100k online with entertaining PvE. 30% from 100k is a fine number.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#819 - 2015-05-20 09:28:16 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


It's a coalition map. Not quite the same.

Compare it to the pre phoebe map.

I'm sorry but if the coalitions don't represent sov, what do they represent?

One coalition controls close to 46% of all sov, the other coalitions control about 50% between them. Leaving 4% or removal of existing established alliances for newcomers. As the new sov mechanics favour existing groups, it doesn't leave much room for new comers.
As the question was in regard to finding a place in nul where your not just going to get steamrolled, a coalition map showing which groups holds space where, is probably the best way to find relatively safe space.


You are reading the map wrong. The after Phoebe coalition map is far more splintered than the before Phoebe map, which is one of the goals of the sov changes. I would conclude from it CCP is actually right on the mark so far. according reaching their goals.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#820 - 2015-05-20 09:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


It's a coalition map. Not quite the same.

Compare it to the pre phoebe map.

I'm sorry but if the coalitions don't represent sov, what do they represent?

One coalition controls close to 46% of all sov, the other coalitions control about 50% between them. Leaving 4% or removal of existing established alliances for newcomers. As the new sov mechanics favour existing groups, it doesn't leave much room for new comers.
As the question was in regard to finding a place in nul where your not just going to get steamrolled, a coalition map showing which groups holds space where, is probably the best way to find relatively safe space.


You are reading the map wrong. The after Phoebe coalition map is far more splintered than the before Phoebe map, which is one of the goals of the sov changes. I would conclude from it CCP is actually right on the mark so far. according reaching their goals.

Actually the coalition map that was linked IS the current map..

But by all means, I'd be happy to see where the coalitions are splintered if you'd be prepared to show me. Maybe I missed something among the blobs of solid colour from 1 side of the map to the other.

To save you looking - Is what it looks like

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.