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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#441 - 2015-05-01 23:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:


what you forget is that EVE isn't just about null or you!
remember them ships you buy didn't just fecking pop out of thin air.
(well they did i know i know lol but you get me) someone built them.

you've so much isk you could never spend it all, what a pile of donkey shite lol
what is it with you blowing things way over the top. man just stop it.. lol

but hey if ya have that much isk doing feck all >>>> http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/plex-for-good-nepal

how the hell can you say EVE should not be about empire builders ? that's just Lol
your view on things is beyond belief, what the hell do you want ? lol

one minute you're whining about the game becoming nothing but faction warfare and timer battles to suit a few, grief city for all,,,,, then you whine about empires and it's leaders and how they control everything. but dont; want change that might help change that, if even a little, but time will tell.

you've grown bored of the game,,, you've burned out,,, it happens to the best fo us.... but ffs stop trying to drag everyone into your frame of mind. new guys are reading this and thinking to themselves what the hell is this guy going on about,, no content????

you keep going on about your play sytle being lost.

go ahead and explain your play style to everyone.

i'm still advising you to take a fecking break and keep in touch.

now before you answer me,,,, take a deep breath,,, count to feckin 20 and don't assume anything.. Big smile


I thought you would have a better grasp on how eve currently works. I know it is not just about me but I am the most important person in my opinion and am allowed to express my views. If you don't like my views you are free to unsubscribe from the thread, I nor anyone else is forcing you to follow it or to agree with me. Just don't bother trying to tell me it would be better if I just give up and leave.

Nulsec is the primary driving force behind keeping eve alive. Maybe that is wrong but is how it works.
Every manufacturer, miner and many others rely on nulsec residents to make their isk. Either directly or indirectly.

Manufacturers rely on products only available from the large coalitions to do their manufacturing. Every highsec miner in some way relies on nulsec residents (at this time mainly a few giant coalitions) for their income to play the game. Even the mission runner who sells his loot is in a way relying on nulsec. Imagine - No-one from nulsec brings raw materials or faction blueprints or whatever else they bring to sell in highsec. Then add, they aren't buying products from the highsec markets hubs either.

The main reason there is so little content in nulsec is due to the large coalitions, this has a roll on affect to the rest of TQ. Look at some market history, see when prices were at their highest and what was happening in EVE (not just Jita where the market is) and you will find, market highs and lows correspond closely with wars in nulsec.

CCP left JF's with less fatigue and longer jump range for 2 reasons - 1. So nulsec alliances had viable transport to allow selling of products and purchasing what they can't produce locally. 2. So the highsec manufacturing industry didn't die due to lack of customers and products to manufacturer with.

Turning Sov Wars into nothing more than mini games revolving around a new module in set 4 hour periods each day shows a lack of creativity on the part of Devs. They state they want to decrease mass fleet grinding, then introduce a module that is designed to grind in a series of mini games which will be won or lost by numbers in fleet.
FW 2.0 is replacing Sov Wars. Just on a larger scale with far less rewards.

Yes currently I am bored as hell simply because there is no real content. Existing content drivers have been manipulated by nulsec empire builders and the proposed changes do nothing to change that. As long as there are giant coalitions running nulsec, there will be no real conflict simply because the conflict drivers favour large groups of players. Who have too much to lose by actually going to war.

My preferred play style - Sov Wars, battles in big ships, small gangs roaming around looking for fights, fighting for something meaningful not destroying something just for the sake of it or so someone else can benefit from it. Not fighting because X alliance can't defend their space so because you are part of the coalition you HAVE TO go and help them.
I say screw them all. Scrap coalitions and armies of blues. If an alliance can't hold their chosen place to live without having to call in thousands of allies - They don't frekin deserve the space. Blue status should ONLY be for trade and logistics.

CCP is turning the giant renter networks (which are bad) into a game of extortion and threats. The ruling bodies may choose to continue to call it rent but reality will be far closer to blackmail and extortion. Some of the renter alliances will be absorbed into existing coalitions because they are useful to the empire builders, which only strengthens their hold on sov space and in part, the rest of eve.

I'm not trying to "win" people over to my way of thinking and if some rookie reads this and leaves the game over my comments, he really didn't belong here anyway, did he.
Eve is about achieving what you want by any means at your disposal - I am powerless to initiate real change as an individual but via the forums I can attempt to find support from others who feel as I do and get the attention of CCP in the hope they may consider taking the hard line and really reviving nulsec and therefore, eve as a whole.

PS; the link you posted - 500 Server Error; Why do you presume I didn't donate?
Why do you presume and call me a liar? DON"T presume to know what you have no idea about. That Donkey shite, just landed on your face.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#442 - 2015-05-02 00:12:44 UTC
ADVAC wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
ADVAC wrote:
... You have removed learning skills, wich is great. Now, remove the rest of the useless skill system.
Learn to prioritise skills.

Your idea would mean cookie cutter fleets with perfect compositions. Limitations require some lateral thinking an planning. Your immediate gratification demands mark you as either a WoW refugee or a troll.
OMFG, still after over ten years same old same old?
You know, it's WoT nowadays, not WoW.
It will always be Waste of Web because it was the first MMO to be popular by running on almost any machine and could be played by any sub-average intellect.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#443 - 2015-05-02 00:19:52 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:


PS; the link you posted - 500 Server Error; Why do you presume I didn't donate?
Why do you presume and call me a liar? DON"T presume to know what you have no idea about. That Donkey shite, just landed on your face.


i didn't assume anything,, i suggested,,, you assumed,, again Roll

all of these things you claim to love are still there, i can get you into a null alliance that's looking for bored guys like you. something to fight for you say. what's better to fight for but your mates.

you're bored man,, i can do nothing but offer you advice or help, but you seem hell bent on EVE is dead or about to die because you think so..

sorry for the bad link,, my bad.

you know well where you earned that isk you claim to have so much of and maybe just maybe it's one of the reasons you don't have 10 accounts anymore.. one of your main play styles that's been stolen from you.
is this the true reason man ? i'm not assuming anything,, i'm asking you.

or is it just as simple as not being able to sit in a super hot dropping ?

because there is plenty of small fights and roams and pvp like actions out there. all that's cut back is supers..
you've already admitted to not being in a fleet for over a year,, so i don't know man.. sounds like burn out to me,, with a side dressing of whine.

take a break for a while,, you're just ranting on about how it's too late,, nothing can be done,,,, we may as well all go home..

Goons won EVE... do you know how many times i've heard that bullshite the last 8 years?
anyway i'm done on this thread., i'm gonna leave ya with lets just agree to disagree.
best of luck to ya man, o/
Inora Sera
Sera's Varangians
#444 - 2015-05-02 00:33:54 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:




My preferred play style - Sov Wars, battles in big ships, small gangs roaming around looking for fights, fighting for something meaningful not destroying something just for the sake of it or so someone else can benefit from it.



Simple question, that's pretty much the Providence play style you're describing, ever thought of joining them instead of quitting ?



Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It will always be Waste of Web because it was the first MMO to be popular by running on almost any machine and could be played by any sub-average intellect.


Pretty sure Ultima Online was around for like 7 years before WoW and it was also a hugely popular MMO that could run on anything.

Kids these days...


Jenshae Chiroptera
#445 - 2015-05-02 00:41:36 UTC
Inora Sera wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It will always be Waste of Web because it was the first MMO to be popular by running on almost any machine and could be played by any sub-average intellect.
Pretty sure Ultima Online was around for like 7 years before WoW and it was also a hugely popular MMO that could run on anything.

Kids these days...
Ultima, Anarchy, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, plenty of games that required some intellect or social skills to move forward and pre-date Waste of Web.
The top complaint about Ultima is that it was dumbed down and made carebear friendly, the PVP anywhere was removed.

By the way, you can still get Blockout, kid. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Violet Crumble
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#446 - 2015-05-02 00:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP left JF's with less fatigue and longer jump range for 2 reasons - 1. So nulsec alliances had viable transport to allow selling of products and purchasing what they can't produce locally. 2. So the highsec manufacturing industry didn't die due to lack of customers and products to manufacturer with.

As a nullsec living JF pilot, my understanding is a bit different. From the Phoebe Travel Change Update devblog:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ships in the following groups gain a 90% reduction to effective distance traveled: industrial, blockade runner, deep space transport, freighter, industrial command ship, capital industrial ship, jump freighter.
This eases the impact of these changes on alliance logistics for the time being. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.


This came about after feedback from players because the 90% reduction wasn't part of the original plan. If I recall correctly, it wasn't to make it easier to shift products between high-null, but simply because null wasn't (isn't) in a position to sustain itself from an industrial perspective.

The initial plan also involved shorter jump ranges for JFs and the longer distances were also introduced following player feedback.

I'm hoping these aren't changed as the fatigue and jump ranges are fine, but I'll just adjust if they are.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime

Jenshae Chiroptera
#447 - 2015-05-02 00:58:15 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#448 - 2015-05-02 02:49:45 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

actually, that would be a wonderful idea to go ahead and give nullsec a kcik and force them to start prepping for the eventual change.

right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#449 - 2015-05-02 03:20:48 UTC
So much hate to a null sec boys! Take your guns and ruin their game by yourself why should ccp do the dirty job for you?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#450 - 2015-05-02 04:25:54 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

actually, that would be a wonderful idea to go ahead and give nullsec a kcik and force them to start prepping for the eventual change.

right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

And who would you think benefit most from forcing self reliance without creating a new balance of power?
Would it possibly be smaller groups trying to establish themselves OR the few dominating groups who already control such large expanses of space.

Infrastructure or lack of, is a minor component of self sustainability in nulsec. Availability of materials needed to support an alliance has far more impact than lack of a pos or station.
The introduction of Fozzie Sov will see infrastructure become more of a barrier to smaller unaligned groups as it will so easily be destroyed by the nearest coalition. For now though, there is always the trips to highsec to keep you in what you need.



CCP re-balancing ore levels in nulsec does little toward creating a self sustaining environment , unless every is content to fly T1 ships fitted with T1 modules. T2 production is the largest barrier to self sufficiency in nulsec and cannot be addressed by increasing ore mining yields or reducing bonuses on JF's.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Violet Crumble
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2015-05-02 04:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

Why?

What's the logic for such a seemingly arbitrary approach?

Wouldn't it be better to make evidence based decisions, where if CCP do still plan to remove those bonuses, it is done on the basis of the strength of nullsec industry; and tied into the reason for introducing it in the first place?

For the role of black ops, how does nerfing their black ops capability assist with them being functional in the game? It's not blackops projection that was the reason for introducing jump restrictions.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime

Violet Crumble
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#452 - 2015-05-02 04:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

Sorry, but I don't quite see the logic in this one.

I can claim till I'm black and blue in the face that I'm not wearing a green top, but you can easily look at my portrait and see that I am.

Same with nullsec industry. I (as a nullsec industrialist) could continue to scream till I'm black and blue in the face that I can't sustain myself, but all CCP needs to do is look at the metrics and see how much research, invention, copying and manufacturing is being done in null (and the trends caused by changes in the game) to tell whether my perspective is real or not.

As long as CCP are in a position to understand the data they collect, the evidence of activity is a much stronger indicator than what any of us say.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#453 - 2015-05-02 04:57:41 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

Sorry, but I don't quite see the logic in this one.

I can claim till I'm black and blue in the face that I'm not wearing a green top, but you can easily look at my portrait and see that I am.

Same with nullsec industry. I (as a nullsec industrialist) could continue to scream till I'm black and blue in the face that I can't sustain myself, but all CCP needs to do is look at the metrics and see how much research, invention, copying and manufacturing is being done in null (and the trends caused by changes in the game) to tell whether my perspective is real or not.

As long as CCP are in a position to understand the data they collect, the evidence of activity is a much stronger indicator than what any of us say.

but trusting CCP to always make the best chocie when presented the option between what the data says and what the loudest whiners want doesnt always pan out too well
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#454 - 2015-05-02 08:03:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

actually, that would be a wonderful idea to go ahead and give nullsec a kcik and force them to start prepping for the eventual change.

right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

And who would you think benefit most from forcing self reliance without creating a new balance of power?
Would it possibly be smaller groups trying to establish themselves OR the few dominating groups who already control such large expanses of space.

Infrastructure or lack of, is a minor component of self sustainability in nulsec. Availability of materials needed to support an alliance has far more impact than lack of a pos or station.
The introduction of Fozzie Sov will see infrastructure become more of a barrier to smaller unaligned groups as it will so easily be destroyed by the nearest coalition. For now though, there is always the trips to highsec to keep you in what you need.



CCP re-balancing ore levels in nulsec does little toward creating a self sustaining environment , unless every is content to fly T1 ships fitted with T1 modules. T2 production is the largest barrier to self sufficiency in nulsec and cannot be addressed by increasing ore mining yields or reducing bonuses on JF's.


I think the phease you're looking for is "necessary, but not sufficient"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#455 - 2015-05-02 08:18:24 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

Sorry, but I don't quite see the logic in this one.

I can claim till I'm black and blue in the face that I'm not wearing a green top, but you can easily look at my portrait and see that I am.

Same with nullsec industry. I (as a nullsec industrialist) could continue to scream till I'm black and blue in the face that I can't sustain myself, but all CCP needs to do is look at the metrics and see how much research, invention, copying and manufacturing is being done in null (and the trends caused by changes in the game) to tell whether my perspective is real or not.

As long as CCP are in a position to understand the data they collect, the evidence of activity is a much stronger indicator than what any of us say.

Nulsec industry is nowhere near self sustainable at an alliance level, it isn't even viable for a large corp.

Yes there is a lot more industry happening in nulsec due to changes but that does not make it (self) sustainable, without access to materials, which generally requires a trip to highsec.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#456 - 2015-05-02 08:46:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
. We would like to remove these bonuses in future, but we don’t feel nullsec industry is in a sufficiently strong place that it would be prudent to do so right now.[/i]
CCP should reduce the bonuses on black ops and industrials by 10% each month.

actually, that would be a wonderful idea to go ahead and give nullsec a kcik and force them to start prepping for the eventual change.

right now, the chances of the JF bonus being removed are low because nullsec can just keep going "but look look, we cant possible sustain ourselves industrially, theres no infrastructure", a gradual nerf would force them to start building up early on so when the eventual changes hit forcing their independence, they wont have any real excuses to try and mitigate their inconvenience from the change (though honestly, they shoulda just cut off the JF cold turkey to start with, woulda at least started a little chaos as people moved to rearrange their holdings to provide reliabel supply lines)

And who would you think benefit most from forcing self reliance without creating a new balance of power?
Would it possibly be smaller groups trying to establish themselves OR the few dominating groups who already control such large expanses of space.

Infrastructure or lack of, is a minor component of self sustainability in nulsec. Availability of materials needed to support an alliance has far more impact than lack of a pos or station.
The introduction of Fozzie Sov will see infrastructure become more of a barrier to smaller unaligned groups as it will so easily be destroyed by the nearest coalition. For now though, there is always the trips to highsec to keep you in what you need.



CCP re-balancing ore levels in nulsec does little toward creating a self sustaining environment , unless every one is content to fly T1 ships fitted with T1 modules. T2 production is the largest barrier to self sufficiency in nulsec and cannot be addressed by increasing ore mining yields or reducing bonuses on JF's.


I think the phease you're looking for is "necessary, but not sufficient"

I think you meant phrase, not phease? As neither "necessary" or "sufficient" are a phrase and I never used the word sufficient, I'm not entirely sure of the reason, in context, for the post.
Did I say something you believe to be untrue?
Is my grammar incorrect, did I use an incorrect word or phrase in context ?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#457 - 2015-05-02 09:31:22 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Nulsec industry is nowhere near self sustainable at an alliance level, it isn't even viable for a large corp.

Yes there is a lot more industry happening in nulsec due to changes but that does not make it (self) sustainable, without access to materials, which generally requires a trip to highsec.

Nullsec has not needed any highsec materials since the change to Outposts which came with the Industry changes.
It is Nullsecs choice to export their local moongoo to high sec then import other goods from highsec also, not a material that only highsec can provide.

Now if Moongoo is an issue, then passive gathering of it as POS needs to go. And die in a horrible fire.
And be replaced by a far more efficient(faster) but interruptible active form of gathering the same materials. Which then allows all moon goo to be in every region because it's pilots in space at risk, not a deathstar POS which requires a significant attack fleet.

And if 'isk/hour' efficiency is the complaint about mining Veld & Scordite in Null from the static belts, get over it, self sufficiency is not always the most efficient way forward on a pure isk basis. So if you want to all rat then buy your trit, put up with importing it. Otherwise go mine it from all your static belts as well as the anoms.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#458 - 2015-05-02 22:20:03 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Nulsec industry is nowhere near self sustainable at an alliance level, it isn't even viable for a large corp.

Yes there is a lot more industry happening in nulsec due to changes but that does not make it (self) sustainable, without access to materials, which generally requires a trip to highsec.

Nullsec has not needed any highsec materials since the change to Outposts which came with the Industry changes.
It is Nullsecs choice to export their local moongoo to high sec then import other goods from highsec also, not a material that only highsec can provide.

Now if Moongoo is an issue, then passive gathering of it as POS needs to go. And die in a horrible fire.
And be replaced by a far more efficient(faster) but interruptible active form of gathering the same materials. Which then allows all moon goo to be in every region because it's pilots in space at risk, not a deathstar POS which requires a significant attack fleet.

And if 'isk/hour' efficiency is the complaint about mining Veld & Scordite in Null from the static belts, get over it, self sufficiency is not always the most efficient way forward on a pure isk basis. So if you want to all rat then buy your trit, put up with importing it. Otherwise go mine it from all your static belts as well as the anoms.

Many in nulsec do rely on highsec for manufacturing materials and always will, unless CCP can somehow ensure every group wanting to live in nulsec has access to all materials needed for manufacturing EVERYTHING in eve. That will never and should never happen. The last thing nulsec needs, is less reason to fight.

As far as moons go, there are the haves (mainly large coalitions) and the have not's (everyone else). Those selling moon goo are selling it because they have way more than they could ever use. Oh and it is worth billions of isk which contributes to alliance upkeep.

Isk p/h efficiency vs risk - It really is not worth it to smaller groups to do, it is more efficient to mine more valuable ore and sell excess in highsec, which is how the system is balanced (the changes to outposts and ore compression enabled easier transport). Veldspar and Scordite in static belts was hardly worth mining - Rocks were too small as a rule and therefore the most boring job in eve was more tedious because you had to micro manage every cycle. Mining Anoms, were good for mining low end ores but even that is now less attractive since the need to scan them was removed. No-one wants to be out mining cheap ore when a gang of bubble immune neuts can land on you in less time than it takes to align your mining barge.

CCP state, No area of space should be completely independent of any other - Trips to (highsec) market hubs are intended and part of CCP's design.

The biggest barrier to self reliant alliances in nulsec is the large coalitions. When you have the majority of limited resources controlled by 2 or 3 mega groups it creates imbalance and stagnation (what we have now). Where as if you had 20 or 30 independent groups of between 5,000 and 15,000 (eg;) resources and conflict for those resources would be more balanced. It would encourage the have not's to go get what they want.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Violet Crumble
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2015-05-03 00:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
but trusting CCP to always make the best chocie when presented the option between what the data says and what the loudest whiners want doesnt always pan out too well

So we should have CCP arbitrarily nerf things for our own self serving purposes before someone else does, because we don't trust them to be objective?

Is that the thrust of what you are saying?

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#460 - 2015-05-05 05:38:04 UTC
Violet Crumble wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
but trusting CCP to always make the best chocie when presented the option between what the data says and what the loudest whiners want doesnt always pan out too well

So we should have CCP arbitrarily nerf things for our own self serving purposes before someone else does, because we don't trust them to be objective?

Is that the thrust of what you are saying?

im just saying never assume CCP will always make the right choice, no one is perfect, thats a given, but a lapse in judgement on their part will effect the game for years to come.

especially since data and choices based on it mean nothing, data and what it means is completely dependent on whos interpreting it, which again, leaves room for some not so good choices if player whining colors a devs PoV