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[Proteus - January] Recon ships

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Bakuhz
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#1241 - 2014-12-20 17:47:37 UTC
My Precious

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#1242 - 2014-12-20 17:50:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Impling that recons are a panacea for low sp toons to escape the tedium of being killed by kiters is so dumb im amazed you said it since recons are not well known for their low sp demands.


Good thing I didn't actually say that. What I said was that if the Chicken Littles are correct and somehow Recons not being unviable somehow ruins kiting, that it's not a bad thing because kiting chokes out the little guy, and discourages people from taking fights.



But recons that can warp in to a plex and create a 180km killzone dont kill new guys?, more than that they come with far less warning.

Pretty sure this is a magnification of your objection to kiting so ill assume you agree with me about ninja recons.


What on earth is wrong with being hunted? That's a great thing, it will let people kill the freaking faction warfare farmers for once since their d-scan bots won't detect combat recons.


Its a hell of a trade off to kill a few 300k isk stabbed farmers. The fact that is your aspiration says quite a lot.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1243 - 2014-12-20 17:51:19 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Just like people complaining about incarna were just pleading for ccp to not add value to the game.


What? Protesting against pay to win/flushing years of dev time on a tech demo has nothing whatsoever to do with ship rebalancing.

Totally incomparable things.

Quote:

The problem is that you seem to want to give feedback on other peoples feedback which makes you come off as a fan boy.


Telling you that the sky isn't falling doesn't exactly qualify anyone as a fanboy. In fact, calling someone a "fanboy" is pretty much the biggest copout that exists in contemporary forum discourse. It's basically saying "I can't stand disagreement so I want to apply a negative label to try and silence them", and it's ******* pathetic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
#1244 - 2014-12-20 17:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Besides, how in the name of Zeus does this "kill solo"?

It buffs solo a fair bit, since you can hunt people wtih Combat Recons now, with some actual potency. Hunting ratters for example just got a lot easier, ditto hunting wormhole bears.


It doesn't kill it, but it's definitely one more coolbro trap I'm going to have to endure, which there are already too many of (carrier drone asist, offgrid links on solo garmurs [as if they needed it], ect.), which is insanely frustrating.

The main problem is if I warp into a plex thinking I'm getting a fairly even fight, there's no course of action I can take against there being a dscan immune recon on the inside of said plex. Furthermore if I'm in a plex and someone warps in on me, theres no warning of the dscan immune recon warping in.

Honestly there's just no downside or balancing point. The covert recons drop cloak on the gate, have a locking delay, and have to fit an extra module in the highs (on top of being inferior in base stats and fitting). Just flat out balance-wise this makes the covert recons nearly 100% inferior in the few cases where they are currently used and gives the combat-recons an unnecessary buff even though they're already the ones that people actually use (at least in low sec).
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1245 - 2014-12-20 17:53:26 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
You start an argument with someone then complain that they are arguing.


The denial and use of defense mechanisms is strong here. I wasn't the one who started the ball rolling by using a derogatory term (fanboy) or claiming that someone else's perspective was invlaid because of killboard stats. That, sir was you.

In any event, this is gonna happen, more so because knowing Rise as we do (and his penchant for sticking to his guns) postings like yours just helped solidify his position. Therefore, thank you Crosi for you help in making D-Scan immune combat recons a reality Twisted

Peace....out...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1246 - 2014-12-20 17:54:11 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

Its a hell of a trade off to kill a few 300k isk stabbed farmers. The fact that is your aspiration says quite a lot.


Nothing of value is being lost, and my range of targets increases considerably. What's not to like?

And yes, I like killing bots, it's why I donate to CODE.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#1247 - 2014-12-20 17:55:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
lots of stuff


Hows that worm fit with the combat probes coming along?

JUSTK is recruiting
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1248 - 2014-12-20 17:57:37 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:

It doesn't kill it, but it's definitely one more coolbro trap I'm going to have to endure, which there are already too many of (carrier drone asist, offgrid links on solo garmurs [as if they needed it], ect.), which is insanely frustrating.


Two of those things almost certainly should not exist.

Viable recons almost certainly should.

Quote:

The main problem is if I warp into a plex thinking I'm getting a fairly even fight, there's no course of action I can take against there being an dscan immune recon on the inside of said plex.


There are several. You just reject them because you think refusing to play an MMO with other people somehow makes you better than other people.

Quote:

Furthermore if I'm in a plex and someone warps in on me, theres no warning of the dscan immune recon warping in.


See the above.

Quote:

Honestly there's just no downside or balancing point.


Yeah, actually there is. It's just "cloak lite", giving you similar functionality while in warp but not on grid. The only major benefit is in fitting, which really doesn't mean much since most ships that fit cloaks do so with a fitting bonus anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
#1249 - 2014-12-20 18:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: hellokittyonline
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:

It doesn't kill it, but it's definitely one more coolbro trap I'm going to have to endure, which there are already too many of (carrier drone asist, offgrid links on solo garmurs [as if they needed it], ect.), which is insanely frustrating.


Two of those things almost certainly should not exist.

Viable recons almost certainly should.

Quote:

The main problem is if I warp into a plex thinking I'm getting a fairly even fight, there's no course of action I can take against there being an dscan immune recon on the inside of said plex.


There are several. You just reject them because you think refusing to play an MMO with other people somehow makes you better than other people.

Quote:

Furthermore if I'm in a plex and someone warps in on me, theres no warning of the dscan immune recon warping in.


See the above.

Quote:

Honestly there's just no downside or balancing point.


Yeah, actually there is. It's just "cloak lite", giving you similar functionality while in warp but not on grid. The only major benefit is in fitting, which really doesn't mean much since most ships that fit cloaks do so with a fitting bonus anyway.


I do actually fly in gangs, albeit small gangs. The main reason I fly solo or in small gangs is because I am looking for a challenge. I like to find challenges where my ability as a PvPer can surmount numbers, however with improper intel, and no way for me or my small gang to gain intel (aside from yet again one of us having a probing alt or *shudders* BEING the probing alt and we generally fly frigs and dessies because we have a lot of newbros so fitting a probe launcher isn't going to happen) it just gives another unneeded advantage to all the coolbros who want to pay to win. Dscan immunity not having some features of the covert cloak is not a downside. It is merely a(n arguably) lesser upside with no downside.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1250 - 2014-12-20 18:13:12 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:

I do actually fly in gangs, albeit small gangs. The main reason I fly solo or in small gangs is because I am looking for a challenge. I however like to find challenges where my ability as a PvPer can surmount numbers, however with improper intel, and no way for me or my small gang to gain intel (aside from yet again one of us having a probing alt or *shudders* BEING the probing alt) it just gives another unneeded advantage to all the coolbros who want to pay to win. Dscan immunity not having some features of the covert cloak is not a downside. It is merely a(n arguably) lesser upside with no downside.


If you fly in gangs then there is no problem. Your scout should have probes and a cloak anyway. Probes negate it's distance advantage, and having eyes on grid with a cloak shows you what's on grid waiting for you. Probes literally take seconds to get the same intel you would have gotten out of d-scan.

So why all the "if you make me get another account I'll unsub and go play something else"?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#1251 - 2014-12-20 18:19:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:

I do actually fly in gangs, albeit small gangs. The main reason I fly solo or in small gangs is because I am looking for a challenge. I however like to find challenges where my ability as a PvPer can surmount numbers, however with improper intel, and no way for me or my small gang to gain intel (aside from yet again one of us having a probing alt or *shudders* BEING the probing alt) it just gives another unneeded advantage to all the coolbros who want to pay to win. Dscan immunity not having some features of the covert cloak is not a downside. It is merely a(n arguably) lesser upside with no downside.


If you fly in gangs then there is no problem. Your scout should have probes and a cloak anyway. Probes negate it's distance advantage, and having eyes on grid with a cloak shows you what's on grid waiting for you. Probes literally take seconds to get the same intel you would have gotten out of d-scan.

So why all the "if you make me get another account I'll unsub and go play something else"?

I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1252 - 2014-12-20 18:20:28 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
lots of stuff


Hows that worm fit with the combat probes coming along?



It came along fine once I installed a "I am not the only person flying" module ie a friend in a ship with combat probes.

Or did I miss the memo from CCP that said you can do everything you want with 1 frigate sized ship and be safe from advanced CRUISERS like Combat Recons?
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
#1253 - 2014-12-20 18:21:09 UTC
Because small gangs do not have the manpower to suffice sacrificing another gun for a covert-ops scanner. Also because not a single PvPer I know out here wants to fly a cov-ops scanner in a PvP roam.

I didn't say that, though I may not have been 100% clear. Here's what I meant. If subbing another account is how CCP expects me to PvP and continues making changes on that notion I will be forced to play a spaceshippewpew game where that is not the case as I cannot afford more than 1 sub.
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
#1254 - 2014-12-20 18:23:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
lots of stuff


Hows that worm fit with the combat probes coming along?



It came along fine once I installed a "I am not the only person flying" module ie a friend in a ship with combat probes.

Or did I miss the memo from CCP that said you can do everything you want with 1 frigate sized ship and be safe from advanced CRUISERS like Combat Recons?

No you missed the memo where CCP said that to have the ability to pick fights intelligently you now need either a scanning alt or one of your friends (who is playing the game for pvp) has to fly around a scan ship instead.
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1255 - 2014-12-20 18:23:56 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:

I do actually fly in gangs, albeit small gangs. The main reason I fly solo or in small gangs is because I am looking for a challenge. I however like to find challenges where my ability as a PvPer can surmount numbers, however with improper intel, and no way for me or my small gang to gain intel (aside from yet again one of us having a probing alt or *shudders* BEING the probing alt) it just gives another unneeded advantage to all the coolbros who want to pay to win. Dscan immunity not having some features of the covert cloak is not a downside. It is merely a(n arguably) lesser upside with no downside.


If you fly in gangs then there is no problem. Your scout should have probes and a cloak anyway. Probes negate it's distance advantage, and having eyes on grid with a cloak shows you what's on grid waiting for you. Probes literally take seconds to get the same intel you would have gotten out of d-scan.

So why all the "if you make me get another account I'll unsub and go play something else"?

I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.


Confessor. Has probes, DPS, can hide in small pieces away from scary recons.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1256 - 2014-12-20 18:24:15 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:

I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.


Devils usually flies less than a dozen people. In our "stream snipe" of Lazarus Telraven the other day, we flew a smaller handful of pilots.

We somehow manage to have scouts and eyes where we need them with little trouble.

But all of your "I shouldn't have to" just exposes how fat and comfortable you've gotten with d-scan providing such perfect intel. Something comes along that bypasses that otherwise perfect trick, and you lot lose your freaking minds.

What is wrong with your attitude? All I can think of for these ships is how much fun I will have hunting people in a Curse.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1257 - 2014-12-20 18:25:35 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:

I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.



Yo Kaarous, notice how these discussions always turn into the same thing whether is miniers whining about ganking or pvp'rs mad about the 'death of solo'? People don't want to have to cooperate with others to achieve their goals and blames CCP for not catering to their anti-social desires.

Funny thing is how those same people look down their noses at people who can actually cooperate with others (null "blobbers", CODE, the organized Wormhole groups, goons, Marmite, RvB etc etc)
hellokittyonline
Hellokitty's Online Adventure
#1258 - 2014-12-20 18:26:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
maCH'EttE wrote:

I swear you must fly in large gangs, cuz your repetitive lip keeps saying, probes, probes, scouts, probes, probe scout, scout with combat probes, combat probes.
you must not have a clue on how small gangs or solo combat works. Some people dont have the luxory of flying in 20+ gangs with links/sout/logi/ecm.
wait let me guess, get a cloaky scout with probes.


Devils usually flies less than a dozen people. In our "stream snipe" of Lazarus Telraven the other day, we flew a smaller handful of pilots.

We somehow manage to have scouts and eyes where we need them with little trouble.

But all of your "I shouldn't have to" just exposes how fat and comfortable you've gotten with d-scan providing such perfect intel. Something comes along that bypasses that otherwise perfect trick, and you lot lose your freaking minds.

What is wrong with your attitude? All I can think of for these ships is how much fun I will have hunting people in a Curse.

Something comes along that bypasses that WITH NO DOWNSIDE and takes the place of its counterpart in every situation where I see it used (in lowsec) when said counterpart was already the lesser used of the two.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1259 - 2014-12-20 18:28:47 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:

Something comes along that bypasses that WITH NO DOWNSIDE and takes the place of its counterpart in every situation where I see it used (in lowsec) when said counterpart was already the lesser used of the two.


With the slight exception of cloak delay, a cov ops cloak is still the superior of the two mechanics.

But let's not even pretend that you're here trying to look out for the cloaked recons. You're here to protect your niche from something that you think might rattle it some, simple as that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1260 - 2014-12-20 18:29:33 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Thus Combat Recons Online.


You know that everytime our ships get changed, EVE is dying, cannot be played anymore, kills everyone, the world ends, everything is impossible, must join goons, hate goons,....

First and foremost I have observed that most of the horror-ideas you have on TQ come from those very threads you were posting in.

So by stating what could happen, you put ideas into everyones heads to prove you right.

If you wouldn't respond nothing would happen or at least not much.

People really don't like to think for themselves and need help for the tinyest things. So what to do?

Yes, look in the forums, look at player videos and do the same thing they are doing.

You should know that the recon changes are the anouncement of the sleeper cruiser change, coming to your client in early 2015 but you cannot see that far ahead.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever