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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Speedkermit Damo
Invicta.
#821 - 2015-05-20 10:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I'm sorry but if the coalitions don't represent sov, what do they represent?

One coalition controls close to 46% of all sov, the other coalitions control about 50% between them. Leaving 4% or removal of existing established alliances for newcomers. As the new sov mechanics favour existing groups, it doesn't leave much room for new comers.
As the question was in regard to finding a place in nul where your not just going to get steamrolled, a coalition map showing which groups holds space where, is probably the best way to find relatively safe space.


Once NIPs are factored in the coalition map doesn't look so healthy.

That's not to say a lot more stuff isnt happening than before, but then it could hardly have got much worse. Plenty going on in the south nowadays, but nothing of note has happened in the north for years.

My hunch is that we still have the same number of actual players logging in, but with far fewer alts. A lot of people I know have been selling characters.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Solecist Project
#822 - 2015-05-20 10:37:31 UTC
Sheesh I finally realised a NIP is a Non Invasion Pact !
And a NAP is a Non Aggression Pact!

Woohoo !

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Anthar Thebess
#823 - 2015-05-20 10:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Problem is about getting sometimes to places where new groups can grow.
When new group sells itself to a larger organization at the beginning it will determine how they will grow later - more "blue" better.

In order to brake this thing, CCP must do some drastic changes to eve map.

1. New gate connections needs to be made to big NPC spaces that are missing them.
- So Venal / Stain even Ore sectors. New groups needs to have possibility to move in and make basic logistics.

2. More connections to Sov space all around the eve.
- Connecting some dead end pockets to NPC space will make stuff more interesting , and bigger groups will need to more focus on systems they really want to keep.

3. All systems containing NPC build stations within sov should become NPC systems - after the "citadel" changes those stations should be left alone.
- New players will have possibility to keep their assets secure. Without this , big blocks will just wait a week for a new group to move in and then just burn it to the ground.

4. Higsec agents in NPC null space. Standings for local pirate groups is usually wasted for new guys from higsec. It is better to do higsec missions than do belts. Only noobships people get for nothing. Rest cost isk.

5. First character on account should get predefined skill scheme , so new people can actually do something, rather than wait , and wait.
When person come to a game it is looking for fun NOW , not after 2-3 months of training.
Solecist Project
#824 - 2015-05-20 10:47:35 UTC
"to break this" ... what exactly? Recruitment ?

Good luck with the goons swarming other games ...
... to gather members for their Imperium.

Break this. lol. If small groups want to join the big group ...
... then they should. It's natural and not everyone is destined to own space.

Your ideas are horrible.
Predefined skill scheme ... sheesh .........

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Anthar Thebess
#825 - 2015-05-20 11:33:14 UTC
Additionally this game is making more and more expensive.
When i started to play eve battleship hull was from 60-80mil.
Every where people where using T1 battle cruiser hulls , usually drakes , that where cheaper from battleships.
You could lose 5-6 fleet ships and could close your looses easily below 100mil.

Now , T2 on a battlefield is a must.
Battleship cost 160-240mil , and meta have shifted heavily to the more expensive faction versions.

Currently loosing a ship cost you around 150mil.
How new guys can overcome this barrier without extensive farming.

I really miss times when loosing 10 ships one day could be closed within 200mil and not exceed 1bil.

Give us old battlecruisers , and brake neck of those raising prices.
Double or triple amount of minerals you get from mining so miners will not be harmed .
Solecist Project
#826 - 2015-05-20 12:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Additionally this game is making more and more expensive.
When i started to play eve battleship hull was from 60-80mil.
Every where people where using T1 battle cruiser hulls , usually drakes , that where cheaper from battleships.
You could lose 5-6 fleet ships and could close your looses easily below 100mil.

Now , T2 on a battlefield is a must.
Battleship cost 160-240mil , and meta have shifted heavily to the more expensive faction versions.

Currently loosing a ship cost you around 150mil.
How new guys can overcome this barrier without extensive farming.

I really miss times when loosing 10 ships one day could be closed within 200mil and not exceed 1bil.

Give us old battlecruisers , and brake neck of those raising prices.
Double or triple amount of minerals you get from mining so miners will not be harmed .

New guys don't belong in battleships.
Applying your own screwed perspective is nonsense.

You don't even understand how it works. Prices went up over the years,
because there is too much money made too fast and too easily.

That's how it works.
People have money and buy ****. Ofc the mineral changes that made
most hulls more expensive added to it, but that's a necessity when too
many people make too much money in a too easy way.

But in any case, somehow bringing up new players and battleships is nonsense.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#827 - 2015-05-20 12:28:35 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Additionally this game is making more and more expensive.
When i started to play eve battleship hull was from 60-80mil.
Every where people where using T1 battle cruiser hulls , usually drakes , that where cheaper from battleships.
You could lose 5-6 fleet ships and could close your looses easily below 100mil.

Now , T2 on a battlefield is a must.
Battleship cost 160-240mil , and meta have shifted heavily to the more expensive faction versions.

Currently loosing a ship cost you around 150mil.
How new guys can overcome this barrier without extensive farming.

I really miss times when loosing 10 ships one day could be closed within 200mil and not exceed 1bil.

Give us old battlecruisers , and brake neck of those raising prices.
Double or triple amount of minerals you get from mining so miners will not be harmed .


What you are forgetting here is that 'new guys' can make WAY more isk now than ever before.

When i started you couldn't jump in to faction warfare (it didn't exist yet) with a Stealth Bomber , Caracal or Drake and within a month have enough isk for a Plex and a Super Carrier. Hell, you couldn't even train for a battleships and tech2 guns for 3-4 months and do incursions (they didn't exist then). And you couldn't make a living in null with a cheap battlecruiser living in a system were anomalies respawned on demand (because before Dominion, there was no such thing).

When i started you were lucky to make it into a null corp for the 'pleasure' of sometimes getting to belt rat or do the odd 'naturally spawning' anomaly in null, which other than the buggy "high sec lvl 5 missions", the only way to make more than the 25-30 mil per hour a lvl 4 mission would pay if you knew what you were doing.

A friends of mine brought his work buddy into the game last year, and we guided him to train into a maelstrom. Hit fit it for incursions and got in with a couple incursion groups that didn't care that his was only a 4 month old character. He up graded from that Maelstrom to a Machariel in Three Days (he bought the mach before he could even fly it, he was still training the Gallente skills needed). It took me 3 months in 2008 to earn enough for my 1st Navy Raven playing every night lol.

Making more money means prices go up.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#828 - 2015-05-20 12:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Kind of disagree here, according to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility since ED launched 6 months ago, daily average player count has gone down from 36K to 24K last month.

I don't think we have enough data here. Ofc some of players may flown away but number seems to high.
At the same time CCP take care of isboxers. Multiple character training was introduced. Part of player base is waiting for sov changes. I think we have to wait till the end of the year with "online players" number.


This is exactly the case (no matter how much ole Chunks tries to twist things around to get CCP to take the focus off of PVP, DAMN YOU PVP!!! lol).

I have 11 characters across 4 accounts. In the last few months I've played 3-5 of those regularly. I've been thinking of consolidating down to 2 or 3 accounts.

I had 4 accounts because pre-phoebe EVE let me be self sufficient in null if I had enough cyno/scout alts. Fully half my compliment of characters were or started out as cyno alts. A lot of times I'd leave those alts on so I'd have eyes in transit systems where no real people were active (intel channels don't work if no one is in a system lol). I would use alts as "canarys" ie I would turn the sound on and put the alt on a gate and minimize that client, If i heard a gate activation or shield warning I'd know someone was coming lol.

Now being back in high sec while my null corp twitters around sov null shooting people for lulls in a post phoebe environment that made my old null sec base go from 2 jumps from empire to 7, there just isn't any need for as many alts as i have. Some haven't been logged on in weeks now. Add to that CCP virtually killing Isboxing, multiple character training and the rest and the entire landscape of the game has changed.

It has nothing at all to do with CCP not adding more lvl 4 missions for people too lazy and scared of video game loss to go get better content outside of high sec.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#829 - 2015-05-20 15:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
They could just throw in a hundred new Level 4s and calll back mission runners. That would be pretty effective,
No it wouldn't, because people will document and publicise the exact actions and makeups of the new missions in a matter of days, just as they have done with every other mission in Eve. 3 or 4 months after introduction a majority of those returning missioners will have left again because the content has gotten stale.

You have to take into account the man hours that go into making those missions which could be better spent on fixing all of the stuff that's broken, which incidentally is exactly the course CCP have chosen to take.

Case in point, World of Warcraft. A lot of people who play WoW only play when there's new content to be consumed, then they stop playing until there's some more new content to be consumed.

I'd rather see CCP continue producing something different and turning it into a polished product than be like Blizzard constantly pumping out and charging for new content that is consumed voraciously for a short period and then rapidly becomes stale. Sure it can make a metric shitton of money but it is a self perpetuating cycle that has killed many a game and developer off.

Quote:
but would go against CCP's corporate culture.
Their game, their company, they can take any direction they please. Want more PvE? Go and play a game that concentrates on PvE rather than one which primarily concentrates on PvP where PvE is merely a means to an end.

Quote:
Thus CCP will rather let the subscriber numbers sink and kill EVE by developing EVE their way, than let any inconvenient realities dictate their development priorities.
Off the top off my head..
  • Key broadcasting and the like is no longer allowed, multiboxers aren't finding it as easy to make enough money to maintain multiple accounts as they could before.
  • Multiple character training, people no longer have to maintain multiple accounts to train multiple characters simultaneously.
  • Botters and the like are finding it increasingly hard to automate their money making, added to which CCP are actively hunting them down and banning them.

  • CCP knew that the above would result in a loss in subscribed accounts yet they went ahead anyway, they appear to be prepared to sacrifice subscribed accounts to provide better options for the majority of players without allowing the minority to game the system with unfair advantages provided by automation or key broadcasting.

    I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing, they're not dumb. After all they've managed to keep Eve afloat for more than a decade, which is something of an accomplishment when you consider all of the MMOs that have been born and died during that time.

    Quote:
    The elephant in the room is always optional and neglectable... until it stomps you)
    Your elephant is pink and on parade.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack

    La Rynx
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #830 - 2015-05-20 15:25:37 UTC
    Look at all those marketing and MMO professionals...
    Bear

    There is no easy way to attract and keep new players.
    Whats better? More PvP or more PvE?
    As times go by online games and online gamers are changing.
    The amount ppl who are willing to put a lot of effort into online games is shrinking. The older ones got enough, many of the younger ones have lot of action packed new other toys to play with.


    To get more of this shrinking amount of ppl you have to create incentives to lure them in and an interesting atmosphere to keep them. Ramblings about "Fozzie sov",""highsec nerfs", "miner" and carebear hate are counter productive. The first place to meet players would be the forums, but the atmosphere of "pseudo toughness" and "wannabe-aggro" is not attracting at the least.

    Fun Fact is, that you meet most of the coolest ppl in game and not here.
    P

    Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

    Eve Solecist
    Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
    #831 - 2015-05-20 15:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
    You yourself add a lot to this atmosphere.
    Nothing good though.

    You are exactly one of those wannabetoughguys.
    • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
    Remiel Pollard
    Shock Treatment Ministries
    #832 - 2015-05-20 15:44:33 UTC
    La Rynx wrote:

    Whats better? More PvP or more PvE?


    In a PVP game, PVP of course.

    “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

    Jenn aSide
    Shinigami Miners
    Already Replaced.
    #833 - 2015-05-20 15:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

    Their game, their company, they can take any direction they please. Want more PvE? Go and play a game that concentrates on PvE rather than one which primarily concentrates on PvP where PvE is merely a means to an end.


    "They" don't want more pve, EVE has plenty and most of it goes under utilized. What they want is for CCP to do for them what CCP has proven they aren't good at: they want to be told an interesting story, and be immersed in it. CCP isn't in the business of that, they are in the business of creating a backdrop in which you MAKE an interesting story that others can partake in. Other companies are WAY better at providing the kind of episodic content these types crave (I play Star Trek Online too and they have actual EPISODES, not to mention "the Foundry" that lets you create your own missions).

    No, the fact that what they are looking for is available elsewhere AND the company that makes EVE has a very poor record when it comes to creating such "content" doesn't matter to them, because being realistic isn't a part of their make up.

    They are literally like a Vegan who goes into a Steak House (and KNOWS it's a steak house because ti says STEAK HOUSE in huge letters outside, as if the smell of cooked beef wasn't enough of a clue) and then complains about all the dead cow being slung about the place... and why is there no Tofu options on the menu?

    ...Because it's a freaking STEAK HOUSE that's why. If they didn't like Steak (pvp) why in hell did they chose to walk into a Steak House (EVE Online)?
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #834 - 2015-05-20 16:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    Jenn aSide wrote:
    "They" don't want more pve, EVE has plenty and most of it goes under utilized. What they want is for CCP to do for them what CCP has proven they aren't good at: they want to be told an interesting story, and be immersed in it. CCP isn't in the business of that, they are in the business of creating a backdrop in which you MAKE an interesting story that others can partake in.
    I agree, especially the last part.

    "They" don't get the idea of a sandbox, most other games give a structured story, cast you as a hero, feed you content and give you cookies, all of which are the antithesis of a sandbox.

    Eve does none of those things and even steals your cookie then laughs at you for bringing it.

    Icanchuck, and the "majority" they claim to represent, fail to recognise that other players are the ones who provide the heroes, the villains, the content and the stories; and that we, the players, can involve others whether they want to participate or not.

    The story in Eve is not determined by CCP or the PvE content they provide, it is constantly evolving because it is written by us using the tools we're given.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack

    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #835 - 2015-05-20 16:38:21 UTC
    Solecist Project wrote:
    Sheesh I finally realised a NIP is a Non Invasion Pact !
    And a NAP is a Non Aggression Pact!

    Woohoo !


    Temporary NAPs used to be ze thing, before formal alliances system, and even for a considerable period afterwards. P

    NAP in essence is a +10 standing to one-another, and with enough of these you have a... Coalition.

    Anyone wants a donut?
    La Rynx
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #836 - 2015-05-20 16:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
    Remiel Pollard wrote:
    La Rynx wrote:

    Whats better? More PvP or more PvE?


    In a PVP game, PVP of course.


    To bad for you: EvE is not just a PvP game.
    Cool

    Eve Solecist wrote:
    You yourself add a lot to this atmosphere.
    Nothing good though.

    You are exactly one of those wannabetoughguys.


    I poked at a direction and you answered.
    Says a lot.
    Bear

    Well thats what happens a lot in EvE GD Forum.
    Bashing but no discussion culture. And avoiding the obvious, since the posters do not like it.

    Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

    Paranoid Loyd
    #837 - 2015-05-20 16:44:37 UTC
    Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
    Solecist Project wrote:
    Sheesh I finally realised a NIP is a Non Invasion Pact !
    And a NAP is a Non Aggression Pact!

    Woohoo !


    Temporary NAPs used to be ze thing, before formal alliances system, and even for a considerable period afterwards. P

    NAP in essence is a +10 standing to one-another, and with enough of these you have a... Coalition.

    Anyone wants a donut?

    I need a nap, I'm sleepy.

    "There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

    Fix the Prospect!

    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #838 - 2015-05-20 16:46:34 UTC
    Paranoid Loyd wrote:
    Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
    Solecist Project wrote:
    Sheesh I finally realised a NIP is a Non Invasion Pact !
    And a NAP is a Non Aggression Pact!

    Woohoo !


    Temporary NAPs used to be ze thing, before formal alliances system, and even for a considerable period afterwards. P

    NAP in essence is a +10 standing to one-another, and with enough of these you have a... Coalition.

    Anyone wants a donut?

    I need a nap, I'm sleepy.


    We all are.

    A donut, though, perhaps? They're plentiful, crumbly tho, and somewhat salty.
    Vimsy Vortis
    Shoulda Checked Local
    Break-A-Wish Foundation
    #839 - 2015-05-20 16:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
    La Rynx wrote:
    Look at all those marketing and MMO professionals...
    Bear

    There is no easy way to attract and keep new players.
    Whats better? More PvP or more PvE?]

    PvE and PVP are not inherently separate things. Apocrypha, which is widely considered one of EVEs best expansions introduced wormholes. Wormholes and the stuff in them was essentially just new PVE and industrial content with no specific pvp mechanics associated with it. However because wormhole space is nullsec it provided new opportunities for PVP gameplay.

    What I am saying is that good content should provide both PVP and PVE gameplay opportunities.
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #840 - 2015-05-20 16:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    La Rynx wrote:
    To bad for you: EvE is not just a PvP game.Cool
    While it may have PvE elements, 90+% of them result in competition with other players, which is in a sense, PvP. I can't think of one that doesn't TBH.

    New Player FAQ, page 21 wrote:
    Furthermore, as we mentioned previously, once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept. In the asteroid field you’re competing with other pilots to obtain resources; you may also have to defend against ore thieves. On the market you battle for control of the economy in certain areas; for the supply and demand of your products versus other aspiring tycoons. On the battlefield you may fight for glory, for money, or for the right to rule whole areas of space. (emphasis mine)

    You're correct at first glance, but when you delve into the nuances of it even the PvE is thinly disguised PvP.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack